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pumpkinmom
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| Posted: Sept 03 2014 at 3:10pm | IP Logged
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I'm am going through the Essential books with both my boys and it's painful! We are only through 4 lesson and I put it off because I don't like the set up of the book. We are mostly using it to help with spelling. I can't keep their attention either. I wish there was a phonics or spelling program for older students that read like a (living)book and had a workbook within it. I could see these lessons going so much better if we were seating together going through it. I spend my time at the dry erase board lecturing them out of the book. I just hate this and it's not CM friendly.
 Perhaps I just needed to vent a little. Suggestions would be nice though. 
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Cassie
Homeschooling my little patch of Ds-14 and Ds-10
Tending the Pumpkin Patch
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: Sept 04 2014 at 7:37am | IP Logged
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I am using the Logic of English Foundations series for my kindergartener, and it is going well. If the Essentials book looked as fun, I probably would have gotten it for my 8 year old who is not reading.
We are using Sound Beginnings because a dear friend gave it to us, and the Essentials program is not cheap! I am using the LOE materials that go along with their cursive program (I'm also using the cursive version of the Foundations program) to implement Sound Beginnings since many believe cursive is easier for those with dyslexia since it eliminates letter reversals (at least in their own writing). I considered All About Reading, but it is even pricier with lots more "stuff" to organize. I admit the reading aloud of the lesson feels dry to me, but I can really see how my children are responding to it all, and since I am not trained and admittedly struggle (mightily) with patience in teaching reading, I am thankful for being given words to say. I really think if I can stick with it, it will bear fruit.
My son has not been diagnosed with dyslexia and is going through testing for vision therapy, but I figure that programs that use methods that work for dyslexics (multi-sensory, phonogram based) can't hurt. My almost 6 year old was really begging for a reading program, but he is a very "tortoise" type learner. Bright, but slow and steady wins the race for him, at least at this age. We've used some other programs, and they just moved far too fast for him to retain what they taught, and this seems just his speed. Again, though, it is the Foundations program. ETA: The Foundations program is much more "fun" with lots of color and pictures.
I don't think you will find a complete phonics/spelling program that is "CM" because she did not use such programs!
However, a phonics/spelling program that I thought looked appealing was the phonetic zoo. by IEW. If I find my auditory learner needs more reinforcement of the phonograms after we complete Sound Beginnings, I think it might be a good fit for us.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: Sept 04 2014 at 7:41am | IP Logged
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Could you get a small white board for your lap so you could at least teach without feeling you are standing and lecturing? Perhaps just making the lesson *feel* more cozy in how you approach it would help? Most of the Foundations lessons take place on the small white board, so I am just sitting next to my son while we work together.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Mrs. A
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| Posted: Sept 04 2014 at 9:55pm | IP Logged
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We use SWR, but we do the lessons without any whiteboard at all. (I'm such a rule breaker  ) But it did take us awhile to really get into a comfortable rhythm for doing it. Now we are able to talk about words and rules and exceptions to rules in a very conversational way, even though I'm still dictating a list every day. Now that we have that rhythm the lessons are short because we can accomplish what we need to in less time. Hang in there a bit longer. You may find that it's not so bad as it seems. 
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Angel
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| Posted: Sept 10 2014 at 9:02am | IP Logged
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I don't have a lot of time to post right now, but I have found that LoE works best when it's one-on-one. I tried doing it together with 3 of my boys at once and it turned into that class you had where the teacher couldn't keep control because of all the class cut-ups in the back. When you have a class of 3, and they're all cut-ups, it's bad.
We're using the spelling rule cards at morning time to go through the rules with everybody, but my biggest problem now is trying to manage a time when I can work with everyone individually. That's the biggest drawback (for me) to LoE.
I was searching around for something my 11 yo dyslexic child could do on his own a little and we sat and listened to the sample of Phonetic Zoo... and ugh. We listened to Level A and the rule was so complicated, I had a hard time following it. You could just see my ds wilt as the sample went on.
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Angela
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Three Plus Two
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: Sept 10 2014 at 9:27am | IP Logged
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Good to know your insight about phonetic zoo. I had not listened to a sample.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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pumpkinmom
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| Posted: Sept 10 2014 at 3:10pm | IP Logged
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Angel wrote:
I don't have a lot of time to post right now, but I have found that LoE works best when it's one-on-one. I tried doing it together with 3 of my boys at once and it turned into that class you had where the teacher couldn't keep control because of all the class cut-ups in the back. When you have a class of 3, and they're all cut-ups, it's bad.
We're using the spelling rule cards at morning time to go through the rules with everybody, but my biggest problem now is trying to manage a time when I can work with everyone individually. That's the biggest drawback (for me) to LoE.
I was searching around for something my 11 yo dyslexic child could do on his own a little and we sat and listened to the sample of Phonetic Zoo... and ugh. We listened to Level A and the rule was so complicated, I had a hard time following it. You could just see my ds wilt as the sample went on. |
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Same problem here with just two! I did one day apart and it just felt silly but they stayed focused. We haven't done a lesson since then. I'm still debating what to do. It was expensive! I'm sure I could resale it thought so it wouldn't be a total waste.
