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MamaFence
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| Posted: July 20 2011 at 9:12am | IP Logged
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In younger years, do you teach spelling, or is it something that comes through copywork? I'm a little confused on how that fits in with a CM education.
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Gina, mother to 4
DD 7yr (11.04)
DD 5yr (6.06)
DS 3yr (6.08)
DS 2yr (11.09)
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jawgee
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| Posted: July 20 2011 at 9:31am | IP Logged
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CM doesn't seem to emphasize spelling in the younger grades - not until grade three or four, and thinks that at that age children pick up how words look while they are reading. I'm not completely comfortable with that approach, so for my younger son, who is almost 6, I am going to gently introduce spelling with this free program I just downloaded.
For my older son, who is almost 10, I bought Spelling Wisdom from the SCM site. I really love that program!
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Monica
C (12/2001), N (11/2005), M (5/2008), J (8/2009) and three angels
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Mackfam
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| Posted: July 20 2011 at 9:47am | IP Logged
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Hi Gina. 
I'd need a little more definition on what you mean by "younger years". Spelling was not formally introduced in CM's schools until around what we consider 4th grade. I follow this approach. Before the 4th grade, I only address spelling issues informally. So, if your children are younger than 4th grade you really don't need a formal spelling program, no spelling workbooks, no vocabulary, no writing of spelling words. You DO need to watch that they are copying words exactly as written for their copywork. This lays a fantastic foundation for young writers.
Now, if your young child is writing independently and consistently chooses to mis-spell a particular word - how would you handle that? I would simply introduce a copywork selection that included that particular word in it (provided the word wasn't crazy difficult like *supercilious* or something  .) So let's say that the child writes LAND with an E for the vowel....I'd simply choose a simple copywork selection with the word LAND in it, and give them an opportunity to VISUALIZE the word LAND with an A in it.
>> "Look at this word....can you read it...let's sound it out...L-A-N-D. What makes the short vowel sound in our word? A. Now let's sound it out again....L-A-N-D. Can you see the word in your mind...let's write it really big on our chalkboard. Now take a picture of the word with your eyes...look at each letter for a minute...and now look at the whole word...L-A-N-D. CLOSE YOUR EYES. Can you see the word? Spell it out loud for me. Great. Now, you write your copywork and make sure you're taking your time and doing the best job you can and when you get to LAND, see it in your mind just like you did with me now....try to see the picture you just made of the word L-A-N-D. <<
I WOULD NOT do this often, only when needed. But, I also would NOT allow a child to get in the habit of writing a word with incorrect spelling and this is why I might choose to address a particular word in this way.
In case you might be interested, I wrote an entire series of articles on Charlotte Mason's approach to language arts which I use in my home. I think you'll find a lot of CM there, but I also try to give some practical *how-does-this-work-look-live-itself-out-in-my-home* examples.
Considering: Charlotte Mason and Our Approach to Language Arts. In that first post I linked to, you'll find a breakdown of what to cover and when to cover it for language arts within the context of CM's methods/philosophy. I also link from there all the remaining posts in the series, of which I think you might find the post on Dictation very helpful for answering your questions on introducing spelling through dictation lessons.
I hope that linking these articles is ok, and I do so only to provide some background reading. We can still address particular questions or practical applications and examples here if you have any, Gina!
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Jen Mackintosh
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Mackfam
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| Posted: July 20 2011 at 9:52am | IP Logged
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jawgee wrote:
| For my older son, who is almost 10, I bought Spelling Wisdom from the SCM site. I really love that program! |
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This is an excellent suggestion, and I agree about the program, Monica! I enjoy using Spelling Wisdom for dictation selections for all of my 10yo + children! It is an excellent resource and I particularly appreciate the index in the back of each book which allows you to find particular problem words and address them through dictation selections. If you have children old enough to consider dictation, Gina, this is a resource that I find valuable and helpful!
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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Grace&Chaos
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| Posted: July 20 2011 at 10:46am | IP Logged
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Mackfam wrote:
jawgee wrote:
| For my older son, who is almost 10, I bought Spelling Wisdom from the SCM site. I really love that program! |
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This is an excellent suggestion, and I agree about the program, Monica! I enjoy using Spelling Wisdom for dictation selections for all of my 10yo + children! It is an excellent resource and I particularly appreciate the index in the back of each book which allows you to find particular problem words and address them through dictation selections. If you have children old enough to consider dictation, Gina, this is a resource that I find valuable and helpful! |
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Jen, I purchased SW as well and plan on using with my two older girls. I thought though that for my 3rd grader I would just have her use book 1 as copywork and not with the dictation. Any thoughts on this approach?
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Jenny
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Grace in Loving Chaos
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ShannonJ
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| Posted: July 20 2011 at 11:02am | IP Logged
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Mackfam wrote:
Now, if your young child is writing independently and consistently chooses to mis-spell a particular word - how would you handle that? I would simply introduce a copywork selection that included that particular word in it (provided the word wasn't crazy difficult like *supercilious* or something .) So let's say that the child writes LAND with an E for the vowel....I'd simply choose a simple copywork selection with the word LAND in it, and give them an opportunity to VISUALIZE the word LAND with an A in it.
I WOULD NOT do this often, only when needed. But, I also would NOT allow a child to get in the habit of writing a word with incorrect spelling and this is why I might choose to address a particular word in this way.
