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mary theresa
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What do you all think about this ritual ?
Have you had your priest do this blessing after childbirth? If so, why do you personally like or want this?
DOES anyone do this anymore? I know it is in all the old traditional breviaries and isn't in common use now . . . right?
I'm curious. 
Thanks in advance!
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Mary Theresa
mother to 3 little girls --March '06, Dec '07 and Jan '10
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Lisbet
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I was just thinking about this last night after mass. I read about it years ago and thought it sounded lovely and have lamented a few times that it's no longer common practice. (though I know if I asked our priest he would probably be thrilled!)
But the reason it came to mind last night was the second reading, the part about the Woman laboring to give birth to her child and the serpent waiting by to devour him. I realized just how much we have in common with our heavenly Mother. Satan is on the prowl, ready to devour our children, we are their protection from him right now....
Sorry for the tangent.
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Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
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JennGM
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I think the nickname "Churching of Women" had a negative connation, because it implied women were unclean after childbirth until they had this blessing.
But the "blessing of a woman after childbirth" is still in vogue (and there's one before childbirth, too), and a blessing can be found in the new Roman Ritual. Although, with the recent Motu Proprio, both rituals can be used. I just wonder if it can be prayed in English from the old Roman Ritual. Anyone know?
I'll try to post the newer form if I have some time next week.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Lisbet
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Jenn, I've recieved the blessing both before and after having a baby. It's pretty generic in compairson to what I have read about the traditional "Churching of Women".
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Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
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JennGM
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Lisbet wrote:
| Jenn, I've recieved the blessing both before and after having a baby. It's pretty generic in compairson to what I have read about the traditional "Churching of Women". |
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You mean the newer form of blessing compared to the old form? I would agree that the new blessing isn't as rich. I will be a stickler and say that it's not officially called "Churching of Women" though in both old or new.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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DominaCaeli
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I knew this topic had just come up on a blog I had read this week, but it took me awhile to remember where I had seen it...
It was a post on Sarah's blog--some lovely photos of the rite here, too!
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Blessings,
Celeste
Joyous Lessons
Mommy to six: three boys (8, 4, newborn) and four girls (7, 5, 2, and 1)
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Lisbet
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Rich, Jenn, that's a much better word, I didn't like using 'generic' but I couldn't think of anything else. I have only ever heard the old rite called Churching. What is it really called?
I hope she doesn't mind, but Mary Theresa has a post on her blog also that I just read. The explanation is lovely
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Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
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JennGM
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It's simply called "Blessing of a Woman after Childbirth". I had put the English translation of the old Roman Ritual online years ago. search for the title, which is way down in the Blessing of Persons.
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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CKwasniewski
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Yes, it's still done--mostly in more traditional circles.
We had both our children baptized according to the traditional rite (with a bishop's permission--no longer needed! ) and I got a blessing like this, though not so elaborate a ceremony.
I don't think there's anything anti-woman about it. Keep in mind too, that childbirth was and still can be a life threatening event, so a blessing for the mother is a good thing.
I don't know about using the old rite of blessing without the old rite of the sacrament... That's one to ask a knowedgeable priest.
blessings
CK
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chicken lady
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I have asked for and received extreme unction before each birth. I really like this blessing!
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JennGM
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CKwasniewski wrote:
| I don't think there's anything anti-woman about it. Keep in mind too, that childbirth was and still can be a life threatening event, so a blessing for the mother is a good thing. |
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Just to clarify, I never said the rite was anti-woman at all. The term "churching of woman" which was just a nickname for the blessing has been considered (not just by me) as a negative connotation, so that's why that phrase has been dropped. It points back to the Jewish rites where the woman was considered unclean until she had the purification after her childbirth. This blessing isn't the same intention.
CKwasniewski wrote:
| I don't know about using the old rite of blessing without the old rite of the sacrament... That's one to ask a knowedgeable priest. |
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Father Z.'s blog has mentioned that this latest Motu Proprio allows use of the old Roman Ritual. I'm confused when you say "without the old rite of the sacrament" -- what sacrament? This was a stand-alone blessing.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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mary theresa
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JennGM wrote:
It points back to the Jewish rites where the woman was considered unclean until she had the purification after her childbirth.
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Interestingly enough, I talked to a friend of mine who was in the seminary of the Institute of Christ the King (an only Trad. Rite seminary) for a year or two. I was suprised to hear him say that even the Jewish Rites did not intrinsically consider the woman to be unclean.
This understanding was in fact a corruption of the original ceremony that was brought about by the Pharisee type understanding of the Law.
So, the Purification of Jesus' time was already corrupted from the original understanding. Everything in the Old Testament has a divine/higher/allegorical side as well as the practical/lower "do xyz" side. Apparently the understanding of women as needing to be "returned to ordinary use" (was the phrase my friend used) after the carrying an immortal soul and being the point at which God enters into the world, so to speak, was ALWAYS part of even the O.T. understanding of women. This understanding had been lost by the time of the Pharisees.
I guess just as higher meanings can become lost or stripped of rites/ceremonies now, the same happened with the Jewish ceremonies btwn Moses' time and Jesus' time.
An interesting thought.
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Mary Theresa
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chicken lady
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My thought here is.....you can call me anything you want if I can stay home for six weeks and be waited on hand and foot 
In all seriousness this is very interesting and educational!
