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violingirl
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| Posted: Feb 10 2012 at 9:13am | IP Logged
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What do you require of narration from a 6-year-old?
My 6yo son is a very technical kind of kid, very interested in anything that comes with directions to build yourself (legos, models, kits of any kind). He does best when I give him a list of exactly what we are going to do that day, down to the exact page numbers. He will happily work along as long as he knows what to expect and can see that each bit of work he does checks something off the list.
Another part of the equation is that he only works to your exact expectation and rarely chooses to exceed it. He is like that in every area of life, not just school-related things. Like, with legos he only ever follows the directions on how to build something. Never once has he tried to just build with pieces, even though when DH and DS2 do legos they only ever build their own things.
When it comes to narration, he gives me the bare minimum. Like, we read about George Washington the other day and all he would say was "George Washington was a president." The thing is, I *know* he remembers more than that. He memorizes quite easily and his recall is amazing when something is important enough to him to use it.
I tried a little experiment over the last 2 weeks or so where I told him one day that he had to be able to tell me 3 things about our reading and he did that very easily. A few days later I asked him to tell me 5 things from our reading and he could do that easily too. However on another day when I told him to just tell me as much as he could remember he again went with 1 little fact. He does slightly better with telling back a short story (we've basically narrated fable-length stories this year) but it is still the most basic telling of the story you could get. He just doesn't see the point of embelishing with details.
I know it's mostly because he thinks in that way all the time, but I'm wondering if requiring a "minimum" in his narration would be beneficial or not. Do I tell him each time that he must tell me at least three things? Maybe after he gives his sparse narration I should ask 2 or 3 questions to be sure of his comprehension? The only requirement I've made of narration so far is that we do it after 2 or 3 readings each week right now, with me reading aloud to him since he is still working on reading fluency. I don't require him to write any of his narrations, but I do ask him to sometimes illustrate them after I've written them out. Maybe once a week? Not even that often sometimes.
I don't want to push something that is inappropriate either for his age or his personality, but at the same time I want to help him grow in this area. Maybe it's something to leave alone for now and then work with more when he's a little older if he hasn't started to narrate longer by a certain point?
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Erin
DS (2005) DS (2007) DD (2012)
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: Feb 10 2012 at 9:33am | IP Logged
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violingirl wrote:
Maybe it's something to leave alone for now and then work with more when he's a little older if he hasn't started to narrate longer by a certain point?
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This is what I would do/have done. Six is still very young for many requirements, imo. Learning and reading should be enjoyable and no/low pressure. If he likes telling you about what he's read, that's great, but I would continue to just make it a game (like your "can you tell me 3 things about what we read yesterday") or having your husband get into the habit of asking about the things you've read.
Narration, in my understanding, is about the skill of not just retaining information but organizing it. Just because your son can remember what you've read doesn't mean he's ready developmentally to regurgitate it in an ordered way on his own, so I wouldn't use his ability to parrot or memorize as the sole measure of determining his readiness.
Also, the more he is exposed to stories/language/literature, the more tools he will be acquiring for putting things into his own words.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Feb 10 2012 at 10:06am | IP Logged
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A couple of questions first, Erin:
? What kind of books/reading are you asking him to narrate? Specific titles.
? How often are you having him narrate?
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Without knowing the answers to those questions I'll offer my first impressions.
I would not require a certain number of facts given in a narration. The main purpose of a narration is for a child to tell you what HE/SHE got from a reading...not what you expected them to get, not what a syllabus told you they should get. It is ENTIRELY possible for a child to give a very succinct narration like, "George Washington was a president," and have that be a good reflection of exactly what that child got out of that reading, ESPECIALLY if you just read from a non-fiction source that really did just in essence say that, "George Washington was a president."  My thoughts:1) Non-fiction books are VERY hard to narrate from, not impossible, just harder and I don't ask for narrations from non-fiction books unless the writing is unusually engaging....or until my narrator is very experienced with narrating.
2) This child may just be a very natural summarizer when it comes to narrating. This is just as good a skill as being a naturally detailed narrator because eventually, you need them to know how to do both.
