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JennGM
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This is really hard to type, but I'm in desperate straits right now.
Short description, I need more handholding for my 2nd grader in the Language Arts and handwriting. I'm not finding the time to prepare specialized pages for him to work on, and I need two mornings that I can give him work to do that I can hold him accountable.
Some of the problem is me with inconsistency, the other part of the problem is this is my very negative and resistant child. I'm feeling so defeated and just worn out before I even sit down with him. And I'm looking at the big picture and just questioning if homeschooling is right for him and me. I'm regretting I didn't just put him in Montessori school when I first got my heart diagnosis. He is getting lost and behind in my personal struggles.
But to make it work now, I need some ways he can work on his own. And that might mean traditional phonics and spelling and handwriting workbooks.
I'm just looking for something that isn't too workbook-y and a little closer to our Mater Amabilis program on a whole.
Does that make sense?
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Jennifer G. Miller
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jawgee
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Oh, Jenn.  Hugs and Prayers.
We use English Lessons through Literature here. I am using Level 1 together with my 1st and 2nd grader, and Level 3 for my 4th grader. I bought the PDF workbook that goes along with it, so this is what it looks like in our home:
-child listens to audio version of the literature selection for ELTL (I've found all of them at Librivox). These are classic literature selections - Peter Pan, Dr. Dolittle, Wonderful Wizard of Oz, Beatrix Potter, etc.
-3 times/week, child sits down with me for a 5-10 minute lesson
-after the lesson with me, they get their copy of the workbook and do the necessary copywork, assignment.
What I love is that using ELTL in whole incorporates copywork, literature, Aesop's Fables, poetry, picture study, narration, basic grammar, some memorization, and Bible verses. I spend perhaps one hour per week (between my three kids) doing the lessons and they do the rest on their own. My 9YO DS, who used this program last year, too, loves listening to the audio books on his own and looks forward to each new selection.
For phonics, my 1st and 2nd graders are simply doing Explode the Code workbooks. They like workbooks and the program seems to be working for them. So, although it's not my first choice, I'm going to stick with what's working.
Hope that helps some.
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Monica
C (12/2001), N (11/2005), M (5/2008), J (8/2009) and three angels
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Erica Sanchez
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We've relied on workbooks for some of our work for awhile now. There are many reasons, but they sure came in handy during our few years of what felt like crisis with Rose. What we are using right now that feels very doable while not feeling like everything is a workbook:
- Explode the Code
- Seton Handwriting books - I picked them up at our local conference for my boys in 4th, 2nd, and K. They will work through them slowly.
Is he reading? My second grader is very bright, almost philosophical, and while math comes easily to him (Math-U-See), reading does not! I've been reading Bob books to him and he reads them back. Slow and steady progress and he is much happier.
I always want to be more CMish and I think we are heading in a good direction in some areas, but for now this is what is working.
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Erica in San Diego
(dh)Cash, Emily, Grace, Nicholas, Isabella, Annie, Luke, Max, Peter, 2 little souls ++, and sweet Rose who is legally ours!
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Erica Sanchez
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Wow, Monica, that sounds awesome and exactly the amount of time and work I can handle. We are using several programs with audio or dvd components (Little History of the World and Prima Latina) and I can't believe how much it takes off my plate. I think I am getting old! The program sounds very CM including things I am just not getting to lately. Thank you for the recommendation.
God bless you, Jenn! 
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Erica in San Diego
(dh)Cash, Emily, Grace, Nicholas, Isabella, Annie, Luke, Max, Peter, 2 little souls ++, and sweet Rose who is legally ours!
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MarilynW
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Jenn - years ago when I had lots of littles and I was expecting, I used the Avilian notebook method. I went back to it for my younger two this year and it is working out fabulously.
They each have a planner and a binder with subject folders I use a mix of workbook pages, Cm type work and group work. Everything is in the binder. eg group work is outlined on an index card. They use New American Cursive - and the pages each day are written on a card. As each piece of work is done they transfer to the left side of the subject folder.