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CKwasniewski
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Sorry for being unclear. The blessing is often given right after the baby's baptism, and that was how we did it. Yes, the blessing is its own thing, and doesn't have to be done along with the baptism.
Good to know that all the old ceremonies can be used again.
CK
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Celeste
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mary theresa wrote:
I was suprised to hear him say that even the Jewish Rites did not intrinsically consider the woman to be unclean.
This understanding was in fact a corruption of the original ceremony that was brought about by the Pharisee type understanding of the Law. |
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It may be that there were loftier understandings of the rite, but it does state in Leviticus 12:1 that a woman who bears a male child is unclean for seven days; and a female child, fourteen days (verse 5). After a boy she has to wait 40 days for purification; after a girl, 80. During that time "she shall touch nothing that is holy, and shall not enter the sanctuary" (v.4). After the priest has made expiation for her, "she shall be clean from the issue of her blood" (verse 7). (Anyone care to explore why female children cause more uncleanliness?)
See also Lv 15:25-30. Leviticus contains the law of holiness--God calling His people to be perfect, as He is perfect. (But without Jesus it couldn't be done. But I digress.)
Anyway, this has nothing to do with the Churching of women, but I always enjoy biblical exploration!
Celeste
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Martha
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Could it be that we put a "dirty" connotation to "unclean"? hmm? Could it also have meant, unworthy, not whole, unprepared, or????
I don't know and really don't want to get into word games....
BUT I will say that I have no issue with Leviticus.
Frankly, having a baby is an "unclean" mess. Yes, it's a beautiful blessing and a joy and all that too. But it is a mess.
Oddly enough, I will say it took me longer to feel fully recovered after my 2 girls than with my boys. Don't know why.
Could it be this reading is simply stating the obvious? That a woman who has just had a child MUST take time away from duties to heal - even religious duties?
Just a thought.
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mary theresa
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Celeste,
I do not fully understand this, but I think that my friend was saying that even all the Old Testament rules and regulations based on clean/unclean, do this, don't do this -- what seems to us abitrary and almost persnickity -- all have higher meanings, divine meanings that come from God and are imbeded in EVERYthing in the O.T.
Anyways, weren't those rules about uncleaniness in fact from Him? But then does God think women are unclean after childbirth . . .? The INTRINSIC meaning of the rite -- even if ALL the Jews misunderstood it-- could still be the higher, divine meaning.
Just thinking here . . .
I didn't have a chance to question my friend further.
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nicole-amdg
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mary theresa wrote:
Apparently the understanding of women as needing to be "returned to ordinary use" (was the phrase my friend used) after the carrying an immortal soul and being the point at which God enters into the world, so to speak, was ALWAYS part of even the O.T. understanding of women. This understanding had been lost by the time of the Pharisees.
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This all--Jewish ritual surrounding s*xuality and procreation, etc.--seems familiar...did one of the Hahns or maybe Christopher West ever speak to this in one of their taped talks? You know, along the same lines as the concept of veiling what is sacred as a basis for modesty, esp. for women vis-a-vis the life-bearing capabilities of her body? The beginning (and ending) of life being so profound as to render it almost above the prescribed rituals, and therefore set apart from them? I'm winging it here...Maybe someone with a better memory can pin it down...
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kjohnson
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I saw the topic of this thread and it immediately got my attention because Gregory and I were churched in April, 40 days after his birth. In the Orthodox tradition the full service is still used.
When Gregory was born my priest came to do the prayers after childbirth in the hospital and then 8 days later he came to our home to do the naming. Then at 40 days we were churched at Vespers and then he was baptised, chrismated and communed the next morning at the Divine Liturgy. We had fun laughing at the baby being a catechumen overnight.
It is a beautiful service. It was hard to have to stay away for 40 days, but the fathers truly knew that those first days are a special time for a mother and infant to bond. The way my priest explains it is that the work of bringing a child into this world is so holy that a service is in order to welcome the mother and child back into the communion of the faithful after having been through such a beautiful and grace-filled experience.
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Katherine
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Elizabeth
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CKwasniewski wrote:
Yes, it's still done--mostly in more traditional circles.
We had both our children baptized according to the traditional rite (with a bishop's permission--no longer needed! ) and I got a blessing like this, though not so elaborate a ceremony.
I don't think there's anything anti-woman about it. Keep in mind too, that childbirth was and still can be a life threatening event, so a blessing for the mother is a good thing.
I don't know about using the old rite of blessing without the old rite of the sacrament... That's one to ask a knowedgeable priest.
blessings
CK
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This is interesting to me. The priest who baptizes all my babies is not the most traditional priest in our diocese by a long shot. Yet, for all our baptisms, he has used the traditional rite of blessing. I look so forward to that blessing!
Katherine's point is interesting to me. She's coming from the Orthodox tradition, but what is the tradition in the traditional Catholic church? CK, is the rite of blessing (the churching of women) always with the baptism of the baby? Traditionally, is this at 40 days? I would think not, since traditionally families were encouraged to baptize their babies soon after childbirth. Incidentally, I always want to baptize soon, but because of the blessing on mothers. For me, there is tangible grace in that blessing.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Churching of Women
