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At_His_Feet
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Most days I drive past a Russian Orthodox church. Should I be making a spiritual communion? Am I right in thinking that we share a belief in the Real Presence?
Thanks, Tricia.
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Tricia
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monica
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i am romanian orthodox, so i could answer from and orthodox perspective, but you should probably check with a catholic believer as to what you should do.
i found the following quote that describes the orthodox view of communion/ Eucharist/ Holy Mysteries. I dont think it is exactly the teachings of aquinas or augustine, but i think the idea is the same. though i am sure you can find theologians who would say otherwise.
the eucharist in the Orthodox Church is understood to be the genuine Body and Blood of Christ precisely because bread and wine are the mysteries and symbols of God's true and genuine presence and manifestation to us in Christ. Thus, by eating and drinking the bread and wine which are mystically consecrated by the Holy Spirit, we have genuine communion with God through Christ who is himself "the bread of life" (Jn 6:34, 41).
I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh (Jn 6:51).
Thus, the bread of the eucharist is Christ's flesh, and Christ's flesh is the eucharistic bread. The two are brought together into one.this site
again, i would check with your priest as i dont really know what a "spiritual communion" is. Though i know here in romania, Orthodox believers make the sign of the cross when passing ANY church, orthodox, catholic or protestant, and when passing by cemeteries, as there is usually a chapel inside.
monica
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Kristie 4
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Unless you have been baptised in the Orthodox Church you would not be able to participate in communion. ( I am pretty sure on this but you could check with your priest...) We have begun this path of Orthodoxy and at present we are unable to take communion as we have not been 'Chrismated' in the Orthodox church.
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Mary G
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While Kristie is right for what her family is doing, it is my understanding that Roman Catholic may receive from an Orthodox Church if that is the only source of Eucharist available. So, for instance, if you are in an Eastern European country where there is no Greek Catholic or Roman Catholic rite, you can attend the Orthodox and receive.
I will double-check with my theologian husband .... who is the real expert in the house 
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Mary G
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Oh and to answer the original query, Tricia, yes, you could do some form of reverence as it is the true presence.
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MaryG
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folklaur
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Mary G wrote:
While Kristie is right for what her family is doing, it is my understanding that Roman Catholic may receive from an Orthodox Church if that is the only source of Eucharist available. So, for instance, if you are in an Eastern European country where there is no Greek Catholic or Roman Catholic rite, you can attend the Orthodox and receive.
I will double-check with my theologian husband .... who is the real expert in the house |
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I am practically positive -that while that is true for us as Roman Catholic, that we can recieve as far as our Church says it is okay - the Orthodox DO NOT feel the same, and would not let us recieve. They do not see as as being able to partake, as they do NOT see us as being in Communion with them, if that makes sense. So while Rome says "yes" - the Orthodox themselves say, "No."
ETA: But yes, the Orthodox absolutly have the True Presence, and valid Sacraments.
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monica
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i think the communion/ eucharist issue has hard and fast doctrines that are left to the priest to interperet. a few weeks ago there was a big controversy here in romania when an orthodox priest took the eucharist at a catholic church during an ecumenical service. lots of outcry from orthodox and a slap on the wrist from the patriarch. but on the other end of the spectrum, we have orthodox friends who were visiting rome and went forward in the catholic church to get a blessing from the priest and ended up taking the blood and body too. they talked to their home priest in amsterdam about this and he just laughed and said not to worry but to receive it as a blessing.
on the catholic side, i once attended a christmas eve mass where in the bulliten, it was written very clearly that the blood and body were only for catholic members to partake of. yet, we have a friend who is a priest that allows protestants and others to take the eucharist at his services, but he himself wont take of it at non catholic services.
as i understand it "spiritual communion" is just fine by both sides, but i dont know the particulars on th at.
oh, how i wish for all these divisions to go away and for us to be able to worship as one unified body.
monica
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JennGM
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cactus mouse wrote:
| ETA: But yes, the Orthodox absolutly have the True Presence, and valid Sacraments. |
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I like the quote from the Catechism, which so beautifully states:
Catechism of the Catholic Church wrote:
838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter." Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church." With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist." |
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Tricia, I had never thought about making a spiritual communion (or the sign of the cross) when passing an Orthodox Church, so I appreciate the question! It's a good reminder. Now do Orthodox Churches keep the Blessed Sacrament in repose?