For reading I have as schedule per day for each subject's reading (number of pages etc) and they just check it off in their folder when done. I do narrations when I have my time with each child.
I change out the binders once a week.
Re workbooks - these can work very well in some circumstances. We are using some Seton materials and they have exceeded my expectations. Also Well Trained Mind LA.
Key is consistency - my goal is the tortoise in the fable - just plodding along consistently will get us there.
Also as I get older I worry less about being a purist of any method. I would prefer to go to Mass and pray rather then spend too many hours agonizing about what curriculum.And with the world and the Church the way they are - my goal is to raise educated children who are well ordered and self-motivated and disciplined - and get them to Heaven,and so though the curriculum may not be perfect, good is ok.
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JennGM
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Thank you, all, for your suggestions and experiences.
My son is reading, and reads very well.
I hate buying more items. I follow Sally Thomas and her suggestion to "shop my shelves" and workbooks aren't a part of them.
But I can see how we need to make some changes here.
I'll be back, I'm sure, with more questions.
I'm just fighting my regrets and trying to move forward on how to make the best of this situation.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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guitarnan
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Jenn, it is okay to have regrets, but it is also okay to realistically assess your family situation and play the hand you've been dealt, so to speak.
Although I consider myself a Charlotte Mason homeschooler, I used workbooks with both of my children, particularly for handwriting and language arts. I used CHC's penmanship workbooks because the copywork included Catholic prayers and Bible verses (this is how I learned to write in cursive in Catholic school, way back when) and I used their spelling and grammar workbooks for the same reason. Both of my children excel in writing and reading comprehension - not because of me, but because we read so many books aloud and because they got the fundamentals of grammar, spelling and handwriting...via workbooks...in addition to narration and independent reading. Exposure to language and beautiful writing can come in many forms, and there are workbooks out there that can help you.
If you need a free handwriting resource, Jan Brett's website has cursive alphabet tracers you can download and print. We used these when Dancing Daughter got tired of her CHC workbook but still needed help forming individual letters. (Interestingly, something really stuck during this process...two years after we stopped using cursive writing workbooks and printouts, she came to me and asked for another cursive workbook so she could "remember how to write in cursive." Surprise!)
Hugs and prayers, Jenn. It's not easy to cope with a child who seems to want to say no to everything. (I am a "negative first reaction" person myself - I'm sure I'm no fun in meetings!) You are doing your best and your best is more than good enough.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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CrunchyMom
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jawgee wrote:
Oh, Jenn. Hugs and Prayers.
We use English Lessons through Literature here. I am using Level 1 together with my 1st and 2nd grader, and Level 3 for my 4th grader. I bought the PDF workbook that goes along with it, so this is what it looks like in our home:
-child listens to audio version of the literature selection for ELTL (I've found all of them at Librivox). These are classic literature selections - Peter Pan, Dr. Dolittle, Wonderful Wizard of Oz, Beatrix Potter, etc.
-3 times/week, child sits down with me for a 5-10 minute lesson
-after the lesson with me, they get their copy of the workbook and do the necessary copywork, assignment.
What I love is that using ELTL in whole incorporates copywork, literature, Aesop's Fables, poetry, picture study, narration, basic grammar, some memorization, and Bible verses. I spend perhaps one hour per week (between my three kids) doing the lessons and they do the rest on their own. My 9YO DS, who used this program last year, too, loves listening to the audio books on his own and looks forward to each new selection.
For phonics, my 1st and 2nd graders are simply doing Explode the Code workbooks. They like workbooks and the program seems to be working for them. So, although it's not my first choice, I'm going to stick with what's working.
Hope that helps some. |
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ELL really is a lovely program. I like how gentle it is and the balance of CM methods but using the progym when it starts to introduce writing.
Explode the Code worked really well for my oldest, and I am thinking of using it with number 3 as well so he has some things he can do without me. I had my oldest continue to work through it until the end, even after he was reading fluently, and I do think it helped. He was certainly able to do it independently. That was very important when he was young, to find programs that didn't need me. He just did better if he could work on his own.
