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lapazfarm
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| Posted: July 01 2006 at 7:02pm | IP Logged
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Just wondering, and this may sound like an incredibly basic question, but...
How many of you do copywork and dictation on a regular basis, and what exactly does that look like in your home?
I was just wondering because it seems so foundational to CM, and yet we rarely discuss it (there is more on narration) and so I am a little vague on how you ladies do them, or even IF you do them.
We do copywork, but only occasionally as the mood strikes,like a poem or prayer or passage that ds wants to put up or add to a notebook. And we never do dictation as it just seem so artificial to me. Maybe I just need some examples???
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Erin
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Theresa,
We do copywork daily. Not a lot, my ds the same age as yours would do one to two lines a day. This child intends on being an author but doesn't really enjoy copywork. However he does need to improve his handwriting. We have done copywork for years, dd12, has beautiful script writing and has copied many of the Psalms over time. She is now enjoying writing poetry. Ds11 is only just now starting to enjoy it a little. Ds11 writing has really improved this year.
At the end of last year after trying various methods to improve spelling we turned to dictation. By this I mean consistent daily dictation. Ds11 and younger do studied dictation, they look at the passage, study spelling and then I dictate. We started with 2 sentences and ds11 is up to a paragraph, about 3 to 4 sentences. Dd has progressed to dictation without first studying it. We use the Queensland readers which are a collection of beautiful stories and poems used in schools early in the century. I also use these for their copywork sentences sometimes.
Finally I am seeing a huge improvement in their spelling particualrly the older two  This really works for our family. Before they would often get their spelling correct (they liked doing it the Laura Ingalls way) but when it came to writing they couldn't always read their own writing after they had written it. It never bothered them though. But for some reason since we have started consistent dictation they are taking more care.
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marianne
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This is SO wierd, I think, but my kids love dictation. They see it like a contest - who can get the most words right? I'll tell you exactly how we did it last year - they were 8 and 7.
I used the Beginner's Bible and selected a passage for the week - the passage might be 3-4 sentences and I would give my older one an extra sentence or two. We start on Monday, and I just read it out loud and they write down what they can. Then we correct spelling and punctuation. The next day, they can study the day before's corrected paper beforehand. Then I read it aloud and they write out what they can. Same on Wednesday, Thursday, and if needed Friday. So we're using the same passage for a week, but almost always by Thursday, sometimes Wednesday, they'd get the whole thing down correctly without help. They enjoyed the challenge of trying to be done for the week, so they didn't get tired of using the same passage over several times.
I tried to keep a theme going for several weeks - lists, quotation marks, capitalization of names and places, certain words that are hard to spell (disciples, for example), ect... They would definitely show improvement from week to week in these areas.
I liked using Bible stories for dictation and I would usually try and correlate the dictation to something we'd recently read about during our regular Bible time. Great reinforcement. Dictation was one of the most successful things we did last year.
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stacykay
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We try to do dictation daily (just my older ds, 11.) We usually get to it 4 days a week. I will start 8yo ds this fall. Dictation is usually from the Children's Bible, or part of a Psalm (he is really into the Psalms! Definitely not something any of the other boys have latched onto!) My oldest (18 and heading to college in fall) wanted dictation only from Redwall, science or history (and civil war only!)
Copywork is everyday. Just a short paragraph, or a couple of sentences for 8yo ds. My 11yo ds does slightly longer paragraphs. The copywork is either scripture or from a book (novel-type) we are reading, or science/history we are reading.
I have seen huge improvements with 11yo this year.
I doesn't take a lot of time. We try to do it right after morning prayer.
God Bless,
Stacy in MI
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Sarah
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My ds10 (almost) likes dictation and copywork (compared to thinking up his own ideas)so we do it frequently during the school year.
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SuzanneT
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Dd11, does daily copywork, of some kind  . Her spelling(Word Power Through Spelling) includes a copy sentence for each lesson, so its copywork for three days and dictation for two We also do a weekly journal entry and usually have a seasonal poem going. Really, not too much dictation yet...
