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misswallo
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| Posted: April 23 2012 at 1:15pm | IP Logged
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Does anyone have any advice/resources to help with my 10yr. old dd who HATES to write. Reading/writing has always been harder for her. She is now a great reader, but gets completely stressed out when asked to write a history narration. In the past she has dictated to me,but I think by now she should be able to write a little on her own. I only ask for one narration a week, but on other days she needs to journal about anything she wants. I think she has trouble organizing her thoughts and then getting them onto paper. I don't know what to expect from her..am I being too easy or too hard for someone who has trouble with writing? Are there any good books I can read about this or have any of you dealt with this and what was your solution?
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Missy-married in 1997 dd(99) dd(01) dd(04) dd(06) ds(09) and ds(12)
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jawgee
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| Posted: April 23 2012 at 1:35pm | IP Logged
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I have a 10YO boy. I don't expect a lot of writing for him right now. He does one or two oral narrations every day, and then he dictates a longer narration (covering our week of history) on Fridays. He is getting to the stage where he is almost ready to take over typing them himself. (Writing - no way - he doesn't like to write with pencil and paper).
He has had to write three papers this year for some of his extracurricular activities. What seems to work best for him is to take notes (he copies and pastes information he finds online into a text file). Then he reads through the notes he took, and "narrates" his report as I type. We move through it slowly. I'll say, for example, "Today I want you to tell me about the habitat of the Poison Dart Frog" and he'll narrate 3-4 sentences. We'll stop and then go back to it another day and I'll say "tell me about the life cycle of the Poison Dart Frog". We continue this way until we get through all of the major points.
In terms of other writing, it's very minimal. He does copywork. Occasionally he needs to add some information to his Geography notebook or make some notes in his Grammar notebook. I don't ask him to do any other written narrations or journaling right now. I just don't think he's quite there yet.
In the beginning I really questioned CM's ideas for Language Arts. I have a degree in English and I thought that such a gentle introduction would leave the students far behind. What I am coming to see is that my son is not behind at all. In the same way I can't expect a 3YO to read or a 6MO to walk, I can't expect a 10YO to be able to write well-organized papers or clearly design a outline for a paper. Oral narration is a tool that is helping him with comprehension, memory, and organizing his thoughts. He's made a lot of progress in those three areas in just the eight months we've been homeschooling.
Jenn (Mackfam) has a great blog post on CM Language Arts here. Hope that helps!
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Monica
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SallyT
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| Posted: April 23 2012 at 2:07pm | IP Logged
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I second what Monica says. I've found, so far, that the switch seems to flip around 12/7th grade, and that until then, focusing on copywork, with maybe some sentence-writing (because you can't write good paragraphs until you can write good sentences, since that's what paragraphs are made of), is sufficient. I'm not a CM purist by any means, but I do believe very strongly in the value of copywork, for the way that it enables the child to internalize good written English and to *use* good written English without the pressure of having to come up with something "good enough."
That is the pitfall for the bright, advanced-reading child, maybe even more so for a reader who's struggled for mastery: you read this great prose, so you have in your mind what great prose is, but you lack the maturity to produce anything like it yourself, and that can be paralyzing. Two or three more years make all the difference, and in the meantime, copywork keeps the child writing.
My now-14-year-old is an excellent writer -- he's actually taking a writing-intensive college class (WWII history, with 7 papers, yikes -- and in case you're wondering, my husband is a professor at a small and friendly college, and his friends have been wonderfully willing to let our teenagers into their classes long before the kids were dual-enrollment age). But until he was 12, I really worried about him. Getting him to write more than 2 or 3 sentences was like trying to wring water out of sandpaper. I kid you not.
In 7th grade (ie last year, when he was 12-13), I finally felt that he was ready to take on more writing, and I had him use my adaptation of a year-long research project in the old CHC middle-school lesson plans, where he researched a different world-history topic every week and wrote a "history book chapter" on Friday. His "chapters" were all less than a page long, though I did notice that he *really* knew how to put sentences together. He wasn't writing much, in terms of pages, but what he did write was pretty good in terms of style and vocabulary.
And now he's writing a 12-page-minimum research paper for this class. For the first paper, I spent about ten minutes, once he'd written a draft, teaching him how to write a thesis sentence and organize it, and he was off to the races. All of this is so much easier when the child is ready to take it on; really, to work on organization, for example, you do have to have a writer who can produce a draft of some length, so that you can work on organizing it. It's usually not productive to work on organizational issues in the abstract, without an actual piece of unfinished student writing to demonstrate on.
All that to say: readiness is everything. If I had pushed my son to write at 10, his perception of himself would have been that he couldn't write and hated writing. I credit reading, copywork, and family conversation with his current ability -- now that he's matured and ready -- to render his fairly articulate thoughts into fairly articulate written language.
I have a child who'll be 10 this summer, and while he does write some on his own (3-sentence journal entries are standard), I don't plan to ask him for written narration yet. He narrates orally pretty well, and I'm going to continue with that while giving him time to develop a stronger connection between the thinking brain and the writing hand, if that makes any sense.
Sally
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Mackfam
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| Posted: April 23 2012 at 3:04pm | IP Logged
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I'm in agreement with pretty much everything shared so far. There is a significant developmental readiness in writing that I wouldn't want to push. I start written narrations around 10 yo, but there has been a significant difference between my oldest two in terms of how their written narrations looked initially, and on what timeline they developed from there. It's a natural and unique progression, much like reading. And I agree with Sally - much like reading, early pushing or insistence could cultivate some hard to repair habits and attitudes.
