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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: June 08 2013 at 10:46am | IP Logged
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Can We Talk Dance?
Pretty please?
Stuff like expense, travel, commitment, pros and cons?
Because I'm desperate. Really desperate.
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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SallyT
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| Posted: June 08 2013 at 11:16am | IP Logged
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Wow, no answers. My oldest did ballet for a while, starting late at 11 or so, and stopping at 13 or 14, mostly because she hit the dead end of "pointe or quit." We both knew we didn't have what it took, in terms of time or inclination, to move on to pointe, so that was that. Sometimes at 19 she still misses it and wishes there were some outlet for people who just want to *dance,* without its being all serious and life-consuming.
My youngest (and only other daughter) wanted to dance for years, but by the time she started wanting it, we had moved to a small town where all the dance studios are really about 1) competition, 2)cheerleading, 3)beauty pageants, and 4)skimpy costuming. Not an environment, overall, that I'm interested in being a part of myself, let alone have my daughter be a part of. Aside from the sleazy feel of a lot of it, I am just. not. into. competition. I mean, sports, yes. But I have a problem with art-form-as-oriented-to-competition -- not that I think it's objectively wrong (not at all!), but it really doesn't fit with our family philosophy, and we've always shied away from any kind of competitive thing that threatened to take over our collective life. So, we never got involved.
Until now: a friend of mine, who also happens to be our parish DRE, teaches Irish dance. Other friends of ours have been dancing with her for years. She doesn't do the standard competition-oriented Irish dance: her focus is on dancers working together in a routine, building a community, and taking Irish (Catholic!) culture into the larger community, through performances at nursing homes, festivals, etc. The commitment becomes larger and more time-consuming as dancers progress, but there's no pressure to do *everything.* And the emphasis is on fun -- my daughter's beginner class this year included two older girls (18 and 23), who are also physically larger and would probably not be on the radar screen for most standard dance programs: too old, mainly, to be just beginning.
Cost for this program is very reasonable: lessons are a $5 donation each time, and beginner costumes are an $8 t-shirt, a green skirt made and donated by a lady in the parish, and special socks and ghillies (which are more expensive, though girls hand them down. We got unlucky with hand-me-downs and had to buy ours -- $40-ish, I think). Beginners can also opt to wear black ballet or jazz shoes. As they progress, they do move into more elaborate and expensive costumes, though again, a lot of handing-down goes on. There are many families of modest means in the program, and everyone goes all out make it work affordably for everyone else.
So, we do dance. But only under these conditions. If these conditions didn't exist, we would find other things to do.
When my older daughter danced, my youngers were preschool/toddler age, and driving around did involve driving *them* around. They took lots of naps in the car, or we went to the nearby playground during lessons. It did work . . . I wouldn't say that the presence of a baby necessarily rules out older children's activities, and it might even nurture some of that flexibility that little kids with older siblings do develop as they get folded into active family life. Just a thought . . .
Sally
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leanne maree
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| Posted: June 12 2013 at 7:26pm | IP Logged
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Cay. I am apply to talk dance / ballet.
We have a few questions re dance as well.
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Leanne
Loving wife to Dermot and Adoring mother to Louise, Kristie, Kieran & Brid
http://leannemaree.blogspot.com/
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kristacecilia
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Where is the popcorn smiley?
My daughter is just finishing up her first year of dance. She's five. Although, I have frankly been shocked by some of the pictures I have seen of other five year old dancers. I am very pleased with our studio- they don't want the girls wearing makeup, glitter, or expensive costumes, and there is no emphasis on competition (yet?). They want the girls to love and experience ballet. They even try to keep the fees reasonable, although it is still expensive enough. For me it feels like the girly-girl equivalent of house league baseball, which is what my boys do and this daughter- who is convinced she is actually Rapunzel- didn't care for.
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leanne maree
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| Posted: June 12 2013 at 8:19pm | IP Logged
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My dd is 15 and is serious about dance
I we have been very careful regarding modesty, dress, moves in dances etc.
We are that point where I am wondering whether to let t go off formal schooling as such.
Just so she can totally concentrate on dance
It's an idea. Not a forgone conclusion. Just something I am musing to myself really.
