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ALmom
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Okay, my highschooler decided she wants to study French next year. (She just finished 2 years of Latin and may duel enroll eventually for more Latin though I don't detect tons of enthusiasm. Right now we cannot duel enroll due to transportation difficulties). Her requests are: something that is practical and conversational but with enough grammar that you really do learn the language. She also wants something that gently begins to immerse you in the language. Obviously it will need to include some sort of audio as she would like to learn to pronounce things properly.
My requirements: It must be acceptably at a high school level, not require any parent/outside input for the actual language (I don't know a word of French and cannot afford a tutor this year)and have some way that I can determine/ help her pace herself. We have recognized that this child has trouble juggling more than 1 subject at a time so she wants lesson plans with everything specified by day. I cannot have this be an open ended subject or honestly she won't get around to doing it even though she really wants to do it. I'm trying to help her see how you divide up the work, plan and do your best given the deadlines.
Now here are the things that we have heard are available:
Powerglide
National Textbook (know nothing about this one)
Roseetta Stone
French Now (probably very textbooky and not up dd alley) and it is what Seton uses.
Does anyone have recommendations, reviews of what they liked or didn't like about these.
Powerglide sounded interesting to her based on the description. Has anyone used it? If so, would you mind giving us a rundown on the plusses and minuses? Also, I know it is based on some sort of Adventure Story. What is the story like? Is it appropriate or does it go into mature or inappropriate areas?
Is there something else out there that we should consider?
Janet
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MarilynW
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| Posted: May 27 2008 at 12:01pm | IP Logged
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Janet - I am on my way out now- will get back to this. My short comments - I do not like Powerglide. Rosetta Stone can be good - but you need to set it up so you can monitor her progress. I have a folder somewhere on my computer on French programs - I will see if I can find it. I am a French undergrad major - and my husband used to teach French in Catholic High School - so we feel very strongly about language programs!!
(how about a trip to Paris or Quebec for gentle immersion  
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Mary G
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| Posted: May 27 2008 at 1:18pm | IP Logged
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Once your daughter feels comfortable with French, a real cool aid is the Asterix: Learn French computer software which is lots of fun but you do have to know a bit first.
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MaryG
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Marjorie
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Janet, I would not recommend French Now. I am tutoring a junior in hs who started using this book. He is trying to learn it by himself with just 1.5 hrs of class/week. It would not be too bad if you did not want to try to speak French, just read. I just don't like how it is laid out. That said, I found a copy thru Amazon that was like new for $4. Not a bad investment. I would be very interested to hear what texts Catholic/public schools are using at the HS level. I am using First Start French from Memoria Press for my elementary age girls and I have been pleased with it so far, but it is aimed only at students 8th and younger. If she wants to learn to speak, try French in Action You can watch the program online for free. It is an excellent immersion style system produced by Dr. Capretz at Yale designed for college students. It follows a young lady named Mireille and her friends and family and uses both instruction and video clips to reinforce concepts. It is free - always good :-) I have only watched the first two or three programs, but it appeared very well done. You would want to tie that with a written program too. One thought, is there a native speaker/francophone near you for whom she could babysit in exchange for tutoring? I actually felt guilty taking money to tutor so I bartered. I tutored, hs student baby sat. Very effective and it saved student's mom $$
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Marjorie
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Mary G
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Oh Marjorie, thanks for the reminder -- French Now is what Seton had Catie use in 9th grade, and she just took the French AP exam (3 years into French),
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MaryG
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ALmom
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French in Action is very, very intriguing and I was drawn into it and you do get to hear a lot of speaking. I'm sure we'll listen to the freebies regardless of what program we do. However the program was $400 plus - guess cheaper than duel enrollment or tutor. Are all lessons on-line for free and you just need to order a textbook with it (seemed to sell at about $50 so that might be doable). You can listen on-line but I don't think those free to listen to tapes would do the whole thing - could be wrong. At some point, doesn't a high school course need to address the grammar of a language? I'm only asking, not trying to challenge, because I think foreign language is the toughest thing to do at home. I just don't know if I can invest $400 in a single course unless I knew every child was taking the same language. Right now my guess is that my next child will pick German - at least I can help a little with that one.
I wasn't real thrilled with French Now because we used Spanish Now with our oldest and got a tutor pretty early on knowing she wasn't going to learn very well from a book on her own - even with Seton support. I also couldn't help with the errors in AK, I never knew they were errors so we just got frustrated. Doing it with a live person worked really well - but was expensive. Mary G, obviously Catie did well with it - how did you guys do it?
Janet
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Marjorie
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| Posted: May 28 2008 at 6:37am | IP Logged
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Janet,
I thought the French in Action materials were quite high too! I think I would use the online videos as a supplement not as the main program.