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Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
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MarilynW
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Jenn - don't beat yourself us. God works best when we are weak - and even when we are unable to do (or maybe ESPECIALLY when we are unable to do) - and when we have to rely on Him for every breath and action - he will bring glory. Your son is His - you just be peaceful and do your best. Although the homeschooling is tough right now - maybe this is God's plan as you parent your son to help him through negativity and resistance.
Again - as I get older and wiser(? or maybe just plain exhausted!!!) - I have learned to discern better and to see that my homeschooling has to change for different seasons in life. Although I no longer have hyperemesis, preterm labor or newborns - there are other challenges such as aging parents, illness, less energy, helping to navigate our kids through the teenage years.
On the subject of workbooks/pre-written curricula - there are many advantages of them. in different seasons. I am using them at the moment to make sure we are on track - eg we always have used "traditional" Math textbooks and we are consistent and my kids have never had a problem with Math. Now I use some LA workbooks - and I know my kids have covered the bases for days that I am unable to get to the group work. Our CM/classical work is the frosting on the cake - but I have confidence knowing the bases are covered. Many of the old CAtholic schools (like Nancy mentioned) were good and rigorous.
Giving your son more independence and some workbooks make help with his negativity - he will be in control of finishing and being free and he won't be waiting for you?
Be at peace - our homeschooling is only a part of our vocation as moms, My view is that you should use the curriculum/materials (and that might mean buying new ones!) that make you a better mom and wife and daughter of God. Sometimes we can make the curriculum search our idols. Some of the holiest women I know are those who have used the same boxed curriculum each year for each child - and their homes have been peaceful and calm and their focus has been on praying more, parenting better, corporal works of mercy in their parishes and out, and they would not "waste" any time researching and planning. Not saying we are wrong to research and plan and agonize (I do love doing this!!!) but it helps me get things in perspective.
Hugs to you. Enjoy your son. I know it is cliched - but you have such a short time with him - my preemie twin boys are now juniors and my heart stops a little when I think that I only have them home for a short time more.
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SallyT
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Yes to everything everyone has said. Any philosophy can and should flex to meet the real people who live it. And any tool that can help you to feel at peace with the "born persons" your children are, and get them and you over a hump, seems like a win.
I have heard such good things about ELTL -- if I had younger kids again, I think I'd splash out for that.
One thought I've had about workbooks, when we've used them, is that they can be a tool for helping a child to self-teach -- so they can still fit under that CM philosophical umbrella in that sense. And they can be lifesaving for a child who really needs some kind of end-run around the pattern of head-butting with a parent (aaaask me how I know that . . . ). And for a "discipline subject" -- which I think would include handwriting and basic grammar -- a workbook can count as a "teacher," guiding the student.
I don't think you need to worry *too* much about formal spelling yet -- if I were going to prioritize, I would prioritize handwriting and basic usage (though I think ELTL has spelling? If it's an all-in-one thing, go for it!). Otherwise, a prepared copybook like Memoria Press's, and/or a handwriting program like CHC that includes a good bit of copying, might be enough without being too much. Maybe add one or two small things that could conceivably "cover" several bases (as copywork can cover spelling, grammar, and basic composition, even though *technically* it's only supposed to teach handwriting), and just work at *consistently* doing that, without adding in a whole lot extra.
I do also have negative and resistant children -- some more than others. My 13-year-old is going to be world-famous as a negative resister before it's all over! I have found that it helps some to remind said child that his natural response to anything is to say no first, and that powering through that "no" to do what we need to do regardless is something we're working on. This does not produce instantaneous results, but it helps me not to lose my cool, and it does often seem to provide a useful frame for "I'm sorry that you don't feel like doing this right now, but it is a non-negotiable." Framing that with some insight into the child's character, in a fairly value-neutral way -- in the same way that I tell my dramatic 11yo daughter that moods are neither good nor bad; they just are; but what we work on is not taking our mood out on other people -- anyway, that insight helps *me* to continue to see the child in question in a positive light, and hopefully helps him to understand himself more, and to begin to talk himself through the "no." This did ultimately work with my adult daughter, who is my other major "no" person.
