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rm4mrfrus
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Hi,
I have more questions, especially for my 10ds. I am looking for a better idea for helping him with spelling. I have used curriculum lists in the past and it has not done much at all. (I have used both Seton's and Chc's spelling) He is pretty awful with spelling and I am not sure how to go about helping him improve.
My 8dd is a natural speller and loves it. She loves lists and for a while was going through a list a day just for fun. He is beginning to feel a bit upset that she is a much better speller than he is (a bit of competition coming out - even though we talk often about each of us having different gifts).
I am thinking of just making a list from his writing, but he also hates writing so I was going to have him start out doing a lot of narrations to me which I will write for him. This means he won't have a lot of misspelled words to go on at first. I hope to transition him into doing more writing himself as the year progresses but don't anticipate much at the beginning.
He is a strong reader but I don't know how to use that to improve his spelling.....
thanks again!
Hollee
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Erin
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Hollee,
My ds11, is not a good speller either, he tends to leave ALL or most of the vowels out, even he can't often read what he has written later. In fact none of my children have been good spellers until this year.
We have tried various approaches, actually they did alright with the lists but not upon application. The best method that is finally working with us is daily dictation, see Copywork and Dictation the amazing thing is that once the children got used to it they don't mind dictation and they are taking pride in their improvement.
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Elizabeth
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Hollee,
I think the real key to spelling is to figure out how they take in information. A child who is very visual--for whom remembering how a word looks is easy--is going to be a "natural" speller. He sees the word and it imprints on his bain and that's all there is to it. I don't think it really matters what kind of spelling program you use with that child. FWIW, I don't think tey need a program at all. They just need lots of exposure to print and some copywork and dictation.
A child who has difficulty processing visually and prefers to learn by hearing things is not going to be a ready speller. Some kids can read an entire 300 page novel and not tell you how to spell the main character's first name. For those children, look into an auditory spelling program like Phonetic Zoo. And, some of us have had some success with AVKO spelling, a systematic program which uses rimes (word families) to teach spelling. Though designed for dyslexics, it's not limited to them.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Rebecca
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Elizabeth wrote:
| I think the real key to spelling is to figure out how they take in information. |
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How do you figure it out? This hit me hard when I read it. Ben has struggled with spelling all along. He has trouble with even the smallest words. I just thought we weren't being diligent enough in the spelling programs we have used. I used to use CHC workbooks and then switched to Spelling Power. He says he likes Spelling Power but is not retaining anything even from the first list. He is ten years old this month. I have been reading many, many quality books over the years and I always thought the spelling would take off from the exposure to great literature but it hasn't.
Any suggestions?
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Victoria in AZ
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Spelling has been the thorn in our sides at our home too. Repeatedly I read that if a child was a good reader, they would become good spellers. This did not happen for ds. We have used so many spelling programs I have literally lost track.
Andrew Pudewa (author of Phonetic Zoo) does not even suggest a spelling program until 4th grade.
My 8 yo recently had standardized testing and she was way below grade level for spelling. The test administrator suggested I have dd create her very own spelling notebook. Every time she comes to us and asks, "How do you spell xyz?" we are to spell it for her and have her add the word to her own reference book (so it sounds like you are on the right track, Hollee).
This program was also recommended
www.readwritetype.com
Your idea not to mix narration and spelling is a good one, in my opinion. I did the same thing for my son. I sat at the keyboard while he narrated until he was a young teen. I was more interested in his ability to recall a story than to compose and spell for narration.
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Victoria in AZ
dh Mike 24 yrs; ds Kyle 18; dd Katie 12; and one funny pug
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SuzanneT
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Hollee,
My oldest,ds 16, is a natural speller (inherited from my side of the family  ) He just always seemed to know how to spell. So, naturally I thought my dd 14 and dd 11 would be the same...however, they inherited from my husband's side I feel as if I've tried every spelling book/program out there. The Writing Road to Reading has helped quite a bit. We've spent quite a lot of time memorizing the phonograms and rules and I'm starting to see some improvement. My youngest also uses the Word Power Through Spelling books.