Leanne
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Leanne
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http://leannemaree.blogspot.com/
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guitarnan
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| Posted: June 12 2013 at 8:23pm | IP Logged
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My daughter is an Irish dancer, currently competing at a nationals-qualifying level. She's been dancing since age 5 (started with ballet and tap, not Irish) and competing for 7 years.
We have had many family discussions over the years (and husband-wife discussions, too) about costs vs. benefits. For a long time, I wondered whether the expense was worth it, especially over the 4 years or so where she was stuck in a competition level, not moving up, but doing well with our school's performance company. Irish dance isn't expensive initially, but when you hit a certain competition level, the cost of competition costumes and appropriate classes skyrockets. Travel to regional competitions costs a lot, too. This year, for the first time, we went to the world championships (thankfully in the USA!) and that was expensive.
On the performance side, the cost of costumes is relatively high, too, because the costumes don't necessarily get re-used from year to year.
So, one of the big negatives is financial pain.
The other big negative is the massive amount of time required, both from my daughter and from me (as driver). There are many things my daughter would like to do, but can't because of her dance schedule. Many of our family trips now revolve around out-of-area competitions. This isn't bad, but it's not the typical family vacation scenario.
On the positive side:
Dancing Daughter has competed at the Olympic level of her sport (and it is a sport, with injuries and training and extra exercise classes and physical therapy). She's had the chance to see and compete against the best of the best.
She is very accustomed to accepting criticism, losing gracefully, winning graciously, maintaining stage presence, working with a team, traveling, meeting new people, making friends in unusual places, supporting her friends when she herself has not placed well and performing at schools, community events, senior centers and well-known local and regional venues.
In short, she's building a skill set that will carry her through her adult life and help her cope with personal and professional setbacks.
The Good Lord led us to a dance studio run by a director who emphasizes doing what you love and learning about teamwork and who completely discourages drama, diva-ism and Dance Mom (aka the TV show, ick) behavior. This has been wonderful for us...dancers are not permitted to upstage each other or fight about performance opportunities. Parents are friendly and helpful. We have the chance to model the best possible behavior for our children, and that does happen, approximately 99.9% of the time.
Yes, our family life does revolve around dance. Our son didn't like that, but was old enough to stay home on competition days (and later, on weekends), so we managed. We've found ways to cut some costs (stay at less expensive hotels until the world championship competition actually begins, for example) and discovered that sometimes it's not such a great idea to cut costs. (Competition costumes can be bought second/third-hand in many cases, but we're now at the point where we can't do that.)
Would I do it again, knowing how much money (and it is a LOT of money) I would end up spending?
Yes. Absolutely. My daughter is a strong-minded, focused teen who knows how to set goals and take the small steps to reach them. Dance taught her that. She can celebrate with friends when her heart is breaking over her own results. Dance taught her that. She is now teaching private lessons and earning money to buy the things she wants, and we are happy she has a job she enjoys (most of the time!) and that is completely safe and supervised (by me!). She has performed all over our state, shared her love of dance with schoolchildren and seniors and traveled up and down the Eastern seaboard for competitions...great experiences for any young person.
I recognize that I have a small family and that larger families will have challenges we have not faced, particularly with bringing littles along to every class and performance.
I also recognize that studios vary. Ours is excellent; dancers can compete - or not - and perform - or not - depending on their level of interest, dance class level and practice opportunities. They can dance for fun or go for a world medal, and everything in between. A good studio director will work with your family to find the best opportunities for your child.
(PS - Sally, do you know about the Voy message board for used Irish dance shoes? If not, PM me and I will send you the link.)
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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SallyT
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Oooh, no, Nancy, I don't know about that message board! I would love to have the link! We bought our ghillies this year, because there weren't enough used shoes to go around, and we *could* buy them, whereas some families really couldn't have. But if we stay in long enough to need hard shoes, too . . .
And I hope we do. I really love Irish dance (I've gotten up and danced with the kids on occasion!), and my daughter is loving it, too. Our program has a handful of boys, and the older ones are amazing to watch, but I never could interest either of my sons, alas.