Hugs to you. I hate that feeling that things are spiraling out of control, and that someone is getting the shaft because I haven't been on top of it all. Life is just like that sometimes, even without major health problems, and it is stressful. I hope you can find something affordable and relatively simple that fills this need -- very soon. (and please -- I would totally NOT shop my shelves in this instance, if I really didn't have what our situation was crying out for! Frugality is a great thing, and I'm pretty frugal when it comes to our homeschooling . . . but some purchases are really worth it).
Sally
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Maryan
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I agree with everything Monica and Lindsay have said about English Lessons Through Literature. We are on year two of doing it. The workbook is a pdf, and gives space for coloring while you are reading to the child or the child can read to himself and color after reading OR you can skip coloring if the child doesn't like to color. Librivox has ALL of her book choices as well.
I add a grammar year every other year or so for my kids, but I now don't do it until they are 3rd grade or older, ELTL is perfect for a cursory knowledge of grammar until then!
My favorite just grammar program is First Language Lessons. Although Level two doesn't have a workbook, you have to use your own notebook and occasionally write the copywork necessary for your child (unless they have changed this in the last couple of years.) Level Three uses a workbook. And it is a BIG book,but truly it is not a lot of work. We used CHC book when my oldest was in third grade and I didn't feel like he learned grammar. We did FLL for 5th grade and it was great! Two years later we did Daily Grammar. It was so intense. So out of those three, FLL gets my vote.
We have used Explode the Code with success too. If your son likes independence, he will like these books.
Hope you find something that fits you and your son!
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Maryan
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Maryan
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By the way, I REALLY liked CHC's second grade workbook. But I think it is manuscript. It has a lot of FHC quotes.
ELTL he probably could just read himself. She has an EXCELLENT sample pdf at Lulu that you can download to see if it is worth your time and effort.
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Maryan
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SallyT
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Maryan, I also felt my children didn't learn much from CHC's grammar workbooks. They *liked* them and would do them, but the exercises really didn't transfer into any actual usage. This was pre-3rd-grade, as far as I remember, and I do think I agree, after that experience, that there's not much point in doing formal grammar before 3rd or 4th grade.
Ditto their spelling, which I used for part of one year.
But we did use the CHC handwriting books and really liked them in that K-3 zone. Those were truly worth the money, and it was so nice just to have open-and-go writing at a time when I still had a fairly wide age spread at home and was feeling menopausally exhausted all the time! (weirdly enough, I feel a lot better at 50 than I did at 45 . . . ).
Once we'd done those (I followed the progression from print to cursive), then we just did straight copywork. I was really really looking for prepared copywork this year, to make my life easier, and just ended up making my own copybooks -- which took some work on the front end but has made our life flow that much more smoothly (takes away one more source of daily "decision fatigue").
BUT I would happily have paid money for a Memoria Press copybook if I had found one that really suited our needs. Just the luxury of something someone can open and do the next thing in -- it's wonderful.
And again, CM really does stress "self-education" in her writing. I know she's talking about learning from living books, but I don't know that it's that much of a philosophical stretch to say that some tool, like a workbook, that helps a child to manage and own his learning in certain areas -- because he doesn't need an adult there to guide him through it -- is of a piece with that idea.
Jenn, I really hope you find something that takes the pressure off for you, and that you feel complete peace about your decision.
Sally
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JodieLyn
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And some children just LIKE workbooks.. I didn't really use them when my big kids were little until they were begging for pages to work (math in this case) and I found myself writing out problems for the to do.. and said to myself this is goofy.. reinventing something that is probably out there.. just had to find what fit what was working for us.
