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Grace&Chaos
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| Posted: March 15 2011 at 3:06pm | IP Logged
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I don't know what list I'm on that I received an email with a link to Queen Homeschool Supplies. Anyone ever heard of them or used them? I just purchased the StartWrite program and am looking forward to using it for our copy work book. But I kept thinking what about Language Arts for my little boys with some picture study, poetry (you get hte idea) ...
Now I've been browsing through this language art series, which absolutely reminds me of the Hillside PLL, ILL and Lingua Mater series. It looks very gentle for my little ones. I've been using the very gentle CM method of introducing reading and I know my six year old will be ready for the next step in the fall. I think I found that nice transition before he gets to PLL (which my current second grader will start in the fall). I had her using a combination of English for the Thoughtful Child and Language of God and last year I really struggled with what to give her. We ended up using the Ruth Heller books, Punctuation Celebration and her own lesson book to do copy work. Long ramble ... what do you think?
P.S. check out the Gatty's Parables of Nature book 
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Jenny
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JennGM
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| Posted: March 15 2011 at 5:02pm | IP Logged
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Queen is definitely a CM supplier, but unlike Mater Amabilis, it is not coming from a Catholic angle.
Did you look at the new Simply CM reading program? I was wondering if you were comparing.
I do like the look of Language Arts workbook, and it does remind me of PLL, which we just love. But PLL isn't exactly consumable...which I like. I guess I've become a little anti-workbook. We're using it for my son who is 7, doing 2nd grade work.
I'm looking at the language arts and it looks good. How much will you have to be locked into doing the program just so? If the child can grasp the phonics and the letters, can he move along faster? Or will you being trying to fit the program to the child instead of vice versa? Introducing the alphabet in 180 lessons? That sounds exhausting and tedious.
I sound a little rebellious, but I dislike being locked into reading selections and copywork that aren't reflecting what we're doing at home. I understand looking for something in the interim before PLL. I used MODG syllabus at the beginning of First Grade and the examples of poetry memorization were easy to catch on. I could easily see "Now We Are Six" and "Child's Garden of Verses" could be used a poetry and copywork.
BUT...at this young age, especially for a boy, I didn't do much copywork or dictation. I provided practice for learning to write, but I followed his lead and gave minimal required writing. Shocking, I know. I'm not a person to follow example, just sharing.
Not all children are the same...my son kind of breezed through the basics and just ended up reading and reading. I don't know how it happened. We did use Sound Beginnings, but so lightly. But it was great getting through the writing and the alphabet and the beginning phonograms. It requires minimal seatwork and since it's a bit with a Montessori outlook, it did have the child in mind with short lessons with all language arts involved.
For reading, we have many of the I Can Read books, and the older Step-Up books, and some Dolch books which were a terrific transition for him.
I'm sure that doesn't help...just bouncing ideas and conversing!
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Grace&Chaos
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| Posted: March 15 2011 at 5:31pm | IP Logged
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Jennifer, you're hitting many of my thoughts. We didn't use anything like this last year for first grade and I wasn't thinking of starting with the first one. I was looking at their 3rd book for little ones.
Funny, I was thinking of creating my own LA book using our own poetry, bible verses and phrases from other readings. I thought StartWrite would be perfect for it and then maybe add our own sprinkled picture study to just set the mood of PLL and then spiral bound with a nice cover. (something very light because I agree we are talking about boys and writing has been minimal here too  )
I'm enjoying the Simply CM program and was thinking of a next step but just know there is a big jump from it to PLL. Although, my six year old is doing really well. My soon to be five and three year olds are doing great too. We're at the letter recognition stage and moving to the letter sounds stage.
I think like you I don't want to be bound to someone else's picks and 180 lessons does sound a bit much.
The program more or less is giving me more of an Aha ... make my own LA for my Little Ones.
Thanks for your thoughts, they give me more to brainstorm from  .
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Jenny
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Grace in Loving Chaos
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ekbell
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| Posted: March 15 2011 at 6:47pm | IP Logged
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Classical writing also produces a series of Classical Writing Primers that uses CM methods.
I was fortunate to be able to get a PDF of the Fall book for free back when the series started (the offer is unfortunately long past) and I found it to be quite simple.
Four short lessons a week.