3) Narrations naturally become longer, more involved, detailed once young readers are reading independently. When you ask for books to be read independently and then narrated, their eagerness to share what they just read (AS LONG AS IT IS AN ENGAGING LIVING BOOK) simply spills over into their narration. These narrations from independently read books are longer and more detailed, and they can be because you, the listener, can be engaged and excited in your listening, wondering what has happened next.
4) The best narrations come from the best books. Once he's reading well, give him E.B. White's The Trumpet of the Swan (or.....insert the title of any other exceedingly well written book here....). Now, ask him to read a little (not 3 chapters a day....just a reasonable amount). Then, ask him to tell you what happened to the swan today....be excited, engaged in the story, an open and eager listener. Don't treat the narration as something you are simply eager to check off, too. Make sure you aren't engaged elsewhere when you listen - I like to keep my hands engaged (stirring, folding, sewing), but my mind is completely attentive to their narration.
5) If a child is having some difficulty getting rolling with a narration, I like to invite their thoughts, but I don't ask abstract type questions. So, in the case of the George Washington book, (again, practicing being totally interested and engaged in what they just read and what they thought of it), I might invite him to share a few more things with me from the book. And then, let it be.
6) For my highly detailed narrators, I have to model how to summarize a narration. You *MAY* have a natural summarizer, so it may help him if you narrate one day, and give the details and ideas that stand out to you. This should be conversational - not academic. In other words, don't list a bullet point list of George Washington's accomplishments as you recall them - narrate ideas that stand out to you (and by the way, if this book gives ideas in a bullet point fashion, it isn't living....and that would be a big reason why he can't narrate it naturally.)
7) Just emphasizing my last point - is it truly a living book? Is it conveying ideas in ways that are engaging and exciting? Is the book written by an author that clearly has a passion for the subject.....OR.....is it clear the book was written to convey the national standards of education that an *expert* has decided every early elementary student SHOULD know?  ....and impossible to narrate.
8) Yes, narrations do develop more as they grow, and especially as they begin reading independently. Beginning narrations (and at age 6, I'd call these beginning narrations), can be a little shaky and it's ok to just relax and let your son grow into them a bit.
9) And finally....some narrators are just naturally succinct. I can say this because my brother was extremely succinct when it came to narrating. Cut to the chase and straight to the point. My brother never used three words when two would do. It used to drive my mom crazy because of course, my sister could narrate vividly and with great detail. But, mom trusted the method because she knew the purpose of narrating, and my brother could convey that in fact he did understand what he just read. Once he started writing his narrations and further, writing independently, it was CLEAR that he could communicate and had been paying attention to writing styles all those years. So....while I don't know that your son is truly a naturally succinct narrator, I do know that it's possible and the lesson I learned from my mom and my brother is to trust the purpose of narrations (it is simply the child telling back), and trust that the child will give you what they took from the reading. My final thought is really more how I would approach a troubled/difficult narration with an older child, but it does apply here. If an older, experienced narrator is having trouble narrating I ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS look to the book. 9 times out of 10, it's not a living book. The other 1 time out of 10 it can be the style of the author, the fact that it's non-fiction, distractions, other simple explanations I can work with.
Hope this gives you some ideas in working with his narrations, Erin. 
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Jen Mackintosh
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Feb 10 2012 at 10:07am | IP Logged
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CrunchyMom wrote:
Narration, in my understanding, is about the skill of not just retaining information but organizing it. Just because your son can remember what you've read doesn't mean he's ready developmentally to regurgitate it in an ordered way on his own, so I wouldn't use his ability to parrot or memorize as the sole measure of determining his readiness.
Also, the more he is exposed to stories/language/literature, the more tools he will be acquiring for putting things into his own words. |
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These are very good observations and thoughts!! 
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Jen Mackintosh
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violingirl
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| Posted: Feb 10 2012 at 2:08pm | IP Logged
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CrunchyMom wrote:
This is what I would do/have done. Six is still very young for many requirements, imo. Learning and reading should be enjoyable and no/low pressure.
Narration, in my understanding, is about the skill of not just retaining information but organizing it. Just because your son can remember what you've read doesn't mean he's ready developmentally to regurgitate it in an ordered way on his own, so I wouldn't use his ability to parrot or memorize as the sole measure of determining his readiness.