Suzanne
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JuliaT
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We try to do copywork every day. I try to change it up every day,as well. One day we will copy something from the Bible, the next day it may be poetry, then from our history book or from our read aloud.
Julia
http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/Juliainsk/
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lapazfarm
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Thanks, ladies for your imput. It is interesting to see how differently you all use these tools in your homes.
I am wondering...what are your goals for copywork and dicatation?
I mean, I understand dictation works well for grammar and spelling if the passages are chosen with care. For example, if ds needed work on using quotation marks, I would choose a passage that included them, etc.
Or am I making this more complicated than it needs to be? Do you just choose passages you like (Bible passages, or from current reading) and hope it will eventually cover everything? Or do you supplement with additional grammar, and if so, then why bother with dictation? I am trying really hard to understand how this plays out!LOL!
And what about copywork?
It seems some use it for memorization (or familiarization, at least), some for handwriting practice, some for spelling, and some as a first step in dictation. What is the goal here?
I guess I am just very goal oriented and need to know what I hope to acheive from each thing I ask ds to do (this is not the case with things ds chooses to do). I have been doing grammar and spelling in the context of his writing and it has worked well, but I am also open to using CM methods if they prove to be more efficient.
Is there someone who can help me understand the purpose behind copywork and dictation? Is there a link to some CM writings on this that would help me?
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Kathryn UK
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I just came across this quote in Charlotte Mason Reviewed by Jenny King:
A child who has produced two lines of good writing every day will not have an illegible hand in adulthood."
Wish someone had applied that during my dh's formative years. 
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Becky Parker
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Theresa,
I'm no expert and so I hesitate to even reply, but I believe copywork and dictation are the basis for all those things you listed - handwriting, spelling, grammar, and writing technique.
For me, copy work and dictation have been the "workbook practice" after a concept has been taught. So for instance, if I teach dd about nouns, I will be sure to point them out in her daily copywork or perhaps even have her circle them when she is done copying.
It is almost like the dictation could be used as the teaching / evaluation tool and copywork the practice tool. Dictation is great for finding spelling words that your child needs to work on or punctuation use etc. I do have to admit that now that my ds (12yo) is getting into more complicated grammar study and spelling I no longer rely on dictation / copywork as the main teaching tool. This is mostly because of my own lack of knowledge. I suppose I could use a grammar text as my spine and then just use his copywork and dictation passages to teach each concept, but I'm not that sure of myself in these areas.
I know I am going on and on and probably not saying a whole lot, I hope this helps in some little way...Perhaps a list would work better:
Spelling - point out trouble words in copywork. Have the child study these. Use dictation to test on whether or not your child has learned them.
Handwriting - I think this is the most obvious. Make sure the child does the copywork is his neatest handwriting. Use the copywork for instruction in letter formation.
Grammar - Discuss a concept. Point it out in the copywork and dictation passages. Have child mark it in some way. If the child likes diagramming, you could even have him diagram the passage if it isn't too long.
Writing technique - I believe I read that Benjamin Franklin learned to write by copying the work of other great writers, then seeing if he could re-write the passage as well as the model.
So actually, I suppose copywork and dictation could take the place of a lot of the text books we buy for our kids.
Okay, I'm done with this long winded reply. Hope others can offer you more advice on this.
Becky
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: July 04 2006 at 9:19am | IP Logged
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Becky, That was very helpful! Thanks!
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stacykay
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We still use a grammar text. I do look for passages that incorporate areas which include trouble areas for ds. Maybe it is overkill to have a grammar text and do dictation, but I need the help of the text  , and the dictation and copywork show the grammar in action, so to speak, with the dictation making ds think a little more about what is going on in the sentence.
I hope this is clear.