Day 1
-introduce the selection that will be copied over the week (taken from poetry or classical childrens stories
-read and oral narration a brief story (Aesops fables in fall), the child is encouraged to also draw a picture
-a bit of copywork from the week's selection and a grammar lesson based on the week's selection
Day 2
-a Nature study lesson
-copywork & grammar lesson based on week's selection
Day 3
-Read and oral narration, child is encouraged to draw a picture
-copywork and grammar lesson
Day 4
-Picture study
-Dictation or recitation of weeks copywork selection
-opportunity for drawing
While I found that the actual selections for copywork were longer then some of my children were ready for at the beginning of grade two, the format was fairly inspiring, partly becouse it's quite simple.
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Mackfam
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| Posted: March 15 2011 at 9:43pm | IP Logged
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I have looked at the Queen homeschool site several times, Jenny! I find myself enjoying the look of some of the compilations they offer - I've just never jumped.
My own preference for language arts for my little ones is very similar to Jenn's - it feels most comfortable when it naturally springs from the day and its offerings.
I've seen how each child really moves at his/her own pace in the reading and writing dept. during those early years. Language arts skills always seem to level out at a certain point in late elementary but those early years seem to really benefit from a gentle flexibility in working with individual children and their skill needs. My current 6 year old is a writing whiz!! My 10 year old is really just mastering this skill so that it is more useful and less a chore. Using the method of copywork and tailoring that to the reading selections and skill abilities I see in a child allows me to be gentle with choices, while also offering slight challenges at a pace that isn't overwhelming so that skills grow. It's an art to some degree, but not so elusive as it sounds. It's really just about that daily observation and those mini-brainstorming moments...asking myself questions, reflecting, adjusting, moving forward.
Anyway, each of my children benefit from the same *method* of copywork and narration and I can suit the individual work to address their needs as they are *today* using selections from literature/poetry...and adjust as they change.
If I'm using a workbook as a tool (and they can be useful tools at times!!!), it might only fit one window of a child's developing skill....and that window could last a couple of months, rendering some/a majority of the workbook meaningless and uninspiring once a child has progressed beyond that skill. Conversely, that window of skill building could last several years making the work level of a workbook monotonous and boring.
I hope this makes sense - I do see instances where workbook type work can be a real tool to the home educating mother, and those Queen workbooks do look lovely!! In general, the CM methods of language arts lend themselves so much toward the relationships that develop in home education (both between parent/child and child/idea) that I relish the time spent together and choose not to delegate that time. If I think of all the treasured narrations I've heard over the years and the time spent choosing copywork for little budding writers as well as the time each child has spent working on meaningful (to them) copywork, I find that I am very attached and almost defensive of that time investment spent both choosing work and enjoying the fruits of their work.
Language Arts for Little Ones CM style in our home:
Our copywork choices spring from my belief and experience that VARIETY is so key. If we're enjoying thematic read alouds, I might pull from that literature, something like Beatrix Potter or Thornton Burgess. I sometimes pull from Catholic readers we have. My default setting is to take copywork from classic, seasonal poetry, and this forms the backbone of much of our early years copywork choices. I enjoy the ability to offer variety and tailor selections as well as address and gently challenge skill ability (which can change rapidly with consistent practice). From 1st - 3rd grade language arts consists of oral narrations and simple copywork. I don't begin dictations until 4th grade (unless I have a very good writer) We enjoy and use the Hillside books as tools and these may supplement part of our language arts choices.
Hope this is a help as you consider what works best in your home, Jenny!
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Jen Mackintosh
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Grace&Chaos
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| Posted: March 15 2011 at 10:58pm | IP Logged
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Thanks Jen for the insight.
If you haven't noticed from some of my posts lately I'm suffering from large family super planning syndrome  . I'm not looking for a workbook or boxed curriculum at all but at the same time I do have to plan in order to have things run smoothly (at least that's what my logical side is saying).
I did purchase the StartWrite and have started making one sentence copywork pages based on books and poetry I know will be reading with my six year old, but then I hesistate because I don't know where he will be and at what point he'll be there. This is where I love reading the insight from more experienced moms  .
I think that because with my seven year old her first grade year we completely dropped all our "boxed curriculum" work and just went on a week by week basis (I basicly had the areas we would study & what days, but no daily plans) we ended up having a very relaxed and true CM year with her, dare I say almost unschooly.