Sally
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guitarnan
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Sally, here it is: http://www.voy.com/144101/
It's a weird format, but buyers and sellers do manage to connect. You can also try Dance.net's Irish hard shoe board at http://www.dance.net/irishhardshoe.html
Good luck!
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Kathryn
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I read your blog post so hopefully our experience helps. I was never a dancer and NEVER had ballet on my radar. Why, I kind of thought they were a bit too much into their body and into themselves. (wow, judgmental me  ) I took my oldest DD (now 14) to see the Nutcracker almost 10 years ago at the Bass Hall in Fort Worth. She fell in LOVE with those ballerinas. This is my dd that is very much a pleaser and doesn't ask for much and has the kindest heart. She asked for months if she could do ballet (she was currently in gymnastics). I found a local studio with the sign that said "Praise Him with dance..." Psalm 149. I thought maybe that could be an option.
We are in a large metro area but come to find out, the studio is run and operated by a wonderful local parishioner. They open and close each dance class with prayer and before starting they all say "Be the best ballerina you can be...AMEN!" No emphasis on having the perfect ballerina body or the size of your body or how you fit and compare with others.
Well, that fire was kindled in my DD who was 5 1/2 when she enrolled and she just finished her 9th year. DD 5 just finished her 3rd year and DD 2 did a brief walk-on spot after doing a 5 wk class this Spring. I know if we started my son, he'd prob. be up there dancing also. So, WOW, I guess I'm now a dance mom. 
Her studio is set up a little different in that although they "try out" for the dance company, I think if any girl really wants to be in it, she lets them. And that's b/c they don't do the competitions typical of other dance studios therefore the time is not near as intense. DD 14 goes to 2 classes 2x a week for 2 hours. Then Sat is their performance day and that's about 4-5 hrs but we just drop her off and the director takes them to performances. Our cost is about $175/month plus a few misc. fees of course tights, shoes and costume at year end. And we do a few fundraisers too. It is a ministry based dance company and they perform about 30x a year at various city events as well as then mostly at retirement centers and nursing homes. The director believes these are the forgotten people and she truly wants to bless them with these girls. The smiles on the resident faces usu. does hold so much reward for the girls knowing they have blessed them.
They did have the big recital last week-end and I can't believe how much my DD 14 has improved even in the past year. Her dancing, with praise music, really brought our whole family to tears.
Ballet Mag is the original company that inspired our teacher and studio. They offer summer intensive classes and would be relatively close to you in LA if she just wanted some classes. ?? We've seen them perform as well and I believe they are every bit as stringent in their teaching but the focus is on praising our Lord with the gift of their talent. I'm not sure if they have a list of other studios that would have a similar philosophy in your area if you wanted something different but I guess it's worth asking.
Good luck. This is our DD 14's passion. She even helps teach one of the classes now so DD 5 goes for free!  It has def. taught so much grace and poise as well as the discipline required to master this craft. And that has made me appreciate all those dancers out there. It def. is a time/passion thing but if that's where their heart is and they're allowed to keep a focus on our faith...so I go.
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ctrivette
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My 15 year old has been dancing 10 years, this is recital weekend;). If I could do it the way we have, I would absolutely do it again with any child. But I would need the studio we are at right now;). They have a performance troope and a brand new competition troope but DD doesn't do either. She just dances (in between sports and studies). She at 15 has yet to take a pointe class but can take anything she is ready to take and that we have the time and money. The studio owner is wonderful. 90% of the senior dances are done to Christian music. If a costume (that was approved of on the hanger) is at all inappropriate on the dancers, we get a leotard, tank, tights, whatever it takes to make it right. But it is still 'show business' and the girls are clear that dance wear is never public wear...you put on shorts and a tee shirt to leave the studio, even to go to your car. The girls are motivated by improvement, not perfection; I've never heard or heard that a teacher commented on a dancers physique in a negative way, we aren't leaning toward body image issues and all shapes and sizes are out there dancing for the love of dance and the glory of the Lord. But it all comes down to the studio and where the owners are taking it. We had a studio recently close in town where, although they produced some fantastic dancers and took every minute of dance quite seriously, the teachers commented on the dancers weight and size, encouraged dancing through injury/pain, and overlooked some blatant eating disorders. While I know that gets results, I wanted my child to see the pure fun and joy of dance, and want to improve for the love of dance, not to avoid the teachers criticism. They do become pretty body conscious if they dance through the teen years, but the right studio (and parenting) can lead them to the beauty of a healthy, strong body in the form God gave you instead of only finding beauty/worth in a perfect dancers body.