God Bless,
Stacy in MI
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marcie
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For your copywork, do you use handwriting sheets or just regular lined paper?
marcie~
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Becky Parker
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I use handwriting sheets while the child is learning to form the letters - usually through 2nd grade. I really don't like "newsprint" handwriting paper and my kids don't either. It tears way to easily. The best paper I have found for teaching young children the formation of letters is from Our Fathers House. It goes with a reading program called Sound Beginnings. I think you can buy the paper seperately though. I just started using Handwriting Without Tears for my ds in 6th last year who really struggled with his handwriting and no amount of copywork could help him. HWT has it's own paper for instruction. Otherwise, I would think once the child can form the letters properly it would be okay to just use looseleaf notebook paper.
FWIW
Becky
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stacykay
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Becky, How did your ds like HWT? Every year I look at it, and wonder about using it with my less than neat writers.
As far as paper used, we do the same; handwriting paper until their handwriting is going well.
There are times we do copywork, and I have them write it on paper that is lined on the bottom and blank on top. I make sure they cite the source of their copywork after they write it, and then they illustrate it. We do this for some Bible, science and history.
When we do narrations, I sometimes have them put them on this paper, also, with an illustration. Instead of putting them in a handwriting notebook, I have them put them in their Bible, history, or science notebooks.
I didn't give you an example, concrete, that is, for the dictation. Ds had problems with remembering where to put the (,), ("), and, when used, the ending punctuation, when quoting someone. So during that couple of weeks, we did a lot of dictation from LHOP (Laura seems to have a lot of speaking in her books, and their speech is simpler.) After he seemed to get it, we moved on, but then each week for about a month, I included sentences that had someone speaking, moving from LHOP, to other literature (oh, I did use the newspaper, for some articles on Africa and Asia, which we studied this year-actually still finishing Asia. )
After that month, I made sure we had speaking parts in dictation at least every other week, and that is what he will continue.
I am definitely no expert in this arena, but it did seem to really help ds.
God Bless,
Stacy in MI
dh Frank 21 yrs., and 6 dss Matt, Mike, Pete (the 11yo ds,) Mark, Paul, and John
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Becky Parker
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Stacy,
My ds really liked HWT - so much so that I am starting my younger son (5) on their Kindergarten book next year. I only wish I had started my oldest on it sooner. He did it for the first time last year while in 6th grade and the improvement in his handwriting was wonderful. The best part was that he finally didn't mind doing it. Previous to HWT, copywork, or any kind of handwriting practice brought tears. Just a side note, I got the last book in the series for my oldest ds. I didn't want him to think it was "babyish" and it wasn't at all.
Becky
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Zeliemum
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| Posted: July 11 2006 at 12:51am | IP Logged
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This is my first post on this forum, so I hope I make sense and don't sound like a wacko. 
This whole discussion on copy work and dictation has been very interesting. With my children(dd 11yrs, ds 9 3/4yrs, dd 8yrs, ds 7yrs) over our school day they would certainly do copy work from a science text, religion text or some supplement material. I think this would cover the application for writing practice, also I hope memorization on the subject with which they are working on. I then get them to re-read this the next time we do that subject. I have never considered dictation other than for spelling lists and tests. The idea of dictating sentences for grammer and spelling practice is a new one. I suppose I don't use the CM approach at all which I am assuming that is where this is coming from.
This is certainly a new approach. Although with phonics rules and grammer I would dictate, but not with this intention behind it. So maybe I'm doing a bit of CM thing without even knowing it.
I haven't really added anything, just thinking out loud.
I think my approach to schooling is very structured which I work well with and the children have gotten used to, but the idea of using something a little new is pretty interesting. Thanks for the ideas.
Hope you don't mind me adding my little bit.
God Bless from Australia.
Chemai.
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aussieannie
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Chem39 wrote:
| This is my first post on this forum, so I hope I make sense and don't sound like a wacko. |
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Well actually, now I come to think of it........ so GOOD to see you here!
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Leonie
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Chem39 wrote:
This is my first post on this forum, so I hope I make sense and don't sound like a wacko.
God Bless from Australia.
Chemai. |
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Welcome!
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Erin
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Chem39 wrote:
This is my first post on this forum, so I hope I make sense and don't sound like a wacko.
God Bless from Australia.
Chemai. |
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Hey Chemai,
Great to see you've made your way here
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4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: copywork and dictation