I did find an answer addressing receiving communion, and I thought I would quote the two first questions from this excellent Knights of Columbus CIS booklet The Eastern Churches by
The Most Reverend Basil H. Losten, Bishop of Stamford (Ukrainian Catholic Church) (emphasis mine):
Quote:
Some Questions
1) Who are Orthodox?
The term Orthodox Christians means Christians who believe the correct Faith and worship God correctly. In the strict sense, all Catholics are Orthodox, and the Catholic Church often uses the word Orthodox in liturgical texts, dogmatic definitions, and other church documents, as well as in popular writings (such as G. K. Chestertons well-known book Orthodoxy). Most Eastern Churches, both those who already are in full communion with the Catholic Church and those who as yet have imperfect communion with the Catholic Church, are attached to the term Orthodox and like to use it.
However, it has become conventional in many places to use this term Orthodox as part of the title of a Church when that Church is not in full communion with the Catholic Church. So, as a rule, a church whose notice-board announces Orthodox Church belongs to one of the Eastern Churches which is not in full communion with the Catholic Church. This does not in the least prevent Catholic clergy from using such expressions as our Orthodox Faith in sermons and so on.
All of the Eastern Churches use the Nicene Creed and profess belief in the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. The word Catholic occurs in any number of places in the liturgical texts of the Eastern Churches, and one will also find the word Catholic in sermons, devotional writings, and catechisms.
Thus these words Catholic and Orthodox remind us that our divisions are contrary to the Holy Will of God, and encourage us to work and pray for the healing of the estrangement which divides the majority of the Eastern Churches from the Universal Catholic Church. In this work the Eastern Catholics have special responsibility, but all Catholics must take part. To this end, the Holy Father urges and exhorts all Catholics to become increasingly better acquainted with the liturgical, spiritual, and theological importance of the Eastern Churches, and thus enjoy the fullness of our common Catholic heritage.
2) Can Latin Catholics attend Eastern Liturgies?
Of course Latin Catholics may attend Eastern Liturgies, and the Catholic Church encourages this practice. Pope Pius XI and the popes since then have exhorted all Latin Catholic schools, seminaries, and religious houses to have a special day every year devoted to learning more about the Eastern Churches. The program of this day usually involves a celebration of the Divine Liturgy in one of the Eastern traditions. A Latin Catholic who attends the Divine Liturgy on Sunday fulfills the obligation of attending Sunday Mass.
If a Latin Catholic attends an Eastern Catholic Divine Liturgy, he or she may receive Holy Communion without any further permission. Simply come forward with the rest of the faithful at the appropriate moment. The Eastern Catholic Churches do not give Holy Communion into the hands of the faithful; the priest gives the Blessed Sacrament directly into the mouth of the communicant.
If a Catholic attends the Divine Liturgy in an Eastern Church not in full communion with the Catholic Church, the Catholic may not normally receive Holy Communion. However, the Catholic Church recognizes that the Eucharist of these Eastern Churches is true and valid. Catholics who are present must adore the Blessed Sacrament and otherwise behave in a manner appropriate for one who attends Mass without receiving Holy Communion.
In the English-speaking countries, parishes of the Eastern Churches tend to be relatively small. They are usually friendly and happy to have visitors. Often there is only one celebration of the Divine Liturgy on Sunday, with a coffee hour at which guests are welcome. If a Latin Catholic group wishes to attend the Divine Liturgy in a body, the Eastern parish will probably be very pleased, but it is well to arrange this with the priest in advance. Usually the priest will provide booklets for the visitors to follow the service, and will be happy to answer questions. |
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So we can fulfill our Sunday Mass obligations with an Liturgy at an Orthodox rite church, but attending those churches that still have imperfect communion with Rome we should not receive communion.