Good luck finding your answers!
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leanne maree
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| Posted: June 15 2013 at 9:49pm | IP Logged
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Ctrivette your studio sounds wonderful.
We don't have a christian influence in our ballet studio.
but...they are excellent teachers.
they have both had 10 year careers on stage in large US companies with lots of contacts.
We are blessed that the school only started early last year so as the original students they have walked a steep learning curve in the way of 'a business'
but I digress, They- husband and wife-are humble and very sweet and kind. they jst want to pass on the love of ballet and dance in general.
They have set there standards high, and do not enter into the local ballet school gossip.They just get on and do there job.
The dress code for there concerts have been quite modest, but gorgeous.
it is with this studio dd is doing her extended/ part times hours -18 hours a week, until she is accepted to a full time ballet school.
Homeschool has taken a back seat, and this iswhere living books has come into there own..
anymore suggestions.
This is all new to me..
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Leanne
Loving wife to Dermot and Adoring mother to Louise, Kristie, Kieran & Brid
http://leannemaree.blogspot.com/
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KC in TX
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The studio my girls attend is wonderful. We put on the Nutcracker each December and a spring ballet (a full one). My oldest is now in company and dances en pointe. The director is very strict about her costumes and modesty. Case in point, when those shorts with writing were really in style, she made the girls take them off or turn them inside out. She said no one needed to be directed to look at their butts.
Ballet Mag is a wonderful place. One of our alumna is a company trainee there. I always think it's interesting that they us Magnificat in such a Protestant company.
Cay, dance for us is expensive too. Classes cost a lot ($350 a month for all three) as do costumes and shoes. Pointe shoes run at $100 a pop. My oldest has strong arches so she'll run through them quickly. She's been en pointe for 5 months now and is on her second pair.
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guitarnan
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I think homeschooling and dance combine quite well...we can flex sleep hours and finish the school year in late summer if necessary (and it is necessary!). I think sometimes about what we'd be doing if Dancing Daughter had chosen, say, acting (child actors in the USA have many legal protections, but they must also do schoolwork for so many hours each week) or music (less protected, but still time-intensive).
I think anyone with a child destined for a career in the performing arts should find ways to incorporate financial/business subjects into the curriculum at appropriate times. (Ideally, contract reading would be part of that effort.) I have a friend whose daughter wants to be a ballerina, and they are already trying to figure out annual expenses for costumes, practice and pointe shoes, classes, etc., so she will be equipped with all the financial know-how she might need.
Another thing we've tried to do is instill in Dancing Daughter an interest in lifelong learning, through books, travel, film, music, etc. If she changes her mind and chooses a dance-related career, she will be well-equipped to further her own education at her own pace.
I would love to see someone develop a "contracts for teens" course...often our first exposure to a legal contract is when we rent our first apartment or buy a house...but employment agreements and freelance contracts are important, too. I'm not an attorney, or I would create this course... imaging being able to give your teen the tools to read and understand contracts and loan agreements! Please join me in praying for a course like this...
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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leanne maree
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I am really enjoying this thread.
Its been really hard trying to find the best balance with school and ballet..
Firstly because ballet is 4 days a week (starting at 1.30- 7pm Mon, Thurs, Fri, and all day saturday), and at times an extra afternoon..
dd has 2 days and limited mornings to complete her assigned school work..
Its becoming quite an issue for me, but I am trying to be relaxed about it.
At present we are doing Maths 4 times a week, IEW grammar, IEW writing and we switch between history, science and dance- researching and collating a folder on anything dance. Literature novels are read in the car, at the studio and as relaxation..
I Know this is what she wants to persue as her career so we are encouraging her and letting her fulfill her dream..even if she decides later its not for her, at least she was given the opportunity..
Thats where we are at the moment..
Leanne
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Leanne
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http://leannemaree.blogspot.com/
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4Real Forums : The Arts in the Everyday
Topic: Can We Talk Dance?
