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JennGM
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| Posted: June 09 2010 at 2:21pm | IP Logged
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As I'm trying to make my plans, I'm feeling a bit  because it seems like everything is disjointed. The elements stand alone, and don't gell (jell?) together.
I'm planning for a 2nd grade boy, profient reader, not keen on writing, and making his First Confession and Communion in the spring.
These are the elements I want/need for Language Arts:
Writing: Printing, into Cursive
Phonics
Spelling
Grammar (thinking beginning diagrams)
Reading
Writings
Comprehension
Of course, with CM approach, I can incorporate narration, dictation, and copywork. What aspects are usually checked off on that?
I still want to reinforce phonics and grammar alone. I don't completely agree with Miss Mason in those areas. 
Here's what I'm wanting to use:
::Primary Language Lessons from Hillside and/or Writing With Ease
::Sound Beginnings or Writing Road to Reading for spelling (Does this satisfy phonics need?)
::Handwriting text or something to learn cursive
::Mary Daly's Diagramming Text. On the fence about this year or next year. Would do only if he found it interesting, but I think he will because it's taking apart and analyzing sentences (a bit like math).
Coupled with picture and chapter books to read aloud and alone, using for narration. Using Mater Amabilis and MODG for suggestions.
It seems so much and too loosey-goosey. Would it tie together better with themes (American history, seasons, liturgical year, First Communion, saints).
Too much, too little? I just keep thinking I'm missing some very simple steps. I need the big overview of what I'm trying to achieve, and then the breakdown into various aspects of language arts, and then back together again to be able to teach it so it's not so individually piecemeal.
Does that make any sense, or does lying down too many days in a row starting to affect my thinking? 
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to  & ds1  '03 & ds2  '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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hylabrook1
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| Posted: June 09 2010 at 2:45pm | IP Logged
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Jenn - I have found every year that "Language Arts" in its many sub-categories (the same ones you've listed), takes up by far the greatest number of lesson slots. But that only makes sense, because if your language skills are not well-developed, you'll probably have lots of issues with other subject areas. As far as Grammar goes, I would recommend starting with Winston Grammar before going to a more formal diagramming book. Winston starts very simply - "a, an, the -- the only three articles; go through the sentences and identify only those". You don't need to *get* what a verb is in order to begin pulling the sentence apart, you don't have the formal lines drawn (baseline, should the next line be perpendicular or at an angle to the baseline?). Winston builds the sentence using color-coded cards, some of which give helpful hints. As much as I enjoy diagramming, the Winston system is much more engaging, especially for young and beginning diagrammers, imho.
As far as involving the other bits, such as handwriting, phonics, PLL, these would probably benefit from daily attention, but maybe only 10 minutes each. And they don't have to be back-to-back, unless that works better for your child. And, yes, I would tie things in with themes. Reinforce parts of the First Communion prep by using it as handwriting practice (after he's gotten the individual letters and joining them). I think one of the Winston Grammar books I have has U.S. History sentences, or you could easily make up 2 or 3 a day (my children didn't do the whole page each day, just a couple of sentences, as long as they did them correctly - I saved the others for extra practice or review as needed). Language Arts is a great area for *cross-pollination*. Actually, my children always have lost patience when they are given LA work that doesn't hook into something else they are interested in or are studying.
Peace,
Nancy
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Mackfam
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| Posted: June 09 2010 at 3:16pm | IP Logged
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Loved Nancy's post, but this part was my favorite...
hylabrook1 wrote:
| Language Arts is a great area for *cross-pollination*. |
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For second grade, we do:
* narration (which covers reading, comprehension, organization of thought, pre-writing skills)
* copywork (which covers penmanship and this, as Nancy puts it so well, cross-pollinates with history, science, religion, liturgical year, and poetry choices)
* dictation (which covers beginning grammar and mechanics and spelling)
I like the PLL and ILL books for filling in with early elementary language arts. Around 4th grade, I really enjoy using Winston Grammar for the reasons Nancy gave.
hylabrook1 wrote:
| Actually, my children always have lost patience when they are given LA work that doesn't hook into something else they are interested in or are studying. |
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Ditto.
As far as your desire to continue with phonics outside of narration/copywork/dictation...I guess I'd just continue with what you're already doing if it's working.
