| Author | |
mary
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 17 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 691
|
| Posted: Feb 18 2006 at 6:52am | IP Logged
|
 |
|
i've been using singapore math for 3 years (i have a 7 and 5 yr old). every year i think hmm, maybe i should try mathusee. currently, getting the 7 yr old to do math is difficult although he understands the work. the 5 yr old is cruising through, but the older child did as well at that book level.
has anyone done both of these programs? could you give me a comparison of the two? which you prefer and why? thanks!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
mary
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 17 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 691
|
| Posted: Feb 19 2006 at 6:42pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
anybody?
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
ALmom
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 18 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3299
|
| Posted: Feb 19 2006 at 8:22pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Well I have both Math-U-See and Singapore.
Both emphasise mathematical thinking and moving from the concrete (hands-on) to the symbolic with lots of word problems to make sure they know when to use which operations, etc. Singapore math does a better job with geometry concepts and with measurements (length, weight, an excellent expression of the difference between mass and weight) and experience with both the English and metric system.
Math-U-See has a video and there are some very nifty manipulatives for things like fractions.
Sorry, I gotta go - but will finish this in a bit.
Janet
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
ALmom
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 18 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3299
|
| Posted: Feb 19 2006 at 9:38pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I must give the caveat - I was hesitant to answer this post at first as we ordered and used our Math-U-See when 14 yo was about 9 and I know the texts have been revised since then - so our assessments may not apply to the new program. Also, we have not used Singapore very long - just a week and we may be experiencing the simple delight of something different and feel you'd get better info from someone who has used it for a couple of years.
Math - U- See has a teacher's book with explanations on how to use their manipulatives to teach the concept concretely but I don't remember a lot of ideas beyond that for the teacher (they kind of expected the teacher to be a teacher and come up with examples relevant to the child). This book also had a lot of the measurement stuff in it - but I had to remember to actually do it with dc - and it was more in the line of skip counting rather than concrete measurement skills.
We have looked at the Homeschool guide for the Singapore Math and found it full of very tangible ideas on how to show and practice concepts concretely with common household items. They do have manipulatives that you can purchase but these were not as central to the program and most of us could use whatever we had available. I really was impressed with the introduction of angles and parallel and perpindicular lines from early on.
Both programs have a student workbook that can be written in and is designed as a consumable. The space alloted to the child to answer questions and the contrast is excellent in both. Neither is so busy as to be distracting. Singapore Math does have a few sketches of multi-racial children - and sketches of any kind drive my 11 yo ds nuts (the one reason he is turned off to Singapore) but I do not think they are terribly distracting - just not all that necessary to the math. The biggest difference is the size of the workbook - Singapore Math's is actually much shorter and very, very un-intimidating, yet very thourough. You can order additional books if dc needs extra practice and they have tons of ideas in the teacher's books for games, hands-on activities, etc.
My overall impression is that Singapore Math is a much more systematic approach than anything else I've seen and easier for the parent to use as ideas/suggestions are more layed out for the teacher - yet without neglecting lots of hands on doing and without overkill. Math-U-See was a great, quick gentle introduction to a lot of different concepts and I love having it around but never felt comfortable using it more than 1 year for dc. (Again I'm using the older program)
I must say that our family really tends to like organized, sequential type programs (I'm kinda picky about this as I think one of the reasons children develop math blocks is poor organization of a text - being slavishly systematic in building step by step with the base is very helpful in teaching math, imo and Singapore Math is the first text we've seen that I felt like I could sense the order and beauty that I had felt about math with my math texts in school. I really like the way Singapore does that. Math-U-See had some great ideas and some unique ways to introduce concepts and I do pull this program out from time to time. I'm very glad I have the program and I still find it very useful and weave aspects of it in to whatever we do. However, it just doesn't come across to me quite as well thought out from start to finish as Singapore math does. It's hard for me to pinpoint exactly what it is - I think it is building the base and building on it - but they have really thought out what the base should be and teach a whole concept together rather than truncating it into unrecognizable parts. Math-U-See does a good job of introducing the concepts it deals with, but I feel that it leaves a lot of holes if you use it year after year after year. We tended to use it for the Intermediate Level and then move on. Somehow measurement, angles, math vocabulary, metric to decimal conversions are weaker in Math-U-See, imo. There is some mental math, but more emphasis on memorizing facts - skip counting etc. Singapore really has them do things in their head by recognizing number relationships (ie mathematical thinking)and this then becomes a basis for later algorithms for adding and carrying. They point out these patterns to dc in a systematic way and don't just count on dc "getting it". I really, really like this about Singapore.