Suzanne
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Elizabeth
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Victoria in AZ wrote:
| The test administrator suggested I have dd create her very own spelling notebook. Every time she comes to us and asks, "How do you spell xyz?" we are to spell it for her and have her add the word to her own reference book (so it sounds like you are on the right track, Hollee). |
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This is the key component in the method used by Gayle Graham (Gayle happens to be one of my personal all-time homeschooling heroes).
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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BrendaPeter
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I'm in the same boat as Hollee with my oldest ds (12). I appreciate everyone's suggestions & really think Elizabeth hit the nail on the head. My son is extremely auditory. He has enjoyed being read to since birth & loves books on tape. He remembers everything he hears. It took him awhile to learn how to read but he enjoys it & reads quite a bit. I've always been concerned that his reading is fairly slow & when he reads aloud he skips or adds words. I recently learned that he actually has a visual problem called under-convergence & he now wears glasses with prisms. I bought him a spelling workbook for the upcoming year but I don't have alot of confidence that it will do the trick. I'm off to look into all the good suggestions!
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rm4mrfrus
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thank you everyone for your suggestions! These are so helpful!
Elizabeth, you nailed our children....dd is a very visual learner (and was good at spelling even when we did not do a program) and our ds is very auditory. He loves books on tape and hearing stories. I will look into the suggestions you all posted!
Victoria, did you start a spelling notebook for your dd? How is it working out?
Suzanne, I have the WRTR but never looked through it all the way. It seemed so daunting! I will have to take another look.
Brenda, Your ds and mine sound ALOT alike! How did you get his visual problem diagnosed?
I will be looking at all these great ideas for ds and just let dd keep doing what she loves...memorizing lists!
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Hollee married to dh in 94,
ds(96), dd(97), ds(00), ds(02), ds(03) and dd(05)
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BrendaPeter
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rm4mrfrus wrote:
Brenda, Your ds and mine sound ALOT alike! How did you get his visual problem diagnosed? |
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Hi Hollee,
We have a friend whose daughter has over-convergence & she recommended that we take our son to a pediatric optometrist. This website is pretty helpful. Unfortunately the whole issue is somewhat controversial as ophthamologists & optometrists are not entirely in agreement. Personally, my son's glasses have not been as helpful as we'd like. The doctor has recommended vision therapy which we're considering. My husband just learned that he basically has the same problem & yet he managed to graduate from medical school - go figure! He's actually quite visual so we assume that he found a way to compensate. Homeschooling my son from the beginning may have enhanced those auditory tendencies. It's hard to say.
I looked into AVKO & Gayle Graham's method & they look great! I printed out the AVKO worksheets & I'm quite impressed. I haven't seen anything like them. Thank you Elizabeth for the suggestions.
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Brenda (mom to 6)
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Elizabeth
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BrendaPeter wrote:
Homeschooling my son from the beginning may have enhanced those auditory tendencies. It's hard to say.
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Brenda,
You picked up on an interesting point. While I think it's a good thing that my son has learned as much as he has auditorally, I wonder if I've over-compensated unknowingly. That is, I played to his strengths instinctively by providing so much auditory learning but I haven't pushed at all in the visual realm. So, he's really done no strengthening exercises, no therapy, so to speak...Just thinking out loud...
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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TracyQ
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Our son had vision therapy for 6 months with an occupational therapist in his behaviorial optometrist's office (with daily home therapy. The difference after he had it was remarkable to me!
We still struggle with his difficulties (and I say we because it's difficult for me as well teaching him), but Zach could barely read a level 3 reader going into the therapy, and afterwards, read the entire Lord of the Rings series. He read it slowly, but he read it! To me, that was an incredible change, and something he never could have done before that.
