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SarahCD
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| Posted: May 31 2012 at 7:35am | IP Logged
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Hello!
As I am gearing up for summer reading, I am trying to select some quality books for my children! I have readers all over the map (as I just posted about my 6yo "late" reader in the Nurturing the Years of Wonder forum).
My oldest (9yo dd) is an accelerated reader but she really struggles with comprehension. There is quite a discrepancy between her reading ability and her comprehension.
She flies through books! And her spelling is strong. But she misses the message, theme and details in a book. She gets frustrated when I ask her to slow down or when I ask questions about the stories from her Reader and she doesn't know the answers.
So, I am wondering how I should approach this! I don't want to give her books that are too easy, but I also don't want her to read a bunch of books and not know what she read! Also, with five other children, I can't read everything she reads, because I can't keep up with her ~ LOL!
I think I need to balance reading with her and giving her books she can read on her own that will set her up for success.
Any tips? Any book recommendations? Anything would be helpful!!
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Sarah
wife to G
mom to  dd 9, dd 8, dd 6, ds 4, dd 4 and ds 1
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SallyT
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| Posted: May 31 2012 at 9:19am | IP Logged
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My $.02: I'm not sure that 9yos get things like message and theme. To borrow the language of the Trivium, that's still the grammar stage, when what the mind absorbs are concrete details, literal things . . . "message" and "theme" are abstractions, and children don't begin to pick up on those bigger-picture things until middle-school age. I don't remember ever being asked about the theme of a book before about the 8th grade.
So it may well be that your daughter understands just fine -- for her age level. If she knows who the important characters are and what happens to them, then she's understanding what she reads. She may not absorb every detail or -- more importantly -- every detail that either you or a "questions for comprehension" page might think of. But that doesn't mean she hasn't essentially gotten it.
I think I'd just leave it alone, personally. I've had readers who read above their level, and I'm sure that they didn't grasp every detail -- but they've always been readers who revisited loved books over and over, gleaning more each time.
Here, too, is where I like the CM practice of narration. When my 9yo narrates, he doesn't retell the story in every single detail, nor does he tell me what it's "about" in larger terms, but I can tell that he's gotten the gist of the story -- in other words, that he has comprehended what he's read or heard. In narration, the emphasis is on how much the child *does* know about the reading, which is often a surprising amount, though not necessarily what the teacher/mother would have thought to ask.
Again, it's okay to read an advanced-level book and not understand absolutely everything about it. If it's a good book, then the reader will want to return to it, and if it's a good book, it will yield dividends every time it's reread. The point isn't mastery, really, anyway, but pursuit . . .
Sally
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SarahCD
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| Posted: May 31 2012 at 9:43am | IP Logged
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Hi, Sally, yes, you are absolutely right about the "message" and "theme." I guess I really didn't mean that ... I meant plot. She misses a great deal, IMO. Enough so that there was quite a big discrepancy between her reading ability and her comprehension on the Peabody Test. I know that tests aren't everything, and I do take them with a grain of salt, but it was helpful and interesting to see what we might need to work on.
I haven't done much with narration, as this is our first year of homeschooling, and I am still trying to figure things out (i.e., learning styles, tips and tricks, etc.). So, I will give it a try going forward.
Also, you make a very good point about re-reading. She re-reads A LOT! 
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Sarah
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SallyT
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| Posted: May 31 2012 at 3:47pm | IP Logged
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Hm, yes, I see what you mean. I don't know what others would say about this, but it might be worth it to try to slow her down a little -- not give her "easier" books necessarily, but have her read and narrate in fairly small increments.
I wouldn't do this with everything she's reading, but maybe pick one book in particular to work on in this way: give her an independent reading time of maybe five minutes, then have her narrate what she's just read. Sometimes, for a fast reader, a lot does get lost in all the page turning (because you're so eager to know what happens), but stopping for a sort of "fact check" or a "where are we now?" might be a useful strategy. She's still reading the advanced book she likes to read, but is learning to slow down and digest it better before rushing on to whatever happens next. Does that make sense?