Unfortunately, I'm finding myself in a small panic trying to make sure I can provide the same atmosphere for my ds without the distractions his little brothers bring. And yes Queens books do look lovely and complete. But I'm forgetting that I didn't plan her year but succumbed to her needs and worked on them as they came up.
As I've pondered on this post and the advice I've been given I found myself taking out my dd notebooks from last year. As part of her language arts I actually typed up some of her narrations, printed them and pasted them to her notebook. She then would do a drawing next to them. Other parts of that notebook just have her copywork from some of the intro to grammar books or other things we were reading with some more drawings. Her other suject notebooks look very similar minus the printed narrations we just did that in LA, those were drawing narrations mostly that she would then tell me about  . I can see exactly what you mean about attachment and meaningfulness of their work.
Conclusion, RELAX, what we did has worked once and will again. I have to admit I do plan on buying some adhesive backed paper to print our copy work pages and place in the notebook. The penmanship on just my ruler pencil lines could be much improved  . I think this will also allow me to follow his lead on what will be good selections for him without planning 180 lessons by the end of summer  . (a spiral bound or book looking notebook works better for my kids. if its in a binder they just end up torn up somewhere, you have to love little boys  )
Thanks ekbell for the link. Some great ideas there too! I have found some of the materials out there very helpful in finding things that would be interesting or would work well with us (not to mention how to go about a particular method) and I always love hearing how others have worked through things and enjoyed them.
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Jenny
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Grace in Loving Chaos
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Mackfam
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| Posted: March 16 2011 at 7:31am | IP Logged
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Grace&Chaos wrote:
| Thanks Jen for the insight. |
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You're welcome! I am so glad you saw it not as a condemnation of a workbooks (it wasn't meant that way!!), but as permission to continue doing what you've been doing already and so brilliantly!!! It is a little intimidating every time a new little person steps formally into the learning spaces. While I don't see my methods changing, I have found ways to be creative with my planning time so that I can address needs on a real-time basis rather than trying to anticipate a whole year (teacher days at the beginning of each month, planning weeks in between terms). Like you, and I believe CM would have been a proponent of this, I function on a good master plan which I consider before our year and then (try to) thoughtfully apply throughout the year. The master plan gives direction, the day-by-day consideration allows room to breathe. This planning gets MUCH easier as they get bigger - MUCH! As I mentioned earlier, children's skills and abilities level off and then planning for the year isn't so much about skill building but idea gathering - LOVELY!! When they're little, there is introduction to ideas and we attach skill building to those ideas because those relationships are so important, but skills develop quickly...or they may need time grow into skills - either way, the methods are consistent and bring variety. The methods of copywork and narration address either variable in a way that is fresh and lovely, or at least it has in our home.
Grace&Chaos wrote:
| I did purchase the StartWrite and have started making one sentence copywork pages based on books and poetry I know will be reading with my six year old, but then I hesistate because I don't know where he will be and at what point he'll be there. This is where I love reading the insight from more experienced moms . |
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I wanted to add one other thing for you to consider. Roxie reminded me of it from her post on the copywork buffet thread. Both my boys prefer *factual* copywork!!!! Scientific laws, quotes from brainiacs, poetry that assists memorizing something useful (like 30 days hath September...)!! My daughter prefers copywork with lovely ideas. It threw me for a loop because like you, I went from providing copywork for my dd to copywork for my ds, and he was not thrilled  with some of my initial selections! Another reason I like feeling things out as we go! He does enjoy poetry copywork, but there's a distinct difference in the poetry he likes to copy and the poetry dd enjoys! Just file that one away so that when you come across a lovely nugget regarding weaponry, you can SAVE IT FOR COPYWORK!!
Grace&Chaos wrote:
| I think that because with my seven year old her first grade year we completely dropped all our "boxed curriculum" work and just went on a week by week basis (I basicly had the areas we would study & what days, but no daily plans) we ended up having a very relaxed and true CM year with her, dare I say almost unschooly. |
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Sounds a lot like our early years...right down to the almost unschooly part! It's relaxed and lovely, but the initial master plan gives us the direction and the rudder we need!
Grace&Chaos wrote:
| Conclusion, RELAX, what we did has worked once and will again. |
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Brilliant!
Grace&Chaos wrote:
| I have to admit I do plan on buying some adhesive backed paper to print our copy work pages and place in the notebook. |
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Ok - now I'm curious!!! Tell me about this!!