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JennGM
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Sorry, Monica, I think I was cross-posting with you!
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Kristie 4
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From my very little knowledge it is this 'in communion' that is the reason for the inablility to partake of the sacrament.
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JennGM
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And now I'm going to contradict myself, because it says that we can licitly receive these sacraments, in the Code of Canon Law for extreme cases, like Mary said.
Quote:
Can. 844 1. Catholic ministers administer the sacraments licitly to Catholic members of the Christian faithful alone, who likewise receive them licitly from Catholic ministers alone, without prejudice to the prescripts of 2, 3, and 4 of this canon, and Ë can. 861, 2.
2. Whenever necessity requires it or true spiritual advantage suggests it, and provided that danger of error or of indifferentism is avoided, the Christian faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister are permitted to receive the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid.
3. Catholic ministers administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick licitly to members of Eastern Churches which do not have full communion with the Catholic Church if they seek such on their own accord and are properly disposed. This is also valid for members of other Churches which in the judgment of the Apostolic See are in the same condition in regard to the sacraments as these Eastern Churches.
4. If the danger of death is present or if, in the judgment of the diocesan bishop or conference of bishops, some other grave necessity urges it, Catholic ministers administer these same sacraments licitly also to other Christians not having full communion with the Catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and who seek such on their own accord, provided that they manifest Catholic faith in respect to these sacraments and are properly disposed. |
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Mary G
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At_His_Feet wrote:
| Most days I drive past a Russian Orthodox church. Should I be making a spiritual communion? Thanks, Tricia. |
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Tricia, dh (my resident theologian) suggests that whenever we pass an Orthodox Church we should say a prayer both to acknowledge the Sacrament present (altho he's not sure that all the Orthodox churches repose the Sacrament as we do?) and that we should also pray for reunification of the differing churches.
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Mary G wrote:
At_His_Feet wrote:
| Most days I drive past a Russian Orthodox church. Should I be making a spiritual communion? Thanks, Tricia. |
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Tricia, dh (my resident theologian) suggests that whenever we pass an Orthodox Church we should say a prayer both to acknowledge the Sacrament present (altho he's not sure that all the Orthodox churches repose the Sacrament as we do?) and that we should also pray for reunification of the differing churches. |
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This good to know and a wonderful suggestion of praying for reunification! I was wondering about the reposition myself.
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At_His_Feet
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Thanks for all your replies, especially Monica.
Mary G, I'll certainly also pray for reunification.
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Tricia
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At_His_Feet
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My Mum is doing a 3 yr ministry course. At the moment they are looking at the sacraments. Today we had a quick discussion about this. A quick discussion on account of my ds beings so excited to see her! She thought that the orthodox churches have the sacraments in a different order to Roman Catholics. Baptism and confirmation together??? Can anyone here clarify this?
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folklaur
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The Orthodox - and Eastern Rite Catholics, too - have Baptism immediately followed by Chrismation (Confirmation), after which you are eligible to receive the Eucharist - so infants usually get all three, yes.
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Oh Ladies.....I sure wish we were all united.....did you all see the Holy Father with the Patriarch at the Mass on the Feast of St. Peter and Paul at the Vatican? It made me cry, I know we are close, tell me we are close!!!! This topic was THE topic in our house this weekend. We have contemplated going to an Orhtodox church here in town, the liturgies around here leave a lot to be desired. BUT, I can't imagine not taking Holy Communion every Sunday, so that isn't really an option for us. Maybe we will visit...and pray for reunification, soon!!!!!! I really appreciate all who posted the Church's teachings on all of this....very, very helpful.
God Bless you all!!!--what a great topic!!!!
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folklaur
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4 lads mom wrote:
It made me cry, I know we are close, tell me we are close!!!!
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Oh, I wish, so badly, that we were!
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Russian Orthodox Q