Also, the more he is exposed to stories/language/literature, the more tools he will be acquiring for putting things into his own words. |
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This is what I was kind of thinking. He's so young, but I was wondering if because of his quiet nature there was something we were missing. I certainly don't want him to feel like he's doing poorly (he's definitely not!) or that learning is a dull thing.
Mackfam wrote:
A couple of questions first, Erin:
? What kind of books/reading are you asking him to narrate? Specific titles.
? How often are you having him narrate? |
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The book from my example was President George Washington by David Adler. I read it aloud to him 1 chapter each day and I had him narrate on 1 of those days. It's a reader level book so it has very short chapters- about 4 pages each with lots of pictures- probably 4-6 lines of text per page.
We've been mostly narrating from literature- we worked our way through 1-2 fairy tales or folk tales each week in November and December and over the past month or so we've been reading Fables by Alfred Lobel one fable at a time. Some of the fairy tales were books by Trina Schart Hyman, Jan Brett and Paul Zelinsky. I'm planning Tall Tales for next month (probably the collection by Mary Pope Osborne).
I have him narrate about twice a week right now, and always right after we read. I don't think it's reasonable to ask him later in the day or on another day. We just started working on narrating in November- He is definitely a beginner! I guess that was part of why I'm questioning this- but he's bare bones about everything. He loves basketball and watches games with DH all the time but if you ask him what happened in a game all he ever says is "the final score was xx-xx" never a word about a great play or an exciting moment. A life event has to be truly tremendous for him to make a fuss about it. If he mentions something to us more than once we know it must be INCREDIBLY important.
Mackfam wrote:
| 1) Non-fiction books are VERY hard to narrate from, not impossible, just harder and I don't ask for narrations from non-fiction books unless the writing is unusually engaging....or until my narrator is very experienced with narrating. |
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I mostly have him narrate from literature we're reading, but I have just recently tried it with some of his history reading, like the George Washington example. I'll stick with literature now that I know. We really are just starting out on this path.
Mackfam wrote:
| 2) This child may just be a very natural summarizer when it comes to narrating. This is just as good a skill as being a naturally detailed narrator because eventually, you need them to know how to do both. |
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I think this describes him perfectly. Succinct is his middle name. As long as that's okay for him to do right now- I wasn't sure if I should be encouraging more from him.
Mackfam wrote:
| 3) Narrations naturally become longer, more involved, detailed once young readers are reading independently. When you ask for books to be read independently and then narrated, their eagerness to share what they just read (AS LONG AS IT IS AN ENGAGING LIVING BOOK) simply spills over into their narration. These narrations from independently read books are longer and more detailed, and they can be because you, the listener, can be engaged and excited in your listening, wondering what has happened next. |
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See, I'm glad to know this too. While he reads pretty well, he's not fluent yet so he mostly still reads out loud to me or DH. Knowing him I wonder if he's thinking "what's the point of narrating something we just read together???" It makes a lot of sense that he would have more to share if it was something he read on his own and we hadn't read with him.
Mackfam wrote:
| 6) For my highly detailed narrators, I have to model how to summarize a narration. You *MAY* have a natural summarizer, so it may help him if you narrate one day, and give the details and ideas that stand out to you. This should be conversational - not academic. In other words, don't list a bullet point list of George Washington's accomplishments as you recall them - narrate ideas that stand out to you (and by the way, if this book gives ideas in a bullet point fashion, it isn't living....and that would be a big reason why he can't narrate it naturally.) |
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What a great idea- this is what we do when we read about science topics- I'll usually remark on something I thought was interesting or a fact I had never learned before and he and I will have a really interesting conversation. I don't know why I haven't thought to do the same for other topics.  Possibly because science is the only subject he says more than two words about.
Mackfam wrote:
| 9) And finally....some narrators are just naturally succinct. I can say this because my brother was extremely succinct when it came to narrating. Cut to the chase and straight to the point. My brother never used three words when two would do. |
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That is so my son! If he can get away with a nod he will. Still waters run deep, right?
Thank you, Jen and CrunchyMom!
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Erin
DS (2005) DS (2007) DD (2012)
Mama In Progress
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Topic: narration requirements for a 6yo?
