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websterm
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| Posted: June 24 2008 at 3:20pm | IP Logged
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I just want others opinions to see if I am off base. We go to church as a family every weekend. Every other weekend, we have all the kids (we are mixed family from marriages)
My step 4 yr old son, and step 7yr old daughter I feel are not behaving the way I feel children should in church, and not the way I remember my kids acting at that age...but maybe I have forgotten. What do you expect and are those expectations met for your children in mass?
I expect them not to turn around and stare at others - they need to be turned around facing the altar, I expect relative quiet, I don't feel that a 7yr old needs to be trying to hang all over dad. I just want to see if I am expectating more than what is possible. My husband does not disagree with me on this, this is just to satisfy my curiosity. I never want to be the step who expects perfection. Their life with their mom is very different than ours, so we struggle some on the weekends with following rules, being polite...etc..
I appreciate anyones comments!
Marcia
My Thoughts While Learning
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mellyrose
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| Posted: June 24 2008 at 3:44pm | IP Logged
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We expect my boys (ages 6 & 7) to sit quietly, face the altar, not touch each other, and pay attention during mass.
I'm not sure what you mean by "hanging all over" her dad, but my boys don't see a lot of my DH during some weeks and they both tend to lean and hold onto him during mass. It's a quiet time, when he is pretty much THERE for an hour and they crave that touch time with him. Perhaps your step-d needs that from her dad? If my DH isn't holding our youngest, he'll often hold our middle boy on his lap and even hold him while standing.
At 4, my middle boy had a hard time sitting still during mass. (he still does, actually!) He has a small sewing block that I let him work and that helped focus enough to stay still. He doesn't need it so much anymore, but when he was 4, he definitely needed a distraction!
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: June 24 2008 at 3:47pm | IP Logged
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I partly look at the personality of the child.. I can actually expect my 6.5 yr old daughter to sit more still than my 8 yr old daughter.. but my 8 yr old daughter is still *for her* compared to any other time and place 
I would also guess that the 7yr old is just trying to get "enough" of dad. So I would include in rules things like being able to sit close to dad, leaning against him, holding his hand.. and only limit those things that are especially distracting.. trying to climb on his lap for instance.
I would start with the very basics, which is here to learn to be "within their place" (I have some children that simply can't be still they wiggle and jiggle etc but as long as it's confined to their place we overlook lower key stuff.. no waving arms up in the arm or such)
Help your dh set limits on just how they can be close to him while they're at Mass.. not in lap but next to him or holding his hand or whatever works.. but realize they probably are craving the physical contact.
Then a game I've always played with my kids (usualy younger than the 4 yr old but with less practise time I'd let it go on longer) "find the _______" and I'd pick things on and around the alter (candles, red candle, certain color flower, Jesus (this is fun because there's several options.. the crusifix, a picture of the Sacred Heart off to one side, the Eucharist).. but help them find reasons to keep their focus forward.
I mentioned this but also as a stand alone.. when they don't get the practise all the time that I would go with things that are ok for younger children and work from there.. be sure and sit where they can see what's going on.. it's always tempting to want to hide where the rest of the church can't see them misbehaving but they do so much better when they have a good view of what's going on.
I would work with rewards as much as possible.. rewarding (even just by mentioning it) any positive behavior. Have some place special to go or such after Mass on the good days.. stop at a store on the way home and pick up a donut.. doesn't have to be a big expense like going out to breakfast.. just something that kids would look forward to getting to do.
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LLR4
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| Posted: June 24 2008 at 3:48pm | IP Logged
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I don't think your expectations are unreasonable at all!
I don't expect perfection either, but I do have a philosophy that children will only behave as much as you expect them to. I find with my 4 children that although I have pretty high expectations, they are completely capable of rising to the occasion. They just need to have it expected of them.
I have three 5 year olds, and a 10 year old. (the three 5 year olds going on 6, and the 10 y.o. going on 11).
My 5 year olds behave as they are expected at mass >>> they sit, stand, kneel, and respond with everything that they know.....which is pretty much the whole mass, except for all of the Profession of Faith (which is you know is so long). The parts they know, they say. They respond spontaneously to everything just as big people do, and have especially stood, knelt or sat ever since they could. Of course, they have gone to mass since they were born, every week. Consistency is important I think. You go every week without question (as we are expected to as Catholics), and the same expectations apply to every mass. And of course we as adults set the example, as well as the standards.