I'm wondering if I could just use Uncovering the Logic of English (since I have that along with the Essential book) and use dictation and teach the rules from the book with dictation sentences. I know this would be fine but it's a lot of work that I don't know if I have time for it.
I know CM didn't teach phonics intensively but I'm surprised someone hasn't written a phonic book that would feel like a Charlotte Mason approach (if CM had taught phonics in a CM way  ).
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Cassie
Homeschooling my little patch of Ds-14 and Ds-10
Tending the Pumpkin Patch
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Mrs. A
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| Posted: Sept 10 2014 at 4:03pm | IP Logged
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You might find this interesting. It talks about CM and SWR, but since LoE is a spin-off of SWR I imagine they would be similar enough for it to still apply.
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~ Lisa
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: Sept 10 2014 at 6:18pm | IP Logged
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I would imagine that the CM way of teaching phonics would probably look a lot like TWRTR where you keep a word notebook. It is an organic and effective way of learning phonics for most people.
Which I am guessing is what the article Lisa linked to says, too. 
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Becky Parker
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Can anyone compare TWRTR and LoE? I'm not familiar with SWR so I don't know if the article linked above would answer my questions. I'm using TWRTR, which I find tedious, but I agree with Lindsay that it is effective for most. A friend uses LoE and I wonder if that would be better than TWRTR, especially for my two sons (5th and 8th graders) that struggle terribly with spelling.
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Becky
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Mrs. A
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Becky Parker wrote:
| Can anyone compare TWRTR and LoE? I'm not familiar with SWR so I don't know if the article linked above would answer my questions. I'm using TWRT which I find tedious, but I agree with Lindsay that it is effective for most. A friend uses LoE and I wonder if that would be better than TWRTR, especially for my two sons (5th and 8th graders) that struggle terribly with spelling. |
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SWR and LoE are both descendants, of a sort, of WRTR. LoE and SWR are both simply more scripted, and do more hand holding perhaps, than WRTR. Once you know how to use one program and dictate the words you could effectively use any one of them with relative ease. As far as I know LoE is the most pricey of them, so I personally wouldn't buy it if I knew how to use WRTR, but from what I understand there are more bells and whistles that come along with it and some people do prefer that because it makes it less monotonous. Any of the programs are excellent though, so if you decided to switch you would still be getting an excellent spelling curriculum.
(And the link above does apply to LoE and WRTR just as much as SWR )
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~ Lisa
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CrunchyMom
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I do not have Essentials, I have Foundations, which is for preschool and kindergarten, but the biggest difference I see so far between Sound Beginnings (TWRTW) that I am doing with my 8 year old and the Foundations program I am doing with my 6 year old, besides how quickly it moves, is the emphasis on practice hearing and blending sounds. As I think I said, I have been having my dyslexic 8 year old participate in that part of the Foundations program with his brother. It is interesting that, while my 8 year old more readily knows the phonograms, sounds, and is able to master handwriting more easily as is age appropriate, my 6 year old is better at hearing the sounds, though I think the exercises for him will bear fruit when it is time for him to blend while reading. The LOE materials are also more multi-sensory with practice air-writing, tactile cards for handwriting, and white board exercises. I do think that LOE probably addresses the auditory processing and multi-sensory needs of a dyslexic better, but I fear the Essentials program moves too quickly and Foundations too slow for the older child. However, for a non-dyslexic, it is probably just right! I wish I had used the Foundations program for my dyslexic right away, but I don't think it was actually a complete program then, so I couldn't have anyway.
I think, too, that the LOE Essentials program incorporates parts of speech and grammar into the lessons whereas TWRTR is more specifically geared toward reading and spelling. You can look at the samples on the LOE website.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Mrs. A
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Just coming back to say forgive me if I made it sound like "bells and whistles" that I mentioned above are silly or unnecessary. I forget sometimes that they can be extremely beneficial to some students, even though my own do not currently need those extra types of input. I still have 2 coming up who are not yet school aged, so it could very well turn out that we end up needing more than what we currently do and I'm thankful that such programs exist. :)
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CrunchyMom
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Lisa, I cross-posted with you, so nothing I said was meant to be in response to your post!
I used and loved Explode the Code with my oldest. It was the perfect program for him and for that time in our life. He is fiercely independent, and I needed something he could do without me when all I had was littles. I loved it because there were no bells and whistles and no pieces to get lost or damaged or otherwise bothered by toddlers. Frankly, this is why I went with LOE instead of All About Reading or All About Spelling, though I keep fearing that I am letting my pet peeves wrongly affect my choices when AAS might be a better program for him
When they are small, I am so relaxed thinking I have plenty of time, no rush, but with my 8 year old not reading, I feel a lot more pressure to know I am using the "right program" and not wasting any more time!
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Mrs. A
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CrunchyMom wrote:
Lisa, I cross-posted with you, so nothing I said was meant to be in response to your post!
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Thanks for this. :) I saw your post appear right after mine, so I kind of figured you weren't really responding to me, but when I went back and read what I'd written I still felt like it might come across as condescending, so I wanted to clarify.
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~ Lisa
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4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: Any Logic of English users?