I have kids doing Easy Grammar now and I like it. I like how the progression goes in the books.. and I hated grammar in school.. so finding something that covers the basics and doesn't make my head hurt and makes it possible for me to explain what's going on 
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Erica Sanchez
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SallyT wrote:
And again, CM really does stress "self-education" in her writing. I know she's talking about learning from living books, but I don't know that it's that much of a philosophical stretch to say that some tool, like a workbook, that helps a child to manage and own his learning in certain areas -- because he doesn't need an adult there to guide him through it -- is of a piece with that idea.
Sally
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Thank you for this, Sally!
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Have a beautiful and fun day!
Erica in San Diego
(dh)Cash, Emily, Grace, Nicholas, Isabella, Annie, Luke, Max, Peter, 2 little souls ++, and sweet Rose who is legally ours!
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Erica Sanchez
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Jodie, we like Easy Grammar as well. I understand grammar better because of the method of finding the prepositions and crossing them out before tackling the rest of the sentence. Daily Grams, too, for the younger set. Perfect for short lessons.
ELTL - What age is best to begin Level 1? My three boys are 4th, 2nd, and K. The 4th and 2nd graders are late readers and my Kinder is eager, quick and bright. Do you think Level 1 would work for all three?
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jawgee
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English Lessons could work well for your three, Erica. Right now I am doing 4th, 2nd, and 1st using two different levels (4th in level 3, the others in level 1).
Level 1 is very basic so far (we are about 15 chapters into it). The book has touched on punctuation and capitalization so far. We've been reading all Beatrix Potter stories, but soon it will switch to some Just So Stories.
I think Level 1 would work well for 2nd and K, but it may be far too basic for 4th.
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amarytbc
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I was going to tell you how much our younger children enjoyed and learned from Explode the Code, but it sounds like your heart is really not into workbooks. I was reminded of "file folder games" that I created to use with my oldest. They were very popular 20 years ago and surfing the web, they still seem to be in demand.
Here are some that are free for second grade and third grade
While I have kept my kids home through high school, I'm wondering if you aren't being nudged to see if the Montessori school has an opening. Just a thought.
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Erica Sanchez
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Thank you, Monica!
How are you doing, Jenn? Have you decided on anything? Thinking about you!
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Erica in San Diego
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MKelly
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Jenn, my heart is with you! My K-man can be super resistant, and it can be so exhausting! My prayers are with you! I agree about ELTL. I used Level 2 last year, and I found that it provided the consistency I needed. I let K-man read on the Kindle, which was a treat for him, and some of the books we didn't read at all because he'd already read them, but it really didn't matter. What was lovely was having copywork already there when I didn't have the brain power or energy to pull something together myself, and I really think she does an excellent job of just touching on grammar lightly - it's all really very manageable. And I found that when I did want to do something different - FHC copywork for example, then I could easily swap out the suggested copywork for my own choice.
We did and are still doing a separate spelling program- Words Their Way, which has the kids sorting words by spelling patterns- I veer a bit off Mater Amabilis here. Maryan uses the workbook for this and likes it. Let me know if you want the link. K. is resistant to this (I have no idea why - maybe because it's not an independent), but I see good results, so we're sticking with it - just maybe switching to the workbook that Maryan uses as opposed to what I'm using (more of a teacher text).
We've also had good results and no resistance whatsoever to Handwriting Without Tears - letter formation here is a bit different than your traditional ball and stick, and I was initially annoyed about this, but as they tell you, eventually the student acquires their own style of writing and I'm already seeing this. It really is super, super easy to learn proper letter formation and good writing habits, and the transition to cursive this year has been a snap. But I hear good things about CHC, too.
Explode the Code worked well for us while still in the beginning reading stage, but halfway through when K-man took off reading, we kind of stopped - I didn't feel it was doing much for us and we didn't need anything extra!
Sorry to go on and on - just figured I'd give you as much info as possible so you don't have to read every possible review if you do decide to buy something.....or am I the only one that does this? 
It's frustrating to be in a particular season that isn't where you expected to be- I feel like I am perpetually in some season that doesn't allow me the "ideal homeschool"! But what these other wiser ladies here have said is so true - I need to heed this advice myself! Let me know if you need anything.
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4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: Going to Workbook type work?