We don't allow turning around either. On the rare occasion it slips their mind, or they can't resist, I simply whisper "Face to Jesus on the crucifix, always, remember?" No talking or fooling around at all is allowed, and they know and follow that. They can whisper to us if it is important, only.
We do pick this one or that one up if they are trying to see and are unable to because of grown adults in front of them. As long as they pay attention and again, face forward. I know "I" am more all over my kids than they on us. I am just always focused, looking forward, listening intently.....but rubbing someone's back, touching their hair, or patting their hand on my leg. They are just so sweet, I can hardly help myself. And it's habit I guess. If anyone might need some correction, it might be me.
My 10 year old serves most every mass we attend. There is always someone to fill in for, and there is no place in the world she would rather be, then up there serving that mass on that alter.
All in all.....we don't have issues with behavior in mass, but then again, we don't expect to!
In your case, do all of the kids go to mass on the weekends they are not with you? If not, or they have less expectations of them when they are not with you, that is probably making it more difficult. Because again...consistency. But at the same time, as long as you set the expectations (for everything...behavior in general at home out and about, rule following, etc.) as to when they are with you, and be firm about it, that should help a lot. But I sympathize with you -- having 2 homes and having different and opposing expectations/standards at each definitely sets a challenge. I hope anything I said helps or is supportive, but more so, I hope someone in a similar situation can offer their input and what works for them.
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folklaur
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| Posted: June 24 2008 at 3:49pm | IP Logged
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hhhhmmmmm...just some thoughts...feel free to disregard whatever 
Do they attend a Catholic Church on your "off" weekends? Do they attend any church?
Yes, I do think that they should face forward. A 4yo may need to be reminded, especially if this is just something he is doing twice a month (roughly four weeks in a month, two weekends with you - so - approximately jst two morning out of 30 he is expected to behave this way, and so, yes, at 4, he may need reminding.
now, the dd. It is very likely that she hangs on dad as she is trying to assert her place. (Is she still an important girl in his life? Will he still love her if she acts like this? Will he love her just as much as he loves the other girls in his life who he is with all the time, etc?) Not that she is "actively" thinking this...
Girls and their Dads can have special, unique relationships. She may just want to be reassured she is special/important. She may be unsure how to express it.
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graciefaith
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| Posted: June 25 2008 at 1:03pm | IP Logged
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My girls who are almost 7yo and 5.5yo are expected to sit quietly, no playing with each other, no turning around, no talking. They are expected to kneel, stand and sit along with the rest of the congregation. They pretty much can do all this.
Now my 8yo stepson, who does not go to Mass regularly, cannot always do this for a full hour. When we're with him, we just try to work with him on it and i try to be understanding. Now that we're living back in the states, we're going to have a lot more time with him.
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SusanJ
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My older is 3.5 but he is capable of sitting relatively quietly through Mass. He'll often sit on dh's lap and sometimes dh will (very quietly) whisper descriptions of what's going on at the altar or doodle on the program in a way that is entertaining for ds and not distracting for dh. We don't always enforce this good behavior at daily Mass--especially if one of us is also keeping up with our 21mo dd, but ds CAN sit quietly if we expect him to.
Susan
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websterm
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| Posted: June 25 2008 at 1:27pm | IP Logged
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I truly appreciate you ladies giving me your thoughts, thank you so much! The children do not go to mass unless they are home with us. They have had alot of changes over the past 2 years, so I do try to relax on them more than I do the other children. The mass behavior was really getting to me though. I tried to pray especially to Mary during times at mass when I could feel myself getting irrated, but last weekend the thought came to me that maybe praying to Mary was not what was missing, maybe the children needed more from us to prepare them for church.
We are very consistent as far as behavior goes, I think we do a pretty good job at that. As you all pointed out, especially for my 4 yr old - when you do something only 2X a month it is very hard to remember what all you are there to do....I will keep that in the front of my mind.
LLR4 I like "Face to Jesus on the crucifix, always, remember?" I will start using that 
For my daughter, I know there are lots of things she is missing...her dad every day, time with her mom, someon caring, hugging, touching, listening...the list could go on and on. I am a touchy person, so I do tend to pat on the leg, touch her back...maybe I should encourage that more from her dad rather than me though?
Again, I truly truly appreciate you ladies!
Thank you so much!
Marcia
My Thoughts While Learning
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Expectations of kids in church