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This is exactly what I was wondering. My oldest loves to illustrate and write stories. I never wanted to stop her, but her spelling was atrocious.  She has gotten better, but it certainly isn't intuitive. I can see now that she is old enough to be devouring books at an astonishing rate, that her spelling is improving - without much help from me.
I think that it was your language arts post that originally made me think that I needed to back off and not push spelling. I'm off to check it out again.
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Mackfam
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| Posted: July 20 2011 at 11:25am | IP Logged
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Grace&Chaos wrote:
Mackfam wrote:
jawgee wrote:
| For my older son, who is almost 10, I bought Spelling Wisdom from the SCM site. I really love that program! |
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This is an excellent suggestion, and I agree about the program, Monica! I enjoy using Spelling Wisdom for dictation selections for all of my 10yo + children! It is an excellent resource and I particularly appreciate the index in the back of each book which allows you to find particular problem words and address them through dictation selections. If you have children old enough to consider dictation, Gina, this is a resource that I find valuable and helpful! |
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Jen, I purchased SW as well and plan on using with my two older girls. I thought though that for my 3rd grader I would just have her use book 1 as copywork and not with the dictation. Any thoughts on this approach? |
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Hmmm...I don't really see anything wrong with it, except that I would be using it just as a copywork selection, which means that I'd be losing some valuable dictation sources when it came time to begin dictation. From experience, beginning dictation selections are best if they are short so that simple, short introductions to this new skill can be gentle rather than overwhelming because of the bulk/length of words and selections. Now, of course, you can always shorten a longer selection, and I have done that!! I just wouldn't want to lose those great beginning dictation selections.
And, some 3rd graders may be ready to begin dictations somewhere during 3rd grade.
I BEGIN DICTATION LESSONS WHEN: A child's handwriting/penmanship abilities have come far enough that it is no longer a skill to be mastered, but rather a skill that can be exercised with ease AND the child has been exposed to several years worth of great literature.
For some children that is somewhere in the 4th grade, for others it might be in 3rd grade, and it wouldn't be unusual AT ALL to wait until 5th grade with some writers! CM began dictations at age 10. It is important that a child not be struggling to remember how to form letters when writing the dictation selection. This means that copywork has been in place for awhile, letter formation is sound, and a child can exercise the skill of writing without thinking of their penmanship. It also means that a child has already been exposed to good literature for a few years because this has AN ENORMOUSLY UNDERVALUED IMPACT on a child's spelling and writing abilities and lays a foundation which CANNOT be overstated. This necessary exposure to good, living, wholesome literature is the reason I would not begin dictations any earlier than with an older 3rd grader, and would probably prefer to wait until 4th grade as Miss Mason recommended.
I know that goes a little beyond your question, Jenny, but I thought I'd express that since your 3rd grader might be close to that point of beginning dictations.
Back to the idea of using SW for copywork - I think that could be fine as long as you're not tempted to begin dictations too early. Going back and re-doing selections you've used for copywork could be viewed as boring or redundant to the child, so you might need to be prepared to have given those up selections for copywork.
Those are my thoughts anyway.
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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Mackfam
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| Posted: July 20 2011 at 11:36am | IP Logged
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ShannonJ wrote:
| I can see now that she is old enough to be devouring books at an astonishing rate, that her spelling is improving - without much help from me. |
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Oh, Shannon! You've done wonderfully then! You've discovered the great value of your dd reading good literature and the extensive benefits that liberal reading has throughout her education! And you've exercised one of the most difficult things to apply with CM - relax and have faith that it does work!! I'm so glad you shared your experience with us!
And, thank you for mentioning this:
ShannonJ wrote:
| My oldest loves to illustrate and write stories. I never wanted to stop her, but her spelling was atrocious. |
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...because this is the case for all children really. And it's ok!
I don't correct early writing attempts which are often (not always) completely phonetic attempts. It is only when they are beginning to write more on their own, and I see some words being written and I'm concerned that the incorrect spelling of that word has become a habit that I might choose to intervene with a very quick and simple lesson on VISUALIZATION of a word. By the way, this is an area that I LOVE to use my moveable alphabet with! SEE the word. SPELL the word...on the chalkboard, on paper, with the moveable alphabet, tracing in the air, trace in cornmeal. (Maybe not in all those areas...I don't try to overkill, but some ways of manipulating letters are more enjoyable to different children so I tried to include a variety!) All of my children really enjoy working with their box of little wooden letters and this is something children did in CM schools as well. They had their little boxes of letters which they would build words with. (Shhh!!! Don't tell anyone....but that is very Montessori!  )
ShannonJ wrote:
| I think that it was your language arts post that originally made me think that I needed to back off and not push spelling. I'm off to check it out again. |
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Thank you for your kind words, Shannon! What a joy if they could be a help to others!
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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MamaFence
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| Posted: July 20 2011 at 4:30pm | IP Logged
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Thank you! I should change my signature to have my kids' ages. My oldest is only 6, so that is what I mean by younger! Jen, thank you for linking the articles. I will read over them later tonight. It is a relief that spelling isn't necessary right now. I started last year with Seton, and the spelling book was for one, too easy for my daughter. She's an advanced reader, which probably helps.
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Gina, mother to 4
DD 7yr (11.04)
DD 5yr (6.06)
DS 3yr (6.08)
DS 2yr (11.09)
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4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: Spelling?
