| Author | |
Jennifer
Forum Pro
Joined: July 14 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 51
|
| Posted: Sept 18 2007 at 3:38pm | IP Logged
|
 |
|
Someone wrote on another thread they use SOTW, but leave out the anti-Catholic parts. Am I blind? So far I haven't noticed anything contrary to the Catholic Faith. If anyone can clue me in I'd appreciate it.
Jennifer
Camp Homeschool
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Kelly
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 21 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1211
|
| Posted: Sept 19 2007 at 8:26am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Hey Jennifer,
Go to Search, type in "Susan Wise Bauer's Story of the World" ...there's a two page discussion of this topic. Sorry I don't know how to do the link! We should have a thread on Basic 4Real Technology! 
Kelly in FL
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
vmalott
Forum All-Star
Joined: Sept 15 2006
Location: Ohio
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 536
|
| Posted: Sept 19 2007 at 3:19pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Here is the link to the thread Kelly mentioned.
Very interesting.
Valerie
__________________
Valerie
Mom to Julia ('94), John ('96), Lizzy ('98), Connor ('01), Drew ('02), Cate ('04), Aidan ('08) and three saints in heaven
Seven Times the Fun
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Macmom
Forum Pro
Joined: July 06 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 193
|
| Posted: Sept 19 2007 at 7:18pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
We are using SOTW III right now (we are only 2 chapters in) and I am already adding supplementary Catholic material and looking to skip topics I don't feel merit a chapter.
This is my THIRD time around a four year history cycle, and I have pretty much created my own curriculum- so I have tons of good books already for different age groups/ history events and primary source documents for the logic stage as well. I also have recourse to the Fr. Furlong books for balance, sometimes, too!
For instance, the first chapter in SOTW III has a unit on "The Riches of Spain." (You know, greedy conquistadors... though it does mention some priests were against enslaving the Indians.) Well, we added a study of Our Lady of Guadalupe to this part, as well as an OLOG coloring page! We also discusses how many Catholics went over to New Spain with good intentions (converting the Indians) but instead the gold and riches there made them forget what God wanted. ("The love of money is the root of all evil.." was the topic of discussion, and we applied it to family life, too! Sometimes we get so wrapped up in having "stuff" that we treat the people around us like part of our "stuff" to do with what we please!) The older kids (5th and 6th grade) also read Dr. Leek's "Evangelization of the New World" which is an excellent Catholic supplement for this period.
Bottom line is, the Spanish were failing to convert the natives because of their bad examples of greed and cruelty- but God stepped in and sent His mother to evangelize! Hence, South America is very Catholic due to a miracle more than the sterling example of Europeans!
I wouldn't add a Protestant-based history curriculum to my homeschool unless 1) I was knowledgeable enough to pick out the anti-Catholic whoppers 2) I was willing to discuss with the kids how the Church has failed at times to spread the Gospel effectively through word AND deed, and 3) I had a good supplemental library of Catholic books and materials to balance things out. Yes, this means it's a lot of work and not quite the pre-packaged curriculum with ease that I would like. But I haven't seen a Catholic curriculum yet that fits my requirements!
Peace,
Macmom
__________________
Catholic family life works on the same principle as a washing machine- clothes get clean by agitation.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Kelly
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 21 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1211
|
| Posted: Sept 19 2007 at 8:33pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Well-said, Macmom. BTW I heartily agree with your assessment of Dr. Leek's "Evangelization of the New World"---I'm always plugging this little tome. It's an excellent resource!
Kelly in FL
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Jennifer
Forum Pro
Joined: July 14 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 51
|
| Posted: Sept 19 2007 at 11:43pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
So, I'd like to know, Macmom, what are some of the awesome Catholic history books? Where should I be looking for these? Any particular curriculum vendor having not to be missed history books?
Jennifer
Camp Homeschool
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Bookswithtea
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 07 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2621
|
| Posted: Sept 20 2007 at 7:08am | IP Logged
|
|
|
If you are in Vol. 1 you won't notice any real problems. They start with Vol. 2. I do the same as Macmom. SOTW works for me because its thorough and interesting, but I keep other books on hand that are less interesting but crucial for balance. In addition to the Fr. Furlong books, I also use The Story of the Church. Chapters are kind of boring but the information is perfect for 6th-8th grade level students...just the right amount.
The Spanish take HUGE hits in most world history texts...its a shame really. In SL's Incans Aztecs and Mayans, John Holzmann rightly points out that the Spanish were actually less cruel and more egalitarian than the British Christians. There is also some good balancing information in the early chapters of the Landmark History of the American People (in this case, the Puritans take a well deserved hit, imho...its unusual to find a text willing to touch them).
__________________
Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
StephanieA
Forum Pro
Joined: May 11 2006
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 394
|
| Posted: Sept 20 2007 at 7:50am | IP Logged
|
|
|
.
