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dolorsofmary
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| Posted: Feb 15 2011 at 1:01pm | IP Logged
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I have a question about art and beauty. Does art always have to be beautiful? What if there was a very ugly war or event and someone had a burning desire to paint what was on their heart and it was as ugly as the event. Hmmm...would that be true art too?? Hmmm...
Your thoughts please.
My first gut feel is that all art must be beautiful to raise our minds to God but well hmmm... Your thoughts.
I have 2 links on the cult of the ugly, both very very good. Directly below is the link from a catholic priest and below that is a video link - long, more secular, but very very very very good (from a philosopher) but it is NOT for children!
http://www.americaneedsfatima.org/Articles/the-cult-of-uglin ess-in-america.html?utm_source=E0252&utm_medium=email&utm_te rm=E0252&utm_content=E0252&utm_campaign=2410
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65YpzZrwKI4
and it is part 1 of 6 but really really really good!
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Feb 15 2011 at 1:13pm | IP Logged
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I think things can be depicted in a beautiful way, even if the event or subject is not beautiful.
Think of the crucifixion depicted in art.
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stellamaris
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I don't think true art must be beautiful. Unfortunately, there is evil in the world and art reflects that reality. I can think of some strange art by Hieronymus Bosch (1450-1516), particularly Christ Mocked. The figures surrounding our Lord represent possibly animals (humans so inhuman they have become animals..notice the dog collar) or even the four medieval temperaments gone to their worst extremes of cruelty, pride, groveling, etc...Here's the picture. I don't like Bosch, but I do consider him an artist of note, even a Christian artist. He did, however, represent evil in many strange and fantastic ways in his paintings.
Another painting that comes to mind is Guernica by Pablo Picasso. Picasso represents the terrible genocide perpetrated on the innocent Basque people by an unprovoked Nazi bombing (before WWII). He painted this image to cause outrage and draw attention to the viciousness of the Nazi regime. He wanted to be sure this tragedy was not forgotten. So, here's a good purpose for a disturbing painting...again, because there is evil in this world. The image is here. Once again, I don't like this painting, I don't think it is beautiful, but it is art.
As long as the world is evil, there will be disturbing images in art as artist try to represent the struggle between good and evil.
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Caroline
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stellamaris
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| Posted: Feb 15 2011 at 2:00pm | IP Logged
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Wanted to say, I haven't checked those links out yet...but if you are talking about ugliness just for ugliness sake and not for a higher purpose (to show the struggle between good and evil, to show moral outrages in a condemning light,etc.), then I don't consider that to be art. It's just plain ugly. True art has a meaning and purpose that is directed in some way to spiritual values.
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Caroline
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: Feb 15 2011 at 4:14pm | IP Logged
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I highly recommend this series by philosopher Roger Scruton Why Beauty Matters (I wouldn't watch this with littles around, though).
I think there are differences in taste that still allow for art to be objectively beautiful, even if you don't particularly like it. An autographed urinal is not art, no matter what you call it.
I feel that Caroline's links to paintings are not necessarily "ugly" and are definitely art. Words like "pretty" and "ugly" are deceptive.
There are things that are "pretty" and pleasing on a basic level, but they would still be inferior as art when compared to a more disturbing image. Greeting cards come to mind as "pretty" examples that are sometimes little more artistic than the "chert on mirror" I saw at the Philadelphia Art Museum years ago 
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stellamaris
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| Posted: Feb 15 2011 at 5:38pm | IP Logged
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This thread makes me think of these lines of poetry I learned as a child from Ode on a Grecian Urn by John Keats:
When old age shall this generation waste,
Thou* shalt remain, in midst of other woe
Than ours, a friend to man, to whom thou sayest,
"Beauty is truth, truth beauty," – that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.
(*the Grecian urn)
So, thinking on these lines, could "ugliness" be something that expresses lies or untruth? Like the urinal posing as art, but without any thought, effort, or meaning to it...art, but empty and void...not true and therefore not art. Hum....lots to think about 
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Caroline
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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: Feb 15 2011 at 10:05pm | IP Logged
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CrunchyMom wrote:
Words like "pretty" and "ugly" are deceptive.
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Totally agree! 
Does anyone have this month's Magnificat? They always offer a study of a piece of art and it's always interesting.
Go to the very back and read the one they have this month. Very interesting.
When I first read the question I thought of two works immediately...
(1) I wouldn't consider El Greco's work "beautiful" but there are other degrees hidden within his work that makes it interesting, inspiring, authentic, awakening...worth contemplating.
(2) Icons...some would debate this w/ me but I just took a workshop where I shared my thoughts of icons and the instructor and other participants understood exactly what I was saying.
Icons have angular lines, not smooth, and nothing is porportioned correctly.
Babies have adult faces.
People stand atop buildings.
Heads are cocked at disturbing angles.
Shoes that don't fit the feet dangle loosely.
And there is graffiti scattered across the piece.
Until you understand the "written art" found within these icons, they are not "beautiful" but rather "ackward" and abnormal.
Once you understand them, they become meaningful.
Once something becomes meaningful, it becomes beautiful.
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dolorsofmary
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| Posted: Feb 16 2011 at 7:25am | IP Logged
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Thank you all for your wonderful edifying responses! So good and deep! Really great! Thank you again! It is difficult with draw that fine line (is it a fine line) between ugly to depict the ugliness in our world and the cult of the ugly which is deemed as art but is not art. I guess I'm making it too hard. The 'fake art' is the art that is bold and in your face and parades as art but it instead insults (yet even there you can find exceptions) but you all know what I'm talking about - urinals and such! And there is the ugly but it can be art, it can depict the evil in the world but still raise our minds to God. thank you!
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4Real Forums : The Arts in the Everyday
Topic: true art and the cult of ugliness