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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Grace&Chaos
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| Posted: March 16 2011 at 8:29am | IP Logged
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Mackfam wrote:
Grace&Chaos wrote:
| I have to admit I do plan on buying some adhesive backed paper to print our copy work pages and place in the notebook. |
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Ok - now I'm curious!!! Tell me about this!! |
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The Copy work buffet thread is now officially in my favorites. I'll be rereading that one for a while.
As for my notebooks. Like I mentioned we have a hard time with binders. We keep our plans in them and they are high so the younger boys don't reach them. But for keeping our work we have two file cabinets (that match our learning space furniture) where all our composition notebooks, school related books and any spiral bound books I might create (like the copy books I made for my girls this year). So my daughters notebooks were all blank drawing paper pads. We dressed up the cover and that's what we used because I didn't want lined notebooks to interfere with her drawings. My ds is even more artistic than her and I know he will enjoy this too but in the efforts to provide him with the lined structured copywork we'll print from StartWrite I'm thinking about using something like this and place on the notebook on the days we happen to do copywork. That way he can drawing narrations or the printed oral narrations like we did before. Using the stick glue just left some minor piling on the notebook and I now he'll need something smoother to have the copywork function as penmanship too. Just something I'm thinking of trying .
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Blessings,
Jenny
Mom to dds(00,03) and dss(05,06,08,09)
Grace in Loving Chaos
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Angel
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| Posted: March 16 2011 at 9:11am | IP Logged
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Grace&Chaos wrote:
If you haven't noticed from some of my posts lately I'm suffering from large family super planning syndrome |
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Ok, I had to laugh at this. Boy, do I understand.
Queen Homeschool was at the homeschool convention I recently attended, but I didn't get a chance to look at their offerings for the littles... I mostly focused on their high school offerings. (Didn't buy any, though.)
I've used the Memoria Press copybooks with a couple of my kids. Copybook I is supposed to be for kindergarten, but I think that's ambitious. I like having copywork all laid out and provided for me (due to the large family thing), but what I run into using these books is that if the child's reading isn't keeping up with the pre-written copywork, then at some point he's just writing gobbledy-gook and will treat it accordingly -- especially if he's not interested in what he's writing. At that point, it would probably be better for me to pull sentences from our reading. (Those sentences might be difficult, too, but at least they would be somewhat familiar.)
I like the idea of making my own book of copywork for, say, a term at a time. I had wanted to do that this year for my older kids, but life sort of got in the way.
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Angela
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Angel
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| Posted: March 16 2011 at 9:16am | IP Logged
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JennGM wrote:
We did use Sound Beginnings, but so lightly. But it was great getting through the writing and the alphabet and the beginning phonograms. It requires minimal seatwork and since it's a bit with a Montessori outlook, it did have the child in mind with short lessons with all language arts involved.
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Jenn, I think you may have talked about this in the past, but how easy is Sound Beginnings to use? I'm thinking that my struggling reader could benefit from a strengthening of the phonogram approach. I'm teaching 2 other kids to read at the same time. Is it something that I could use while also juggling a high schooler, a 7th grader, preschooler, and toddler?
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Angela
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JennGM
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| Posted: March 16 2011 at 10:03am | IP Logged
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Mackfam wrote:
Grace&Chaos wrote:
| Thanks Jen for the insight. |
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You're welcome! I am so glad you saw it not as a condemnation of a workbooks (it wasn't meant that way!!), but as permission to continue doing what you've been doing already and so brilliantly!!! |
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I wanted to just interject, when I said I'm "anti-workbook" I mean in my house. Workbooks don't seem to work here well. I feel they go to waste. The times we have used some, they are bits and pieces. The workbook ends up lying fallow, and it taunts me that I wasted money and was inconsistent and didn't follow through.
So that's my perspective in my own world...not meant as denying the usefulness of the workbook for others.
That being said, those Classical Writing primers look really, really good. The age range (1-4) and variety for the seasons make them look like you could pick them up at various times? It is so CM in approach, and all-inclusive!
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Becky Parker
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| Posted: March 16 2011 at 10:13am | IP Logged
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Angel wrote:
I like having copywork all laid out and provided for me (due to the large family thing), but what I run into using these books is that if the child's reading isn't keeping up with the pre-written copywork, then at some point he's just writing gobbledy-gook and will treat it accordingly -- especially if he's not interested in what he's writing.