<<<Bottom line is, the Spanish were failing to convert the natives because of their bad examples of greed and cruelty- but God stepped in and sent His mother to evangelize! Hence, South America is very Catholic due to a miracle more than the sterling example of Europeans!>>>>>>
Excellent example. But I wouldn't go far as to say "the Spanish". I would say the conquistadors and land owners.
Problem was that it was difficult living in the New World and so it was many times the down and out and greedy who came from Spain. (They had less to lose and more to gain in the New World). However, Spain, like France in the New World sent Catholic missionaries as a matter of course. Obviously so, since Juan was already catechized and brought his message to the Bishop.
Good priests like Bartolome de Cases, St. Peter Claver, etc. were administrating and "fighting" for the rights of South American Indians.
Much evangelization was done, and conflict abounded between the priests and the land owners over the treatment of the Indians. Good administrators were hard to find, but the kings and queens were against cruel treatment of the Indians and on several occasions punished land owners for the excesses.
That said, for a bit better book IMHO from the Catholic standpoint (BUT not Catholic) and better written than Bauer is "A Little History of the World" by Gombrich. Same story-like narrative. Some problems also, but I couldn't stomach all those!!!!!!!!!! (marks) in Bauer's book.
Does this drive anyone else crazy!!!!!!!????!!!!!
I skip some of the Reformation section and some other problematic areas, but it is much better from the Catholic standpoint than Story of World. (You can also skip the first 2 chapters). But reading a chapter and supplementing from Catholic saint's lives, etc. can be a great way to do history in the early grades.
Addendum: "Little History of the World" IS problematic in some sections from a Catholic standpoint. Other sections are a bit problematic just because the WHOLE story isn't told. (Kind of like a little child telling his mother he has been pushed by his sibling, but forgets to say that his sibling grabbed his toy away first. Doesn't justify the action, but you have a better picture of the whole incident.)
As I mentioned, you can skip reading aloud entire chapters and supplement at this point with less biased and saint's bios, encyclopedia articles, etc.
Either way, it is better written and less-biased than SOTW.
Blessings,
Stephanie
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
vmalott
Forum All-Star
Joined: Sept 15 2006
Location: Ohio
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 536
|
| Posted: Sept 20 2007 at 8:05am | IP Logged
|
|
|
While we're studying the Ancients this year, I'm already preparing for next year for Medieval/Renaissance. Online I found a webpage that correlates readings in SOTW with other spines, such as the Usborne IL Encyclopedia of World History. Anyway, since we had a slow Friday afternoon last week, I decided to go a step further and align those readings/topics with chapters from The Old World and America by Fr. Furlong. Like others have suggested, this is to provide a balance.
You might also glean information from the booklists at Mother of Divine Grace. Just click on the links for the booklists at each grade level to find a listing of supplemental literature for History. There are also similar lists in the book Designing Your Own Classical Curriculum, but I think what is online reflects titles that are fairly accessible (i.e. in print).
As far as vendors, the link for the Furlong book above is from Adoremus Books, and they have a nice listing of titles in the History category, which you can search by time period. You can also check Emmanuel Books, which has separate listings in History for High School and other grade levels.
HTH,
Valerie
__________________
Valerie
Mom to Julia ('94), John ('96), Lizzy ('98), Connor ('01), Drew ('02), Cate ('04), Aidan ('08) and three saints in heaven
Seven Times the Fun
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Kelly
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 21 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1211
|
| Posted: Sept 20 2007 at 8:25am | IP Logged
|
|
|
You might enjoy Crocker's "Triumph"---not a book for little children, but gives a good, Catholic overview of history. Not sure how scholarly it is, but it's a good jumping off point if you're reading to get an historical Catholic viewpoint.
Kelly in FL
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Kelly
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 21 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1211
|
| Posted: Sept 20 2007 at 8:30am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Oh, one of the things we did was I purchased that big set of Saints cards from Emmanuel Books. Then, whenever we come to a particular period in history, we go thru and pull out the saints who lived during that time. THEN, as we go along, we read the cards, do some of the activities, write a biographical sketch, maybe look for a picture in art of the saint (lots of Old Masters paintings of notable saints!) and in this way incorporate the saints right into our history studies/notebooks. It definitely helps provide a little balance in the historical narrative!
Kelly in FL
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Bookswithtea
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 07 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2621
|
| Posted: Sept 20 2007 at 11:43am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Kelly wrote:
You might enjoy Crocker's "Triumph"---not a book for little children, but gives a good, Catholic overview of history. Not sure how scholarly it is, but it's a good jumping off point if you're reading to get an historical Catholic viewpoint.
Kelly in FL |
|
|
I love this book. Not because I think its completely historically accurate, but because its just so bold and funny! Major dry wit. He should have called it, "The Politically Incorrect view of Catholic history." 
Its a great overview and I am glad to own it. I would not use it as a text for my high schoolers, though, as I thought he was dismissive at times (particularly of the Orthodox Church). Its definitely not "winsome" or something I would quote from in a debate with someone from another viewpoint, but I might reference it personally and file the info. in the back of my head! lol
__________________
Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Mary Chris
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 27 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2175
|
| Posted: Sept 20 2007 at 4:07pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
All I can say is WOW! You are such an amazing source of knowledge. I am taking notes for next year when we study the Middle Ages. I'm really hoping Valerie will just publish all her notes, that would make my job easy!
