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J.Anne
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| Posted: Jan 08 2007 at 10:27am | IP Logged
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My six year old daughter has almost completed MUS Alpha. But as we come back and I am quizzing her on basic problems, she doesn't seem to have any understanding of basic concepts. I will ask her 12-8 and she will answer 15. She is baffled by subtraction and has been for a year now. I am asking her questions that she really should know. Part of the problem is she seems to have no problem solving skills. (If 10-1=9, then 10-2=8 - she doesn't get that). I am trying to be patient, but we have worked so hard on all of this I am VERY frustrated that she doesn't seem to get any of it. What have we been doing this whole year??? Sorry to go on and on, but I just don't know what to do! Is she too young? Is she block dependent? Is Math U See the wrong program? 
Jennifer
As Cozy as Spring
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Karen E.
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| Posted: Jan 08 2007 at 10:41am | IP Logged
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My first reaction is to say "Just relax and hang in there ... she's only six." 
But, that said, I'm not the person to ask about math. (So why am I replying here??)
Because, I guess, I feel as if I'm on both sides of the math coin, so to speak. I have one child (10yo) who "gets it" so easily, and thinks mathematically, and is a problem solver. I have another (my 13 yo) who still balks, hates it and also seems to have no problem-solving skills. Her mind just doesn't seem to work that way.
My husband says he was the same way with math ... and yet, he's the most intelligent man I've ever met when it comes to literature and history. He has an amazing mind. So do my daughters, but they're amazing in different ways.
I think one thing that has frustrated me with my oldest is that I keep expecting her to be like me. I didn't particularly care for math, but I did fine. I got A's, and took what was required of me, and then I quit taking math because I had no interest in it.
I keep thinking, "She should be able to do this ... I did it." But, if her mind is more like her dad's in this area, then she won't easily get those "A's" (although we don't actually do grades around here.)
So, I keep reminding myself to take it slowly, steadily, and rejoice in the progress we *do* make. I want my eldest to be mathematically literate, and be able to get through college, and be able to function as a rent-paying, check-writing, tip-leaving adult. If she can do all that, we'll count it a success. I don't expect her to love math ... I don't.
I remind myself to look at her strengths (literature and history, definitely), and I remind myself that each child is different -- not only from one another, but from me.
Does this help at all?
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God bless,
Karen E.
mom to three on earth, and several souls in God's care
Visit my blog, with its shockingly clever title, "Karen Edmisten."
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stefoodie
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| Posted: Jan 08 2007 at 11:06am | IP Logged
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My first reaction is also Karen's first reaction... relax, she's only six.
Also, subtraction (at least here in our house) is very different from addition. With addition, they were having so much fun with it, especially on long car rides, even without prompting they'd launch these addition games that lasted quite a while. I don't know *why* subtraction hasn't inspired the same kind of interest here. My 10-yo also did very well with both addition and subtraction, BUT the multiplication took a while, or at least by "public school standards". He's 10 1/2 now and the multiplication still isn't an automatic thing to him. He still uses his fingers sometimes. The 8-yo is really quick with addition now, but he still takes time with subtraction.
They'll be ready when they're ready. I'd say just don't worry about it. I know that's easier said than done, but one of the things that really helped us here with math was when MOM learned to relax about it. So I hope that helps you in some way.
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stef
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J.Anne
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| Posted: Jan 08 2007 at 11:27am | IP Logged
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Karen, Stef, thank you for your words. The problem is far more mine than hers. She is my first and I am terribly nervous about all this. This is the first problem we have run into, and I am having trouble with losing my patience. Thank you for taking the time to respond. You have made me feel much better.
Jennifer
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Angel
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| Posted: Jan 08 2007 at 5:52pm | IP Logged
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She may just need more time spent with concrete materials. My 7 yo dd seems to be sort of the same way. Numbers have no meaning to her unless she can use her hands with them. She can practice her basic facts over and over and over again, and still, if you ask her, "What's 5+3", she'll say, "I don't know, 7? 9? 10?"
