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folklaur
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| Posted: Nov 10 2007 at 2:39pm | IP Logged
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I am wondering..and didn't know if someone else might know?
When JPII would talk about the "the other half" of the Church, "the other lung", etc when he spoke about Orthodox and/or Eastern Catholics -- was he talking about those other rites within the Catholic Church that are in communion with Rome (like Byzantine,etc), or was he talking about ALL the Eastern and/or Orthodox Catholics, such as the Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, etc?
Thanks,
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kingvozzo
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| Posted: Nov 10 2007 at 5:44pm | IP Logged
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He was specifically referring to the Eastern Catholics who are in full communion with Rome. Hereis a great website with a ton of info on Eastern Catholicism. The author used to answer Q&A at EWTN's website.
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Noreen
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SusanJ
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| Posted: Nov 10 2007 at 8:16pm | IP Logged
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I asked dh, theologian in residence here, and he's pretty sure JPII was talking about all Eastern Churches--those in full communion with Rome and those who aren't. The Eastern rite churches in communion are a pretty tiny minority and a big focus of the JPII was ecumenism and re-establishing communion with the East.
Noreen have you read something different on this?
Susan
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kingvozzo
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| Posted: Nov 11 2007 at 10:51pm | IP Logged
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Mea culpa... 
I'm finding tons of commentary on the issue, but I can't find which document it's from?
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Noreen
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MaryM
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| Posted: Nov 11 2007 at 11:21pm | IP Logged
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kingvozzo wrote:
| I'm finding tons of commentary on the issue, but I can't find which document it's from? |
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Ut Unum Sint which definitely addresses Eastern Orthodox churches.
In part, the Holy Father wrote in Ut Unum Sint, "Intolerant polemics and controversies have made incompatible assertions out of what was really the result of two different ways of looking at the same reality. Nowadays we need to find the formula which, by capturing the reality in its entirety, will enable us to move beyond partial readings and eliminate false interpretations."
Article 50 reads:
Dialogue with the Churches of the East
50. In this regard, it must first be acknowledged, with particular gratitude to Divine Providence, that our bonds with the Churches of the East, weakened in the course of the centuries, were strengthened through the Second Vatican Council. The observers from these Churches present at the Council, together with representatives of the Churches and Ecclesial Communities of the West, stated publicly, at that very solemn moment for the Catholic Church, their common willingness to seek the re-establishment of communion.
The Council, for its part, considered the Churches of the East with objectivity and deep affection, stressing their ecclesial nature and the real bonds of communion linking them with the Catholic Church. The Decree on Ecumenism points out: "Through the celebration of the Eucharist of the Lord in each of these Churches, the Church of God is built up and grows in stature". It adds, as a consequence, that "although these Churches are separated from us, they possess true sacraments, above all — by apostolic succession — the priesthood and the Eucharist, whereby they are still joined to us in a very close relationship".82
Speaking of the Churches of the East, the Council acknowledged their great liturgical and spiritual tradition, the specific nature of their historical development, the disciplines coming from the earliest times and approved by the Holy Fathers and Ecumenical Councils, and their own particular way of expressing their teaching. The Council made this acknowledgement in the conviction that legitimate diversity is in no way opposed to the Church's unity, but rather enhances her splendour and contributes greatly to the fulfilment of her mission.
The Second Vatican Ecumenical Council wished to base dialogue on the communion which already exists, and it draws attention to the noble reality of the Churches of the East: "Therefore, this Sacred Synod urges all, but especially those who plan to devote themselves to the work of restoring the full communion that is desired between the Eastern Churches and the Catholic Church, to give due consideration to these special aspects of the origin and growth of the Churches of the East, and to the character of the relations which obtained between them and the Roman See before the separation, and to form for themselves a correct evaluation of these facts".83
51. The Council's approach has proved fruitful both for the steady maturing of fraternal relations through the dialogue of charity, and for doctrinal discussion in the framework of the Joint International Commission for the Theological Dialogue between the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church. It has likewise proved most fruitful in relations with the Ancient Churches of the East.
The process has been slow and arduous, yet a source of great joy; and it has been inspiring, for it has led to the gradual rediscovery of brotherhood.
And it's followed by this, in article 54 (which specifically addresses the original question)
In this perspective an expression which I have frequently employed finds its deepest meaning: the Church must breathe with her two lungs! In the first millennium of the history of Christianity, this expression refers primarily to the relationship between Byzantium and Rome. From the time of the Baptism of Rus' it comes to have an even wider application: evangelization spread to a much vaster area, so that it now includes the entire Church. If we then consider that the salvific event which took place on the banks of the Dnieper goes back to a time when the Church in the East and the Church in the West were not divided, we understand clearly that the vision of the full communion to be sought is that of unity in legitimate diversity. This is what I strongly asserted in my Encyclical Epistle Slavorum Apostoli 85 on Saints Cyril and Methodius and in my Apostolic Letter Euntes in Mundum 86 addressed to the faithful of the Catholic Church in commemoration of the Millennium of the Baptism of Kievan Rus'.