__________________
Blessings, Mary Chris Beardsley
mom to MacKenzie3/95, Carter 12/97 Ronan 3/00 and wife to Jim since 1/92
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
vmalott
Forum All-Star
Joined: Sept 15 2006
Location: Ohio
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 536
|
| Posted: Sept 22 2007 at 8:09am | IP Logged
|
|
|
marychris wrote:
| I'm really hoping Valerie will just publish all her notes, that would make my job easy! |
|
|
I will try to get the list up on my blog sometime soon. Admittedly, someone else did most of the work here...I just added the chapters for OWA. Every little bit helps, though, right?
Valerie
__________________
Valerie
Mom to Julia ('94), John ('96), Lizzy ('98), Connor ('01), Drew ('02), Cate ('04), Aidan ('08) and three saints in heaven
Seven Times the Fun
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
vmalott
Forum All-Star
Joined: Sept 15 2006
Location: Ohio
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 536
|
| Posted: Sept 24 2007 at 1:29pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
As promised, I've uploaded the correlated readings to be downloaded on my blog. Take a look at my musings on Medieval History Plans.
Enjoy!
Valerie
__________________
Valerie
Mom to Julia ('94), John ('96), Lizzy ('98), Connor ('01), Drew ('02), Cate ('04), Aidan ('08) and three saints in heaven
Seven Times the Fun
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Maryan
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 02 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3145
|
| Posted: Sept 24 2007 at 1:33pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
 Thanks Valerie -- storing this away. 
__________________
Maryan
Mom to 6 boys & 1 girl: JP('01), B ('03), M('05), L('06), Ph ('08), M ('10), James born 5/1/12
A Lee in the Woudes
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
cathhomeschool
Board Moderator
Texas Bluebonnets
Joined: Jan 26 2005
Location: Texas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7303
|
| Posted: Sept 24 2007 at 5:49pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Kelly wrote:
| Sorry I don't know how to do the link! We should have a thread on Basic 4Real Technology! |
|
|
Ahem... We *do,* Kelly! Check it out: FAQ
__________________
Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Kelly
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 21 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1211
|
| Posted: Sept 24 2007 at 6:14pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
LOL Janette, Actually, I *found* your site after I wrote that  How is it you are so technically savvy, my dear??? I'm impressed.
Forever technically challenged, Kelly in FL
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
cathhomeschool
Board Moderator
Texas Bluebonnets
Joined: Jan 26 2005
Location: Texas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7303
|
| Posted: Sept 24 2007 at 10:03pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Technically savvy, huh? Well, it helps that the forum web master sits at a computer that is spitting distance from mine. When I had questions, I just asked *him.* Now I don't have to ask things as often cuz I've learned...
__________________
Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
vmalott
Forum All-Star
Joined: Sept 15 2006
Location: Ohio
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 536
|
| Posted: Nov 07 2007 at 7:17am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Thought I'd renew interest in this thread. 
Since the original discussion, I've been continuing my planning for next year's Medieval History studies for my family. The red flag portions others have mentioned in SOTW 2 had me concerned, so I finally was able to check it out of the library to read it for myself. (See the thread linked in the third post down from the top on the first page).
Books mentioned using Story of the Church, which I ordered and just received yesterday. I immediately went to the sections related to the Reformation, since that is my main area of concern while studying Medieval/Early Renaissance times. It presented the information in what seemed to me a fairly balanced way, considering it's a Catholic text. In other words, the writers acknowledged that there were rampant problems within the Church, especially with the Bishops and Archbishops, that the Church was in need of some fixing, and that folks like Luther were justified in some of their concerns. So, this looks like it might be the spine for my oldest to work from next year.
As an aside, would you believe I took a college course (state school) called "The Renaissance and Reformation" and about the only thing I came away from the course remembering is that the Protestants had their Reformation and the Catholics had their Counter-Reformation? ::sigh:: (not attacking the class content, but, rather, my inability to get anything further out of the course).
Oh, and for those who like the approach of Connecting With History from RC History, the Story of the Church is written by the same group who wrote Bible History, so it has a similar format. It seemed a bit easier to read, but that may be because much of the information was already familiar to me, whereas OT history is definitely not familiar to me. Anyway, it may be a book to use as a core text for the "logic stage" student, in the same way Bible History is used in CWH Volume 1 and the units available for Volume 2.
Needless to say, this was my long-winded way of saying that I will probably be re-working my plans further. I will be sure to post an update of those plans, working in the various titles for the various age levels when I'm finished.
Valerie
__________________
Valerie
Mom to Julia ('94), John ('96), Lizzy ('98), Connor ('01), Drew ('02), Cate ('04), Aidan ('08) and three saints in heaven
Seven Times the Fun
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
4Real Forums : Across Time and Place
Topic: Story of the World...Catholic?