Writing Road is EXTREMELY teacher intensive. Good - yes. Successful, especially at helping a child who is struggling or dyslexic - yes. But, very time intensive. I think I've heard you mention that you use Sound Beginnings. I'm unfamiliar with it, but can you just continue with it?
Cringing...but...I wouldn't start diagramming yet. I do know that you have a special fondness for it. He'll get there, I promise! And you'll be diagramming your little hearts out...but since you mention that he's not too keen on writing, perhaps you could stick with finishing up his phonics lessons and allow him to transition gently into more writing (which is sometimes tough for boys...I have one son that writes beautifully at 5...and another that is still working hard at legibility at 9)
So...that would mean that your narration, copywork (penmanship), and dictation all tie in to read alouds and whatever your ds is reading as he prepares for FHC and in History and Science and Nature Study. Then, you could alternate days working with your phonics program choice and PLL.
Does that seem workable? You've got a great foundation of language arts ideas really!
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19 , ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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SuzanneG
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| Posted: June 09 2010 at 3:44pm | IP Logged
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JennGM wrote:
These are the elements I want/need for Language Arts:
Writing: Printing, into Cursive
Phonics
Spelling
Grammar (thinking beginning diagrams)
Reading
Writings
Comprehension |
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Spelling, Grammar, "comprehension" (narration), copywork, beginning writing/composition.....would all be taken care of with PLL, if you went that route.
Otherwise, if you do NOT use PLL, he could do.....
:: daily copywork (handwriting, spelling, grammar)
:: phonics work (continuing with Sound Beginnings)
:: cursive
:: narration (counts as beginning writing or composition)
:: reading (books on his own....history, religion, etc.)
IF....you thought he was ready for very easy beginning dictation excercises, you could start that too. He's a fluent reader, so he may be ready. Since you think he'd find diagramming interesting (the analysis part) maybe he'd be ready for dictation and would like it.
Does he enjoy writing???? As in writing letters, writing stories???? on his own? Or not at all??? If he enjoys it, I'd incorporate some easy writing exercises (only if you're not doing PLL) and also beginning writing narrations....1 or 2 sentences, but not eliminating verbal narrations, or course.
My 6.5 yo loves writing and will write pages and pages. Whereas my 7.5 and 9 yo just now are starting to do easy written narrations.
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Suzanne in ID
Wife to Pete
Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
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JennGM
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| Posted: June 09 2010 at 3:46pm | IP Logged
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Ah, Nancy and Jen! Thank you!  I wasn't sure I was even making sense. Great advice, thanks.
Love the "cross-pollination" observation! Just perfect!
Mackfam wrote:
| Cringing...but...I wouldn't start diagramming yet. I do know that you have a special fondness for it. He'll get there, I promise! And you'll be diagramming your little hearts out...but since you mention that he's not too keen on writing, perhaps you could stick with finishing up his phonics lessons and allow him to transition gently into more writing (which is sometimes tough for boys...I have one son that writes beautifully at 5...and another that is still working hard at legibility at 9) |
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Don't cringe, Jen! I asked! I was on the fence anyway. It's in the plans, just trying to decide where to go. I agree, I should wait 1 or 2 years before I do it.
Sound Beginnings is a "translation" of WRtoR. It's well done. After going through all the phonograms, it's spelling lists for the following years. While my son isn't crazy about the actual physcial writing, he does write well and takes pride in well-done work. He really enjoys breaking down words for the phonogram sounds and syllables (One of the reasons I know this is he teaches his younger brother these things!).
But what I found was missing this year in phonics (but easily remedied) was that we didn't cover things like antonymns, homophones, homonyms, etc. It was covered in the CAT, so I started to think "Great, we missed it." But it turns out we did cover it with Brian Cleary's books. Also learning the names of the parts of speech and identifying them, he did cover a bit from Cleary, Ruth Heller, and Schoolhouse Rock.
What I'm voicing here is that I do need some "schooly" checkpoints. He is aware of these elements in action, but sometimes needs the identifiers. I do use the CAT or perhaps another standardized test at the end of the year (for dh and state compliance).
So that's the element that I'm seeing a bit absent from all this. I understand it's not absolutely necessary, but...