Mary, I would love to hear what your daughter used for the second and third years leading up to the AP. French Now covers, if I remember right (possibly not), only year one or part of year two. How did you handle testing? The poor mom of my student is using it enrolled in MODG and is trying to make her own tests and it is not Mom-friendly. I would prefer to see a program with daily exercises, quizzes and regular testing. I know it is a terribly workbookish approach, but I think you need good old fashioned memorization with languages - at least if you want to read and write vs conversation. I'd love to hear what programs others are using. I was surprised Seton used French Now.
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Marjorie
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MarilynW
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I could not find my folder of information - but I did find some notes I made when evaluating programs for the children.
The programs I liked best are;
Learnables
and Rosetta Stone
I thought the Memoria Press was a good program too (not for high school)
I guess I like the programs which are heavily vocal - though I agree that old fashioned memorization has to be done. When speaking French now I still work out the "rules" in my head that I learned years ago - and it is amazing how I remember all the "irregulars" that I memorized.
I think if you can do some "book work" and then follow it up with a visit to somewhere "francophone" (does Louisiana count?!) - it so helps. I had a very thorough knowledge of book French - but exchange visits and living in France really taught me the most.
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Mary G
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Well, after the first year of Seton (which poor Catie didn't much care for), we had French teachers for her the next two years -- and she does have a gift for languages.
But, the concepts were ingrained after the one year of French Now -- at first, she didn't do well with it, but we took our time and spent all summer (so probably spent almost a full 12 months) doing and redoing the exercises and the reading and the conversations so that when she went into her sophmore year ... she was ready for a French teacher. Her Junior year, she was at the Diocesan high school and her first day of French 3 ... her native-French teacher said you must be in French 4 Honors ... and she got the French 4 award at the end of the year.
I was in a French school from K-6 and learned alot and was able to help her with pronunciation, etc ... but I still give much of the credit to French Now as it was so versatile and covered lots of things ... not just dopey "I have a brown toothbrush on my kitchen counter" or other goofy sentences ....
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MaryG
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guitarnan
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When I took college French, we had to watch French In Action at the language lab each week - it was a supplement to our textbook/classroom experience.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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MarieA
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Have you looked at this program?
Le Francais Facile
They have samples online and even an intro video to watch. They have based the program on Charlotte Mason. They have also recently broken down the program into less expensive books.
Marie 
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Marjorie
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Mary,
Thanks for the info on how your daughter used French Now. I will have to look back at it this summer. Unless Memoria Press comes out with the second book we may use French Now next year for lack of an alternate. My only experience with FN was trying to tutor conversational French/pronunciation to a student who had not mastered the grammar and was floundering. I had to back track and reteach the book "after the fact" The volume of info was too great from my 1 hr/wk session, too fast from that perspective. I ended up using the Memoria Press book with him so he could advance with speaking, while reviewing the grammar slowly. Question, did Seton provide tests or lesson plans for French Now?
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Marjorie
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ALmom
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If you sign up,if it is anything like the Spanish Now, they provide the whole gamut, tests, detailed lesson plans, AK, etc. The audio tapes were poor quality when we did it but it looks like they now have a CD that comes with the text so that should be better. If Fr. Constantine is still there, that is a bonus - He was the counselor for Latin and French though not necessarily the one who designed the tests or any other aspect of the program.
Typically there are a lot of mistakes in text or AK (not confined to Seton just the nature of TB)so if you don't know your subject or have anyone to sort it out for you, you may end up floundering. Also, you grade the homework at home and we got tripped up on things like accent marks as I didn't realize it was essential to the language  and had no clue when the AK was in error. Obviously, since I didn't teach it in the homework, and it wasn't super stressed in the plans, we bombed some early tests and I decided she needed a tutor. At least we figured this out early - like after the first test. Funny thing, the tutor went a bit more gently in pace so we still had a few problems with the tests and the tutor had some major disagreements in how the text was used or the emphasis and such. She was a native speaker and a retired high school Spanish teacher so she supplemented quite a bit, teaching our dd the variety of pronunciations depending on the region and other things as well. Seton had some nice bonuses in that they had catechetical material for children that was in Spanish that students could attempt to read and translate while doing the course. The tutor did the first year straight from the Seton material but we just had her do the grading and stuff since she was the teacher and knew what she was doing and it saved time. By the 2nd year, she did Seton her own way - mixing her material and Seton's and modifying extensively.
If children handle textbooks well, can pace themselves, and have access to someone who can help verify/correct text mistakes, help with pronunciations, etc. and help with accent marks (I cannot do accents in English, I know I will be of no help in French or Spanish), then it is probably doable and moves at a college pace. It is definitely heavy on grammar and very textbooky - not necessarily bad, just not exactly what we had in mind this time around. It would never be considered a fluffy text and was certainly thorough - just go at about half the pace Seton requires unless you are brilliant or a native speaker. It just seems ridiculous to race through a language.