He went from taking literally hours to do one subject, to being the child of my three that gets up, takes the most inititative, and is often the first to finish his work! He is not only very motivated, he tries hard because he has the ability through his therapy.
We still struggle with timed standardized tests, but we're working on it. He also drifts off too from time to time still, but he's such an analytical thinker, and is so deep in thought most times, that he needs to be able to learn to control that.
We're starting high school at home this year. Time will tell how he does, but I'm confident vision therapy has helped him tremendously.
He's also very auditory (I think as a result of his vision learning therapy). That astounded me when I realized that, because he only has one ear, he has a rare ear deformity called Mycrotia, and has a moderate hearing loss in his left ear, with no canal, and no middle ear (the bones fused together). He only hears through the working nerve through the bone in his ear. So I never thought he'd be auditory, but with vision problems too, he has to listen carefully, so I think he became very auditory. 
He's not a good speller, and not a natural speller at all as a result of all of this. We do use Avko spelling some with him, and I need to do better with it. What we have used of it I think is excellent, because they can see the spelling patterns, and I think that's very helpful to them.
Children's Vision Children's Vision site has been helpful to us in determining our course of action with him. We were blessed to have a behavioral optometrist within 10 minutes of us. That's hard to find. It was very expensive, and insurance doesn't cover it, because they see vision learning difficulties as a learning problem, not a physical problem, and it's expensive. But it was the best $3,000 we've ever spent!
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Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
 homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
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Elizabeth
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Tracy, I have microtia, too. I have no right ear at all and hearing loss in my left ear. I'm definitely at least as auditory as I am visual (though I'm a good speller--terrible typist, good speller). Auditory input can overwhelm me (like in a homeschool conference vendor setting where there is a lot of competing noise), but I love to learn by song or books on tape.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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BrendaPeter
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TracyQ wrote:
| Our son had vision therapy for 6 months with an occupational therapist in his behaviorial optometrist's office (with daily home therapy. The difference after he had it was remarkable to me! |
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Thanks Tracy! That is so encouraging!
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Brenda (mom to 6)
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BrendaPeter
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Elizabeth wrote:
BrendaPeter wrote:
Homeschooling my son from the beginning may have enhanced those auditory tendencies. It's hard to say.
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Brenda,
You picked up on an interesting point. While I think it's a good thing that my son has learned as much as he has auditorally, I wonder if I've over-compensated unknowingly. That is, I played to his strengths instinctively by providing so much auditory learning but I haven't pushed at all in the visual realm. So, he's really done no strengthening exercises, no therapy, so to speak...Just thinking out loud... |
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Hi Elizabeth,
I know exactly what you mean as I have thought about that alot - i.e. did I play too much into his strengths vs. honing in on his weaknesses. Having my husband as an example really brought it to the surface in that his convergence problem is as severe as my son's yet my husband's a good speller! It's so challenging when Mom is teacher & when we don't want "relationship" to suffer. Such a delicate balance...
I take comfort in the fact that God called us to homeschool & that He has it all under control. God must have a plan to put my son's truly amazing auditory retention to good use! Thankfully we're aware of the situation & can now help our children develop their skills in their weaker areas. Guess that's what the "curriculum of love" is all about.
btw - Elizabeth, I have no idea of what the plans include for your son but one very visual exercise that we've used is the video from Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain.
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Brenda (mom to 6)
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BrendaPeter
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Just one more thought here on spelling that really has to do with learning to read. I used "How to Teach Your Child" for my 1st 4 dc & I've realized that it's probably a fine method for those visual, natural spellers we've talked about. My 1st ds & my 3rd ds who both have visual problems could have used something different. With my 3rd ds (7 years old), I'm currently using Phonics Pathways and it seems to be working better with him. If anyone else has any other suggestions or can lead me to another thread on the topic, feel free.
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Brenda (mom to 6)
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Victoria in AZ
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rm4mrfrus wrote:
Victoria, did you start a spelling notebook for your dd? How is it working out?