The one thing my dc find that really turned them off to Math-U-See was seeing such young children (looked about 8 yo) doing Algebra. It was kind of a confidence thing. But then my dc tend to hate visuals for math - manipulatives are ok but they hate pictures in a math text, and the children on the videos just annoyed them.
Math-U-See is more expensive because you really do need their manipulatives for the program. I really did like doing the Intermediate year and since I have the program, I find that I use it for a quick concept introduction, especially if dc is having trouble with whatever way it was shown in the text we are using at the time. (It's always great to have another way to try and present something if dc are stuck) I also think Math-U-See does one of the best jobs with place value in their program. I'm not sure I'd order it now - but since I have it we certainly use it.
Hope this helps some. But please ask someone who has the revised Math-U-See as I don't know what changes have been made to their texts.
Janet
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Rebecca
Forum All-Star
Joined: Dec 30 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1898
|
| Posted: Feb 19 2006 at 11:06pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Mary,
I have never used Singapore but our children have used the kindergarten, third and fourth "grade" Math-U-See. I have nothing but positive things to say about it. It really turned my math hater into a math lover. We do have the manipulatives but they only need to be bought once and can be shared by all the children. The children's workbook is the only consumable book each year.
The premise of Math-U-See is that the child masters one mathematical function before moving on to the next. For example, the third grade book is all multiplication, fourth grade is division. There is no spiral approach. I know that many people like the spiral approach but my son hated the constant switching of concepts offered in books like Abeka. We like that he learns all there is to know about multiplication before moving on to division, etc.
Hope this helps,
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
teachingmyown
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 20 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5128
|
| Posted: Feb 20 2006 at 9:13am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Mary,
I would encourage you to look honestly at your teaching style and the time and energy you have to put into it.
I am not a hands-on person. That didn't stop me from buying Math-U-See and later Right Start Math! But because of my personality and split attention, I was not able to do justice to either program.
I am using Singapore with my second grader and just ordered it for my 6 yr old and 4 yr old. I really like it! It seems very CM to me. We sit on the couch with the text and talk about the concepts and then my son goes to the table to do the workbook. I hope to switch my 4th grader to it next year. She is using ABeka still and although it is getting more difficult she hates change! (I can't imagine where she got that trait!  )
Anyway, just my 2 cents. The point is no matter how great a program is, if you won't or can't use it, it is worthless.
__________________
In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
lilac hill
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 15 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 643
|
| Posted: Feb 20 2006 at 10:51am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Mary,
We are MUS fans here.Singabpore did not work for us.
My girls are math haters, MUS was great for my visual learner, DD#2.After skimming through the Intermediate program (old edition) to familiarize us with the method, we went to Advanced then Algebra. That dd went to public school last March and went into an Algebra class. Hard to believe but she had no problems, understood what was going on.
Generally we watch the teaching video together. I come up with a few examples and dd#3 works for 20 minutes a day. The student text pages are printed on one side of the page so the left hand page is blank, a great place for working out the problem if necessary. DD#3 did have trouble with long division, but with 2 weeks in a supplemental division workbook , purchased at B&N, we dove back into MUS.
Have not looked at levels above Algebra, and did not review them because we were so successful at the upper levels with DD#2. Not sure how it will play out with dd#3, but plan on purchasing the next level(Epsilon) next week.
You might want to check Ebay for MUS materials, they usually have stuff, just check the price with shipping, my local distriubuter did better than the ebay price for the books.
__________________
Viv
Wife to Rick (7/83), Mom to dd#1(6/87), dd#2(1/90), and dd#3(6/94) in central PA.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
mary
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 17 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 691
|
| Posted: Feb 20 2006 at 4:18pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
thank you all for your comments about the two programs. I'm no more decided than i was before!
i wonder if there really is no perfect math program? that teaching math is like teaching phonics and it's a bit of whatever works for each kid? or perhaps there is nothing that will make practice carrying during addition and subtraction 'fun?'
i have heard pple say that math is a serious weakness for most homeschooled kids. in looking at my own children already, i can see that i am far less rigorous with them than my own school experience.
thoughts about teaching math welcome! 
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
ALmom
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 18 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3299
|
| Posted: Feb 20 2006 at 5:16pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I do think math must be taught systematically - you build step by step. In the younger years, having a solid idea of relationships and size, measurement, place value, and basic math operations can all develop pretty naturally from things we do at home - but we do have to be conscious of our "scope and sequence" even if it is a very simple one. If our dc become stumped or math phobic, this, imo, is a sign that something didn't click in the basics so now the newer stuff makes no sense. It is important to find out what it is that isn't understood concept wise and really build it.