I know that when we read aloud, I almost always choose books well above my kids' level, and we do have to stop and remind ourselves who's who (all those dwarves in The Hobbit! All those Greeks in the Trojan War!) and what's going on. Usually the need to stop makes itself known via the kids' questions. We always soldier on, and I really don't regret doing things this way, but I can appreciate how kids lose the thread of what's going on, without a little support.
Sally
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Mackfam
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| Posted: May 31 2012 at 4:52pm | IP Logged
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Sarah,
My take is much the same as Sally's. My approach would be three-fold:
Slow down her required "for school-lessons" reading
A 9 yo in a CM school would be reading between 12 - 20 pages a day from about 3 - 4 books. That's not something you have to stick to rigidly, but it does give you an idea that for lessons, your dd could be reading between 4 - 5 pages for each book. I REQUIRE my children to read at a pace I set for their lessons (school reading). Independent reading is a different story. Let her read at her pace for her independent reading, but for those books you set in her lessons, set her pace.
In slower reading, a child takes in a modest amount of ideas. If she's reading from living, worthy books then those ideas are rich! If you were feeding this child you wouldn't let her belly up to cream and Turkish delights and chocolate mousse and steak and potatoes smothered in cream and the richest cheddar...etc. It would be too much and indigestion would be the likeliest outcome. You would help her moderate. Certainly, if you could, you would present the richest and most nourishing feast to your child (be it food or ideas) every day. Moderate the intake so that it doesn't cause indigestion and so that the child can learn to savor every delight. Slower reading promotes savoring. Savoring ideas means that a child takes them in, has time to consider them, wonder about them, live with them, explore them a little....before they go back to the feast again.
A practical tip that has served us well for many years is to include in every single book a small post-it note that simply says: READ 4 PAGES DAILY. This helps the child remember to be accountable...and remember what they are to be accountable to. I add post-it notes to the children's books at the beginning of each new term.
Independent reading should be rock-solid-iron-clad living book classics
....and here's why: she will read them quickly. Inhale them. And that's ok. I don't regulate the speed with which my children read independently, nor do I ask for narrations (though they do often volunteer them). Their purpose is simply to build imagination and grow understanding. If they are living books and not twaddle, they will beckon her again, and her enjoyment of that book will be completely different the second, third, and so-on time around. It won't take away from her first delights of the book, rather the book will unfold in layers. It will simply deepen. In this way, you can rest assured that you have truly set "her feet in a very large room" by introducing her and nurturing her "reading chops" on worthy books. The initial relationships she forms will deepen because a living book, a worthy book, can be returned to again and again. They are timeless and resist age time gradations. A little fluff is fine. All kids enjoy a little light reading and as long as the reading fits within your family's philosophy, I think a little is fine, but with my newer readers (ESPECIALLY) I am vigilant about nurturing that budding, growing imagination on the richest most nourishing banquet of ideas I can possibly find!
Drop all literary analysis and reading comprehension questions and NARRATE
Ah narration....how do I love thee? Let me count the ways.  There are so many reasons why narration packs an efficient and singular educational punch. We could go into writing readiness, organization of thought, and so many more. I could go on and on about how the ancients employed the simple and effective narration to cement learning in the ancient Padiea, but for now let's just keep it close to home, and I'll mention a few reasons narration would work particularly well in your situation.