Our dd just finished Wheelock Latin and that was definitely textbooky, heavy on grammar and not terribly practical in her mind (she isn't interested in reading the classics in the original language though I'm really glad she did the 2 years). She really wants to feel like she could finish a course and actually speak the language. I have at least a book or two in French, that she might try to read when she is done and I dont' want to neglect the grammar entirely, but I'd like the emphasis on her French to be solid but a bit more fun to keep her interest going and more emphasis in speaking it as we will be limited in access to French Speaking folks. There are a few but they are older women who are plenty busy and whom we know but not really, really well. (Why won't my children pick German - this town is full of German spouses of military, German descendents of the original rocket team (you get an interesting perspective on some things and come to find out our Latin tutor's Uncle was an officer in the German submarine corp during WWII and his father almost starved to death in POW camp. We happened upon his name in a book my son was reading), Oktoberfest is regular around here and there is not a shortage of German speaking folks. I even pick up books from friends of the library and get them home only to find out they are all in German). Anyways, I even took 5 years of German and could help them through the first year and follow the text reasonably well. Aaah. No, they have to pick the one or two languages that isn't spoken much around here and for which I have no ability to render aid.
Thanks Maria, we'll look into that option. Has anyone used it? Do be aware that it is important that anytime you use Sanomas type things, that you are very careful about duration and intensity or you can cause problems. I know we will be asking our other child's therapist about that aspect of the program. The theory is good - just we've seen some Sanomas being implemented in harmful rather than helpful ways so we are cautious. I'd really love to hear from folks who have used it.
Janet
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Marjorie
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Thanks for the info Janet. I will pass it on to my student's mom. They use MODG which provides no help at all with French other than the title of the book! It might be worth enrolling in just one class with Seton.
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Marjorie
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ALmom
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Marie:
I had never looked at the program before. It really looks like just what we want. It doesn't neglect grammar or phonograms or any of the other things that seem to help but it has extensive spoken/listening exercises. My one hesitation is the description and statement of faith. The story line for older children involves interest in the missions and their stated purpose is equipping their children to evangelize the French speaking world. They say that they do not push missions but is it something that is going to drive us nuts after awhile just because it has a different Christian world view. It is nice to know that I'm sure I won't find objectionable story lines in terms of adult content, I'm sure but will I find some unintentional anti-Catholicism. I am just very sensitive to that? Has anyone actually used this?
Janet
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MarieA
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Hi Janet,
Here is a copy of pretty much the entire level one book on Google Book Search.
Le Francais Facile Level 1 Google Book Search
I haven't scanned the entire book, but I am hoping that their push for missions will not be too heavy handed. I did look at the table of contents and did not see anything objectionable. I did order the new level 1A for my daughter today and I can let you know when it arrives.
Hope this helps.
Marie
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MarieA
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Oops, there is a large section of lessons from the middle of the Google Book Search book missing, as well as an odd page or so here and there....
Marie
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ALmom
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I did go ahead and e-mail the author of this program. It seems that she has enough background to know what would be offensive to Catholics and was pretty sure there wasn't anything in her program. She told me it was a language program and not a theology program, though it is being used by a mission society to train their missionaries in French and would include verses considered most beneficial to these missionaries going to French speaking people.
I read everything in the google link - nothing overtly denominational or even alluding to Christianity in the basic story. The scripture verses had the typical John 3:16 (nothing offensive here just the taking out of context) but the way it was included, I see no reason why I couldn't ask one of the French ladies if they would mind taping some French prayers, hymns or other verses that would be relevant to us and adding these to the program.
I'm encouraged and honestly, this looks like the best foreign language program I've ever seen!!!! Please do let me know what you find. I know that when I order, I'll end up needing Level I and II for my high schooler. It is level II that I am most worried about. I'd just feel so much better if I knew another Catholic that had used it.
The author did suggest asking on her Yahoo group and even volunteered to do this for me if I wished. I have had the hardest time figuring out Yahoo stuff. I never even could manage to get on with RC History so I doubt I'll go on. If you do something like that, would you let me know. Otherwise I might end up imposing on this lady who seems quite prompt in answering questions and very generous.
I'm really hoping that this will be straightforward as the program just looks so good and it will be awfully tempting. Anyways, if there are problems and you don't want to post, please PM me. Thanks.
Janet
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MarieA
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Hi Janet,
I have the same trouble with Yahoo... If you hear anything about the program, in regards to Catholicism, I'd love to hear about it. Otherwise, I will let you know how the book looks when it arrives.
Marie
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MarieA
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| Posted: June 06 2008 at 11:16am | IP Logged
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Hi Janet,
My Level 1A arrived the other day and it looks very good. I also found a used Level 1 and will preview that and get back to you on it.
Marie
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4Real Forums : Across Time and Place
Topic: French