What else I see is that if I don't have my act together to cross-pollinate, everything could fall apart. A bit nerve-wracking.
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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SuzanneG
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| Posted: June 09 2010 at 3:52pm | IP Logged
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JennGM wrote:
But what I found was missing this year in phonics (but easily remedied) was that we didn't cover things like antonymns, homophones, homonyms, etc. It was covered in the CAT, so I started to think "Great, we missed it." But it turns out we did cover it with Brian Cleary's books. Also learning the names of the parts of speech and identifying them, he did cover a bit from Cleary, Ruth Heller, and Schoolhouse Rock.
What I'm voicing here is that I do need some "schooly" checkpoints. He is aware of these elements in action, but sometimes needs the identifiers. I do use the CAT or perhaps another standardized test at the end of the year (for dh and state compliance). |
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Oh my gosh!!!!! Really????? antonymns, homophones, homonyms???? I'm practically on the floor DYING!  Even if it were on a standardized test that my kids HAD to take, I would absolutely care less if they didn't know this! It's a 1st grader! Most adults couldn't define those terms!
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Suzanne in ID
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Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
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JennGM
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| Posted: June 09 2010 at 4:11pm | IP Logged
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SuzanneG wrote:
JennGM wrote:
But what I found was missing this year in phonics (but easily remedied) was that we didn't cover things like antonymns, homophones, homonyms, etc. It was covered in the CAT, so I started to think "Great, we missed it." But it turns out we did cover it with Brian Cleary's books. Also learning the names of the parts of speech and identifying them, he did cover a bit from Cleary, Ruth Heller, and Schoolhouse Rock.
What I'm voicing here is that I do need some "schooly" checkpoints. He is aware of these elements in action, but sometimes needs the identifiers. I do use the CAT or perhaps another standardized test at the end of the year (for dh and state compliance). |
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Oh my gosh!!!!! Really????? antonymns, homophones, homonyms???? I'm practically on the floor DYING! Even if it were on a standardized test that my kids HAD to take, I would absolutely care less if they didn't know this! It's a 1st grader! Most adults couldn't define those terms! |
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Okay, don't laugh too hard.  Maybe I'm getting mixed up and remembering when his cousin came over (same age) and started asking my son if he knew what these were, as he had just learned them! (I think he was using MCP phonics.)
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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SeaStar
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| Posted: June 09 2010 at 5:15pm | IP Logged
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Jen,
My ds just took the CAT test for first grade, and I thought some of the English questions were WAY OVER THE TOP for a first grader. I actually snorted when I saw them. We have to do it for state compliance, but really-- what first grade class covers all of that stuff? Most of them are still trying to get kids reading.
And then the math portion... very simplistic IMO. And then tricky... black and white pictures of coins showing the backs of the coins only. Sheesh!
But I did read that the CAT intentionally makes some parts very easy and some parts far beyond what they think a child at a certain level can do. But I still think it's a very limited way of assessing knowledge and serves only to make HS moms irritated and/or panicked.
And now that I am done with my rant , I did want to mention the handwriting book that CHC uses for Grade 2. It is very gentle, especially for a boy who does not like to write, plus it is totally tied into First Communion prep. Here is a link and then if you click on sample you can see some of the pages.
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Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
SQUILT Music Appreciation
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JuliaT
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Jenn, I wouldn't teach diagramming until your ds is in gr.4 or 5. I feel very strongly about teaching diagramming (am for it) but I think it needs to wait until the child is older.
In a perfect world, I would teach grammar, narration, copywork, dictation, narration, spelling and handwriting via Ruth Beechick. I love how she advocates teaching language arts by way of literature. I found her book You CAN Teach Your Child Successfully to be very helpful in explaining how to do this with excerpts from your read alouds. I did try this last year and a bit this year but my problem is that I have a hard time trusting simple. I mistakenly think that if it is simple then it can't be working.
Two more things, 1) Writing Road to Reading gave me hives(figuratively speaking) when I attempted to use it. I find this program very difficult to use. I would not use it for spelling. 2) I also wouldn't start cursive until he is in, at least, gr. 3. Just because they do this in ps does not mean it is a good thing.