I do not think that you have to cram every conceivable concept into a youngsters head. I really like doing a few things very well and building on solid rock. In my opinion, this makes it less likely to topple and more likely that dc will make the connections between one concept and another - but spot check to be sure it does happen.
If you are going to be teaching your child math, then be sure that you have a text that YOU are comfortable with. You have to be able to grasp what the text is trying to get across so that if dc gets stuck, you begin to know what things to ask and work on to find out where the disconnect is. If you don't like the text, then you'll end up fighting the tendency to just hand it to dc and they teach themselves - and often there are a bunch of things frustrating them before you even know there is something wrong. But even worse, if you cannot follow what the text is trying to teach or are confused yourself - the dc will really get confused if they don't quickly grasp the explanation themselves. Now, if you can quickly comprehend the text yourself, then if dc doesn't get the way it is explained in the text, at least you know and can then explain it some other way - because you know what they were trying to get at and accomplish and you can substitute a different road to the same goal.
The more "handicapped" you feel in math, the more you will want easy and neat explanations that make the math click for YOU. Look at DVDs, teacher support materials, explanations of concepts and see if it helps you understand. This is much more important, imo, than the student book. Once you know what you are teaching, then you can use and modify just about anything in math and have a better idea of your child and what they need. After all, math is a language and you have to have practice using it and someone to model it for you.
Then once you have narrowed down a few programs that seem to make sense to you, look at the student books and see what will work best with dc. If they are intimidated by thick books, pictures all over the place, then don't pick the program that has a student text like that. If there are things missing that you think dc will need - like sufficient repetition then think about how easy it would be to come up with additional practice for the program, etc. If it is seriously deficient in the student book and you know you won't have time to implement it in the long run, you may have to go back and reassess and chose something you aren't as in love with - but that will work better overall. But the best thing is to have a great book for the teacher which also works for the child.
It's hard to look at it this way as it seems sort of selfish to make sure You like the text when the student will be using it - but you know your own strengths and weaknesses and what you need to help you really help your child.
For instance - I have to have a fairly easy answer key to follow, not because I cannot work out the problems but because if it takes me 3 hours to grade one lesson because I cannot figure out which answers go to which lessons or I have to switch back and forth between a thousand different things, then homework assingments don't get graded frequently enough for me to note patterns and really help. In math, daily checking of assignments is probably the single most important thing I do. You don't want them practicing the same mistake over and over and then have to unlearn it.
I am weaker in mental math and anything 3 dimensional. I also don't generally have a good sense of distance, length, weight, etc. I rely on a ruler. I like programs that show me how to help my dc develop this skill. Since, I didn't develop it, I'm not likely to know how to teach it. I am great at going very step by step through a problem, manipulating algebraicly, etc. If a program is slightly weaker in this area, I might be able to cope with it if everything else is strong because I'll know how to explain it with or without a text. However, I had some aah haa moments with Math-U-See when they talked about mental math techniques - also in Singapore Math. So the program we settle on ends up having to fit both me and the dc - but where there are occasional misfits with dc, I can always find something to fill in the gap for them because I understand it.
Hope this makes some sense.
Janet
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MichelleM
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 12 2006
Location: Colorado
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 113
|
| Posted: Feb 20 2006 at 5:29pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Mary,
I can really relate. I struggle with deciding how to teach math as well. I searched and searched for the "perfect" math curriculum. I finally settled on RightStart two years ago. I truly thought it was the perfect curriculum but here I am intently reading the posts contemplating changing to Singapore or MUS.
My problem with RightStart is that I find that the lessons are just too long so we rarely get to it. (We've been working in level B for two years which covers addition!  ) I do have to say though that when we do get to it my dc love math & beg for more!
After trying MCP & a little Singapore, which my dd hated and because I LOVE the idea behind RS, I've decided I would try using RightStart's Math Card Games to practice math facts and basic concepts. The children love them and my dh can play them with the children while I cook dinner. That's the plan atleast for now. 
Many blessings on your math journey!
__________________
~Michelle
Mommy to 5 Blessings
Visit my blog: House of Grace
Our nature blog: All of Creation
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
mary
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 17 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 691
|
| Posted: Feb 28 2006 at 4:57pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
michelle, now i'm going to have to go look at RS math.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
Forum Locked) 
4Real Forums : Living and Loving Numbers
Topic: mathusee vs singapore