Ideas:
** Continue with written narrations, only one a week or even one every two weeks, and let them be short. They won't be anywhere NEAR the length of a good oral narration...and may not be for a long time. At some point, the process begins to click and the child's writing really begins to develop. It's at this point that you can begin formal polishing of writing skills.
** Don't correct grammar or spelling at first. Just let them be what they are. After the initial ground is broken, begin addressing one grammatical idea to improve on at a time. Don't point out spelling issues during written narrations, just make a note of mis-spelled words and be sure to include them in that week's dictation lesson.
** Use one book with short passages for written narrations. Richard Haliburton's The Book of Marvels is an excellent choice because the selections are exciting, engaging and fairly short, with each chapter being around 3 -5 pages long.
** Just as you did in the early years when your dd was learning to orally narrate, don't ask her to turn in a written narration covering a 10 page chapter of a meaty book. It's hard to organize all that information and get anything down on paper, and in the end, it just feels overwhelming. Ask for written narrations from short selections. OR...ask her to choose the reading from which she'd like to narrate.
** If your dd doesn't know how to type yet, I encourage learning. Some children enjoy typing out their narrations over hand writing them, and I like to put whichever writing tool they prefer into their hands - keyboard or pencil.
** This is the point at which I spend a little time typing a child's written narration as they orally narrate to me. It's a good way for them to see that their words can be written or spoken thoughts. Both my children really enjoyed the process of narrating while I typed, and then reading their written narration aloud. It gives them a positive feeling about their ability to write, and it's been a good way to transition from oral to written narrations.
....from there we transition to this....
** Ask your dd to write the first one or two sentences, and then you take over typing while she orally narrates.
** You do NOT have to write to be a writer --> you have to read to be a writer. Continue filling her schedule with wonderful, worthy books to build vocabulary and illustrate excellent writing in varied forms.
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I have an 11 yo son, and his written narrations are still developing. He gives 3 - 4 sentences of work for a written narration weekly. Sentence structure and content have improved since he began writing written narrations last year. His preferred format is the keyboard, so he emails his written narration to me, and I keep a special folder in my inbox for holding written narrations.
I also have a 15 yo daughter. Her written narrations have dramatically improved since she began writing. Like Sally's experience, my dd's written narrations began to really develop quite naturally in terms of content, length, and overall good writing around the 7th/8th grade. She is now in 10th grade, writes very enjoyable and complex sentences, and her written narrations are generally half pages or more, typed. She writes a written narration daily at this point, and prefers the keyboard so she emails the written narrations to me. I also keep a separate file folder in my inbox for saving her written narrations.
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misswallo
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| Posted: April 23 2012 at 4:04pm | IP Logged
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Thanks ladies! I can't wait to re-read all of your responses after the kid are in bed. Hoping to respond more later, thank you for taking the time to give me such well-thought out advice.
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Missy-married in 1997 dd(99) dd(01) dd(04) dd(06) ds(09) and ds(12)
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misswallo
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| Posted: April 23 2012 at 9:22pm | IP Logged
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Ok, I like all of your ideas. Thinking about how this school year has gone,I believe that some of your suggestions I have been doing. For awhile I took a break from asking her to narrate or write anything because it caused her so much stress, but after Thanksgiving I was wanting more from her. That is when I required one narration a week consisting of 2-3 sentences but if the reading selection happened to be long that day she would be given the choice to write her narration or draw it. She was also required to keep a journal to write in everyday. She doesn't give me any trouble with that. I guess I started panicking since we are near the end of the school year and I just kept thinking she should be writing more. I will continue to be patient with her progress and incorporate more copy work, which is something we slacked on this year  Thanks again.
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Missy-married in 1997 dd(99) dd(01) dd(04) dd(06) ds(09) and ds(12)
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guitarnan
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| Posted: April 23 2012 at 9:53pm | IP Logged
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Quote:
| You do NOT have to write to be a writer --> you have to read to be a writer. Continue filling her schedule with wonderful, worthy books to build vocabulary and illustrate excellent writing in varied forms. |
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Exactly!!!
Missy, my dd was just like yours, and now she writes writes writes to the point that I have to drag her away from her "fun" back to other subjects. (She is 14.)
What did I do? Not much. I started her on formal vocabulary study (as opposed to phonics/word study) in 7th grade. We did some copywork here and there. We kept reading aloud, revisiting old friends (even picture books, especially those with poetry) and joined a homeschool book club. We studied some grammar and wrote a few things.
My dd despises writing in journals (it is a fad where I live - she had to do it for Confirmation class and several other activities), so that is one approach that did not work for us.
What happened, then? A couple of things. She discovered fan fiction (where fans of films, TV series, books, etc. write their own stories using the characters they admire) and started writing some of her own. Surprise! She liked it. She discovered science fiction, a genre I loved at her age (thankfully, as I've been able to steer her toward quality novels and short stories rather than trashy twaddle). She discovered that some of her friends also like to write and they began team-writing stories and critiquing each other's work.
Sometimes it's just the time factor. Something you have to do every week (no matter what it is) can be scary until you figure out a way - a formula, really - to cope with it. (I am a freelance writer and I still operate this way, every week!)
Fill her book basket with excellent literature, living books, fun poems and permission to enjoy all of the above. Read aloud - new books and old favorites. Talk about vocabulary words. It will come.
If you'd told me a year ago that my daughter would become an avid writer of fiction, I would have laughed until I fell out of my chair.
The Good Lord had other ideas...he gave her a love of big words, which, unplanned, I nurtured with vocabulary work, and a few friends who encouraged her to indulge her creative side. And here we are.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: Resistant Writer