** It takes the pressure off - both you and her. Your job: Tell her how much to read. Her job: Read and pay close attention to that which she reads. Let her enjoy her reading, and then when she's done, ask her to tell you what she just read. And by the way, because a narration is so challenging, keeping readings short (4-5 pages) makes narrating do-able. Narrating a gigantic section of reading all at once (multiple chapters) is not something I ask of a student until high school. *NOTE* If she's a beginning narrator, do be patient! Narrations are not easy to do and take some time to get a good habit of attention in place to be able to give a good narration. Some children are naturals, with excellent memory recall, some must work hard to build the habit. If beginning narrations are excessively short, let them be so. If you feel you must ask a couple of questions, limit yourself in number - perhaps 2, and let them be simple and seeking of what the child could know (do you remember why Charlotte was so upset?), not abstract critical analysis (why do you think this upset Charlotte and how does it relate to her Aunt's treatment of her?). ** It asks the child what they KNOW and not what they DON'T KNOW. Reading comp questions can be great, and I like to spring discussions from them with a child that is older and can bring a more analytical mind to the table (upper middle - high schoolers), but I eschew them ALTOGETHER with elementary students. Narration simply asks for a telling back. Each child will take something different from a story because each child is unique and stories impact each of us differently. When a child narrates, there won't be a right or a wrong, there will simply be the child telling back what they remember, what impacted them.
** Narrations, like all of Charlotte Mason's methods, meet the child right where he/she is and gently stretches. This is because one of CM's central tenets is that the child is a person. She had such unique respect for the child as an image of God, and such natural intuition when it came to children, that coupled together this wrought methods that were/are utterly effective while remaining gentle and completely rigorous while not overwhelming. It is, perhaps, one of the reasons I come back to CM again and again. Her methods work. They work in the practical and yield such delight.
==========================================
When narrations are pretty firmly in place, I begin to use a favorite tool: Penny Gardner's Narration Cube. Roll it and introduce what the plot/character/setting actually is. One at a time - model it. Then let your child narrate based on that theme. It's been a wonderful and very easy and gentle way to introduce these literary terms and to have the child show through narrations, what he understands of that term. And it can be tailored in a variety of ways - add protagonist, antagonist, conflict, rising action, falling action - for an older student. Change it up however you like. It's very easy to make the cube - but do use card stock for durability.
I hope something here is a help, Sarah!
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: May 31 2012 at 5:03pm | IP Logged
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You could also be dealing with a difference of less strong modes of learning.. like an auditory or kinetic learner vs a visual learner. So she may be reading but not understanding at the level she might with a different mode.
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SarahCD
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| Posted: June 05 2012 at 4:04pm | IP Logged
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I just wanted to share that in the last couple of days, I have encouraged my dd to slow down. I even demonstrated what I mean by slow. Then, I told her that when she was finished reading (only 2-3 pages in her Catholic National Reader), she would tell me the story in her own words. She has done a great job!! And if there were a few things that I thought she should include, I just gave her some prompting questions.
Thank you so much for your advice! It helped tremendously!
Blessings!
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Sarah
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mom to dd 9, dd 8, dd 6, ds 4, dd 4 and ds 1
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SarahCD
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P.S. Now to work on encouraging reading those rock-solid living books over the summer! It might be a bit of a challenge, winning her (and all my dc) over, but I am up for it! 
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Sarah
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Mackfam
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| Posted: June 05 2012 at 4:24pm | IP Logged
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SarahCD wrote:
I just wanted to share that in the last couple of days, I have encouraged my dd to slow down. I even demonstrated what I mean by slow. Then, I told her that when she was finished reading (only 2-3 pages in her Catholic National Reader), she would tell me the story in her own words. She has done a great job!! And if there were a few things that I thought she should include, I just gave her some prompting questions.
Thank you so much for your advice! It helped tremendously!
Blessings! |
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Fantastic, Sarah!!! 
SarahCD wrote:
| P.S. Now to work on encouraging reading those rock-solid living books over the summer! It might be a bit of a challenge, winning her (and all my dc) over, but I am up for it! |
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Oh my - there are just so many unbelievably rich and exciting books to choose from! I know you can do this, Sarah! Be sure to check out some of the fantastic suggestions in Living Literature.
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Jen Mackintosh
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4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: Reading Comprehension Struggle