But if you put the problem in a real-life setting, or if you let her use manipulatives, she can get much higher concepts. She still needs to know her basic facts, though, which *is* frustrating. But I try to keep in mind that it's frustrating to her as well.
--Angela
Three Plus Two
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ALmom
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| Posted: Jan 08 2007 at 7:03pm | IP Logged
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At 6 I really would not worry about this much. The bigger danger, especially that young, is pushing too much and making math distasteful. However, if you want to play some games with numbers, you may want to see what she really understands. Can she see 6 objects in your hand and quickly identify them as 6 objects without counting? Before subtraction you generally need a really deep grasp of addition. If these are not there, then real life sorting laundry, beans, counting, guessing how many are in your hand, playing games with dice, etc. are more valuable than any book. However, if these skills are there, then you might have fun playing the following game after dropping math for a while and any bad feelings toward it and then emphasize the game aspect and the fun - ie short, lots of squeels and great jobs with lots in it for her:
Get a upside down bowl and marshmellows (or something
yummy she loves to eat that is a treat and not everyday fare) and play a guessing game. Show her how many marshmellows are in your hand, then hide some under the bowl and show her what is left in your hand. If she "guesses" correctly, then she gets to eat the marshmellows. No big deal if they don't guess correctly all the time - as it is "guessing" right? It is amazing how quickly they grasp the concept when there is a point to it - and no pressure! Do it with one fact family at a time - and don't start anywhere higher than what combines for her age. Ie make her really successful first - that also does wonders!
When she is older/ ready - then you can have little cards with numbers on them and a card with the addition or subtraction sign. Then play the game again, showing how to represent it with the numbers and let her show what she is doing using the cards and eventually writing them. You may not need to do it as the children often make this connection easily - but some need a bit of help to see it. Some of the more advanced thinking about numbers comes later. Get the basics solid first, it will make math and life so much easier in the long term. It won't matter that much that you wait a while and let real life do some of the fact/math teaching. It may actually help avoid the math freeze. With all the people I have tutored in math, none were really incapable of doing a great job at math - they simply had no confidence with it and were afraid. Patiently helping college students with basic Algebra, I'd see it over and over again. Once they had confidence, they no longer needed a tutor. They just needed someone to be patient, ask them questions and let them discover and never make them feel dumb. Setting them up for success by only asking what they could do, and then asking the next ?, until they had solved their own problem, really built the confidence.
Really, don't worry and have fun with math and your child. Just my 2 cents.
Janet
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J.Anne
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| Posted: Jan 09 2007 at 8:21am | IP Logged
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Angela and Janet - Thank you both for the advice as well.
Janet : The game idea sounds great. I am not sure she can "see" number without counting.
Jennifer
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Leonie
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| Posted: Jan 09 2007 at 4:39pm | IP Logged
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Everyone has given you great advice - relax , she is six, she'll get it.
I also tend to think that a little bit of practice doesn't hurt - and no oral quizzes, they often make a child feel "put on the spot."
At work ( Kumon) I will do some subtraction problems with a child, if they seem to be struggling - we will do them orally, together, using a number line or number chart or a ruler if needed. I will act as scribe.
So, the practice and maturity often makes a differece.
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J.Anne
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| Posted: Jan 11 2007 at 4:43am | IP Logged
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Thank you everyone. It is so nice to have someone tell me not to worry just yet! I fear I've been a little overly anxious with her lately.
Jennifer
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Karen E.
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| Posted: Jan 11 2007 at 7:34am | IP Logged
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J.Anne wrote:
I fear I've been a little overly anxious with her lately.
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We've all been there ...
We all return there on a regular basis ...
Then we come here to vent ...
Then we realize we're not doing such a bad job after all.
Isn't it great? 
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God bless,
Karen E.
mom to three on earth, and several souls in God's care
Visit my blog, with its shockingly clever title, "Karen Edmisten."
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J.Anne
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| Posted: Jan 11 2007 at 7:57am | IP Logged
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Indeed it is Karen! I don't know how I got along last year without you all. You have made my outlook so much brighter!
Jennifer
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4Real Forums : Living and Loving Numbers
Topic: Frustrated