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Not yet  I'm hoping to find a spiral notebook with A-Z tabs at the office supply store.
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Your sister in Christ,
Victoria in AZ
dh Mike 24 yrs; ds Kyle 18; dd Katie 12; and one funny pug
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ALmom
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Don't kick yourself about vision problems and working to the strengths. I really think of that as a blessing of homeschooling - as you work to find out how to help the weaknesses, the child doesn't just stagnate. They then have an area to help them gain confidence as they work on their weakness. My dd with vision problems has developed a really good ear for music - is it from exposure that others didn't have (perhaps), is it because her ear developed when she couldn't really see correctly (probably) - but in any case it is a beautiful gift and God's permitting will was well aware of all the different aspects of when we would finally find the right person to give us the answers to our questions about why she struggled so with so many academic things despite an obvious high intelligence in terms of vocabulary and conversation. Somehow this is all part of the plan for this child. We keep on doing the best we can as parents and leaving the rest to God (easier said than done most of the time).
We too have had vision problems and related spelling issues. We didn't know about AVKO, so I don't know if it is easier to use than the WRR with all the TRH and the spelling notebook. The big key for us was that the program added an analytical component. (I wouldn't use it with a very young child but it has been great remediating older dc who are very, very poor spellers). This way our dc with visual memory problems, doesn't have to just remember - he reasons out why you spell the word the way you do. It also involves marking the words certain ways to reinforce this reasoning. It has really, really helped both dc with vision problems (once the underlying problem of eye weakness and suppression was corrected) to overcome years of inability to spell.
Since we've had a lot of dc with vision problems, you find that different dc compensate in different ways. In our family one of us did a lot of sports and due to interest, whatever, managed to compensate - but wouldn't read and still has difficulty with reading comprehension. I focused on academics because I was such a clutz, to this day I walk into walls, cannot write a straight line even with a ruler - eventually I got near sighted and developed astigmatism (but I cannot stand to use my glasses with astigmatism correction to read and am having more and more trouble as I age. I also am very, very scared of backing into something or someone because I don't always see. But I was slow - just diligent, so my stress level was always high and I didn't have much time for any outside activities beyond school. I did become a bookworm and always had my nose in a book. I also managed to temporarily impress some folks with soccer - mostly because I wasn't intimidated by the big guys - I never saw them. They put me in as goalie and quickly lost all favorable opinion - I couldn't stop a single ball - never even saw it once the forward made contact. My dad reads fast. My aunt and I both developed an awesome memory - my aunt said hers was a conscious decision as she didn't want to have to go back through the book, it was just too hard on her eyes. My son on the other hand, missed the time when visual memory naturally develops and we actually had to do therapy to overcome this. He had to work very hard to remember anything he read - but likes to go off with visual material and take his time with it. Yet, all of us have the same basic eye muscle weakness - with poor convergence, inabiltiy to adjust focus and suppression of one eye (binocularity problems)(some suppressed one eye and developed true amblyopia and some alternately suppressed an eye). Some of our dc developed problems with visual memory, visual form, visual closure, etc. Some of us developed near-sightedness instead. I have no directionality. So while there may be a lot of common patterns, there are very unique differences depending on just which vision processing skills did or did not develop. With one of ours, all her visual processing problems disappeared as soon as she completed therapy. With another, we've still had to work at learning the processing side of things. Yet we caught both dc at about the same age. So much is still not known about why and how. With our family history, I have to believe there is a hereditary component - but most of what you read will only talk about the developmental component (and when our dc were first diagnosed, we agonized over how we missed the signs and what did we do wrong that they didn't develop the skills - we weren't on the computer back then, didn't watch TV, our kids were outside climbing trees, walking along the edge of sidewalks, etc., we didn't push schooling early, ...) Now I'm just glad there are so many things that can be done. The optometrist we worked with actually helped a high schooler get into west point - a life long dream dashed because the academy found the vision problem when most people think it is too late to correct - but it is corrected and his picture in the west point academy uniform greets everyone in the office. We had to go out of state to get this help - but it has made huge differences for our dc - we're still at it with the youngest - and now I'm seeing what I can accomplish alongside them (not going to spend mega bucks at my age, but maybe even I can get some benefits). My dh father (retired now) but worked in this line for many, many years - back right after WWII so this is not just some new fad recently come up. Insurance paid for therapy for many years in some states - about 5 years ago they reclassified the therapy as experimental so they don't pay anymore). However, your MDs do not recognize this as real - the neurologist we consulted gave us meaningless diagnosis because they did not recognize this - but admitted that she'd seen the therapy help some - surmised that it simply helped them concentrate. I don't really care - it is totally safe, it has worked wonders for our family.