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Julia
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: June 11 2010 at 3:37pm | IP Logged
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Jenn, if you did want to use Sound Beginnings and do cursive first, Don Potter has "Cursive Road to Reading" cards (and lesson plans) based on Samuel Blumenfeld's Alphaphonics book. I'm not sure if the phonograms correspond exactly with the WRTR phonograms, I haven't combed over them that carefully. link to cards
I also have Startwrite files of WRTR phonograms in cursive I can share if you do decide to get the program.
I'm still waffling between my own modified version of WRTR or buying something like All About Spelling. Sigh. I'm just in first grade, and MODG doesn't use Sound Beginnings until then, so I feel like I have at least a year to waffle, and I could always buy All About Spelling and start that later in the year if what I was doing wasn't working out.
Sorry to ramble in your thread. It IS sort of mind boggling to figure out how to balance all this. I REALLY want to follow so many of CM's language arts things, but I just think that phonics is where I most disagree with CM, but that "adds" a subject, too. Sigh.
Julia, the Ruth Beechick sounds like a good resource! Thanks!
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Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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ALmom
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| Posted: June 11 2010 at 8:29pm | IP Logged
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Oh my, I'm right there with you guys and you'd think by the time I am working with child 6 in 1st, I'd have a pretty good idea what to do. But I don't and I've been spending most of my time banging my head against the wall on high school plans for a different child.
My little guy has made his first confession (he is almost 8), will be preparing for 1st Communion. He barely reads, memorizes like a whip anything he hears (good or bad  so we try to make sure as best we are able that it is good). He loved poetry memorization and he loves to perform - anything that puts him center stage. He is very confident in math and has a really good number sense. Part of it is that he is trying to race to catch up with older brothers in math - so he wants me to teach him multiplication - not sure we're quite ready for that yet though I may have to relook at the Montessori type things here. However, he has resisted learning to actually write numbers or letters. He is very interested in reading more right now. Because he doesn't write, I haven't done much with spelling, though I do plan to have him use my homemade moveable alphabet for that.
I'm looking closely at Materabilis, PLL, Jenn plans for her 1st grader and now the discussion here. I'm sure my plans for this guy will cross over K, 1st and 2nd depending on the subject.
I don't think I will do WRR with this guy - though I will continue it with my oldest 2 schooling next year. It is very teacher intensive and without some very old written hints on how to make it work, I really don't think we'd have ever managed to make it work. (I did have to use it with one of mine as it was the only thing that finally worked). I have glanced at my sister's sound beginnings and it is tempting to just try something like MODG recommendations with Sound Beginnings - because it integrates a lot of areas of Language Arts and it seems like it would help me a lot not to be juggling too many curriculum pieces - something simple that would cover a lot of bases, a gentle following of PLL and read alouds, dictations and handwriting. Math will be interesting. I haven't a clue what to do. I've thought about revisiting Miquon math because it maintains a hands on, I already own the teacher book and so it would be cheaper than most anything else.
I'm looking at everyones suggestions for ideas.
You are working with homophones, etc with out ever thinking about it - all the time. It will be easy to put a name to what they are later. Reading, talking, looking at spelling all bring those things up. I think when one of mine was in 3rd, I simply pulled out a page here and there from MCP books I had. I also used this to reinforce anything by cutting out the rules and gluing them to index cards. (I really hated MCP so it had been sitting on my shelf for years and I found a way to declutter and put it to good use I'd say there is no need to stress about that. I'm sure you are just fine.
I couldn't even dream of doing diagramming with that age (but then again maybe because I'd just love to see them write anything at that point and I certainly wouldn't be adding to written work) - but you can certainly set up the skills by informal find the noun in the passage or some such - gently. When it comes time to start - Winston is a gentle introduction without a lot of writing. We went from that to full blown diagramming.
One thing I really want to include for my little guy is art - and music. He loves the violin and begged for summer lessons (our teacher doesn't teach in the summer). I think the art will be a fun way to build those writing muscles up. Cut and Create, insets and such - but also an art teacher who will give them some tools. He is also a very avid nature observer so maybe he'd be a lot more willing to draw and copy about his nature observations. Even a color page would be a start.
I'm thinking about ordering CHC 2nd grade for the 1st communion plans but waffling because I know academically a different level would be better.
Janet
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4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: Putting It All Together