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I agree Angel! I've just discovered this in a very positive way. My 7yo struggles terribly with copywork. His reading is also not so great. I recently started using the CM method to teach reading as described here. I am so over joyed at the progress we're making. My ds has improved mightily.
Each day I have him copy that part of the poem we have learned to read using this method. It is amazing to me how careful he is in his copying of these words that he now understands. I didn't realize that previous to this, I was having him copy words beyond his reading ability and his copying looked like scribbling in a lot of situations.
I too like the idea of creating copywork as it comes. While the planner in me wants to plan it out for the year, I am learning that quarterly is about as far as out I should plan because the kid's interests and abilities change so quickly.
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Becky
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Grace&Chaos
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Angel, I looked at the Memoria Press Copybooks too . I'm really liking the idea of just doing it by terms/quarters to stay in tune with the childs need.
Jenn, I honestly do read post and try to look at the possibilities of something working or not not in my home. Like you said bouncing ideas and conversing really helps me get there .
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Jenny
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JennGM
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Angel wrote:
JennGM wrote:
| We did use Sound Beginnings, but so lightly. But it was great getting through the writing and the alphabet and the beginning phonograms. It requires minimal seatwork and since it's a bit with a Montessori outlook, it did have the child in mind with short lessons with all language arts involved. |
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Jenn, I think you may have talked about this in the past, but how easy is Sound Beginnings to use? I'm thinking that my struggling reader could benefit from a strengthening of the phonogram approach. I'm teaching 2 other kids to read at the same time. Is it something that I could use while also juggling a high schooler, a 7th grader, preschooler, and toddler? |
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Angela, I'm no expert. I would akin SB to a bit like RightStart. SB is even easier and all laid out, less planning and materials than RS (which is minimal IMHO). But it is one-on-one time, albeit short. I would sometimes combine lessons but still the time was shorter. My toddler learns alongside when he is interested (same with math), and he can get paper and write while we're writing.
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SuzanneG
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Angel wrote:
I like having copywork all laid out and provided for me (due to the large family thing), but what I run into using these books is that if the child's reading isn't keeping up with the pre-written copywork, then at some point he's just writing gobbledy-gook and will treat it accordingly -- especially if he's not interested in what he's writing. At that point, it would probably be better for me to pull sentences from our reading. (Those sentences might be difficult, too, but at least they would be somewhat familiar.)
I like the idea of making my own book of copywork for, say, a term at a time. I had wanted to do that this year for my older kids, but life sort of got in the way. |
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I agree, Angela...about the gobbeldy-gook-thing.
One thing I've done for the past couple of years for the early elementary years / early readers is have a SET ROTATION of copywork......
So....for example, for my 7 yo.....I have this set up:
:: Monday - FHC copywork....I have a couple things READY (that I set up last summer)...but most of the time, it's something that we're going through for that week. But, if I didn't get a chance to get something together, then she knows to go to that section of her binder and get a page.
:: Tuesday - History Copywork....she tags along on History with the older girls and they all do a simple page from Happy Scribe.
:: Wednesday - Life on the Farm
:: Thursday - Poem A couple lines from the poem she's working on.
On some of these days we ditch the plan and do copywork according to a feast day or a picture book or whatever....but this is my default, which has been especially helpful this year with pregnancy and new baby.
Also, I would only do this set rotation with kiddos that can READ THEIR OWN ASSIGNMENT ...so if they can read the rotation, then half the logistics-challenge for me is done...they get it out and get ready to work.
So, there is variety and flexibility....but there is a framework in place to help with the "large family thing."
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Grace&Chaos
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Suzanne, I like your rotation idea and use it with my older girls. This does help put some structure in place. I also have the Happy Scribes history copywork and was thinking of using some it with my older girls in the fall.
This year for history copywork (scheduled on Wednesdays ) I printed Copybook of the Presidents (which I got for free from an on online conference). It works well alongside our American History studies and has become a nice conversation starter too.
What is "FHC"? So sorry drawing a blank
I'm definitely keeping in mind the "gobbeldy-gook-thing" for my ds .
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Jenny
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SuzanneG
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Grace&Chaos wrote:
| What is "FHC"? So sorry drawing a blank |
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First Holy Communion
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Suzanne in ID
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4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: Language Arts for Little Ones CM Style