Janet
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Zeliemum
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I know this seems like an old thread, but I would like to ask the mum's who used the CHC spelling what they thought of it and why you thought it wasn't for you and your dc.  We are considering using it.
I understand it may take a while to get a responce as this discussion has passed and kind of changed direction but I am intrigued.
Look forward to any comments.
Chemai
Mum of 7 with many in heaven
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ALmom
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CHC was fine for one of my dc. It didn't work well for my other older dc.
The CHC speller (like most spelling programs) relys heavily on visual memory. It is easy to use, has a reasonable variety of activities using the words, is fairly inexpensive and short and to the point. It uses word families which create a jumping off point for discussing patterns in spelling so that when the child learns the 15 words in the list, they should also know an indefinite number of words following similiar rules.
My oldest was a fabulous memorizer. I don't think any spelling program would have worked for her. She simply memorized the words, passed the test (usually with a perfect score) and kept on mis-spelling the words in written work. The best solution for her was to use spell check and look up the words it tagged as mis-spelled. She eventually got tired of looking up the same words over and over and finally just learned them. She is not a fabulous speller, but she is respectable at it.
My next two children had vision problems and this meant any program relying on visual memory was not going to help them much. I used Writing Road to Reading with the Sanseri how to book and the Spelling notebook. It used phonics and rules, active marking of words, some oral discussion and a lot of reasoning to why the words were spelled as they were - including syllibication. It required that I dictate words before they were seen with the child reasoning to how they were spelled. It was very teacher intensive and would not have been worth it for a child without difficulties - but for these children it was a huge success. The oldest here, is the best speller in the family. The other child is just starting the program so I'll have to see what happens in the next few years - but I have seen major improvements.
The next child seems to be a natural speller and I'm not sure if he needs a program or not. However, he likes CHC fine, and seems to spell words correctly from the program in his written work as well as on the test. CHC is a fairly light spelling program and since he seems to like it, we do it. I think it is good for his handwriting practice as he needs that more than anything. I'm not a stickler about it.
My others are not reading yet, so obviously we are not doing spelling with them. Since CHC is fairly simple and easy, and not terribly expensive, I'll probably try it as a first course. However, I am not all that big on spelling programs. It can certainly be done just as well by following mis-spelled words in their own work, etc. I do them for the extra writing practice as long as the children find them enjoyable - unless it becomes obvious that a child needs more and is not a natural speller.
I guess what I am saying is that any program could work just fine - depending on the child. There is nothing wrong with starting out with what is easiest on you and inexpensive and seeing how it goes. Of course this could be as simple as picking spelling words from written work, using spell-check. I do think it is helpful to have some sense of rules so that the child can extrapolite to other words and also some word families for the same reason. Watch to make sure that the child is not getting bogged down, is actually spelling the spelling workbook words correctly in his own written work and not just in the spelling book. If you need to make adjustments - then do. Sometimes you do have to experiment a bit - but know your own child and that will help you find the program that fits well for you and the child.
Janet
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4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: Spelling suggestions?