And a couple other resources that were recommended on the topic.
Brief article from the Daughters of St. Paul
The text of Orientale Lumen, regarding the Eastern rite Catholic churches
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Mary M. in Denver
Our Domestic Church
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Marcia
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| Posted: Nov 13 2007 at 10:33pm | IP Logged
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Orientale Lumen is worth a read.
Also you will like this priests church. If you ever have a chance to hear this evangelical Byzantine catholic priest talk, it's worth the trip.
Marcia
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JennGM
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I scanned Father Hardon's chapter from Religions of the World on Eastern Orthodoxy. It's excellent and informative readng.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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MaryM
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| Posted: Nov 14 2007 at 12:55pm | IP Logged
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And, interestingly, the topic Monday on the Catholic Answers radio show was "Breathing with Both Lungs." It was very timely to this discussion. You can hear the interview at this link.
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Mary M. in Denver
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JennGM
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| Posted: Nov 14 2007 at 4:58pm | IP Logged
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And Fr. Z had this blog post today, Joint Orthodox-Catholic commission agrees on primacy of Pope but differ on what that means.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Mary G
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| Posted: Nov 14 2007 at 10:08pm | IP Logged
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Must be something in the air -- my parish held a seminar last night about Eastern iconography -- here's my blog post link in case any of you are interested. The symbolism in icons is amazing!
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MaryG
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Mary G
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And just to inundate you with more info, I just saw this on the Vatican's press releases:
Quote:
CATHOLIC-ORTHODOX DOCUMENT ON THE NATURE OF THE CHURCH
VATICAN CITY, NOV 15, 2007 (VIS) - Made public today was the final document of the plenary assembly of the Joint International Commission for Theological Dialogue between the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church. The meeting was held in the Italian city of Ravenna from October 8 to 14 under the presidency of Cardinal Walter Kasper, president of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, and His Excellency Ioannis, metropolitan of Pergamo.
The title of the final document is: "Ecclesiological and Canonical Consequences of the Sacramental Nature of the Church. Ecclesial Communion, Conciliarity and Authority."
Commenting on the 46-paragraph-long text in an interview with Vatican Radio, Cardinal Kasper affirmed that "the document speaks of the tension between authority and conciliarity (or synodality) at the local (i.e., diocesan), regional and universal levels. The important development is that for the first time the Orthodox Churches have said yes, this universal level of the Church exists and also at the universal level there is conciliarity, synodality and authority; this means that there is also a Primate; according to the practice of the ancient Church, the first bishop is the bishop of Rome."
"However," the cardinal continued, "we did not talk of the privileges of the bishop of Rome, we merely indicated the praxis for future debate. This document is a modest first step and as such it gives rise to hope, but we must not exaggerate its importance.
"The next time," added the president of the pontifical council, "we will have to return to the role of the bishop of Rome in the universal Church during the first millennium. Then we must also talk of the second millennium, of Vatican Councils I and II, and this will not be easy; the road is very long and difficult."
The cardinal also commented on the fact that the delegation from the Russian Orthodox Church had abandoned the plenary assembly, explaining that "there was an inter-Orthodox problem over the recognition of the autonomous Church of Estonia" about which Moscow and Constantinople take different views.
"This is an inter-orthodox question," he reiterated, "and we cannot interfere; yet we are extremely sad and concerned because it is important to us that the Russian Orthodox Church should also participate in our future dialogue. Hence we cannot interfere but we wish to ask Moscow and Constantinople to do their best to find a solution, a compromise.
"If they wish," the cardinal concluded, "we can also facilitate this solution, either at the bilateral level between Moscow and Constantinople, or at the pan-Orthodox level, but there is not doubt that we want the Russian Orthodox Church to anticipate. It is a very important Church, we do not want to dialogue without the Russians and we wish to work to achieve this aim."
CON-UC/RAVENNA DOCUMENT/KASPER &nb sp; &nb sp; &nb sp; VIS 071115 (470
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Probably more than you needed to know, but interesting, isn't it?
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MaryG
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marihalojen
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| Posted: Nov 15 2007 at 11:07am | IP Logged
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Mary, your post on your blog is fascinating! Thanks for linking to it.
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Orthodox/Byzantine confusion and ???
