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MarilynW
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I am just pondering handwriting - how much importance to place on it, especially cursive... my children are generally writing in cursive by the time they are in third grade, and we practice penmanship until about 5th or 6th grade. But I am wondering whether to bother with cursive - one of mine has totally illegible cursive - and I am sure when he gets to high school will just develop his own style of writing.
I know Andrew Pudewa says we teach boys cursive so that they can read their future wives' letters!! But I am seriously wondering about whether I need to focus so much on cursive - and concentrate on legible writing instead?
Then there is the whole technology element - my boys do so much better with their creative writing when it is done using Word.
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Marilyn
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dakotamidnight
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I was a kid who never got cursive, and the only time it ever comes up now is signing checks - I use a stylized print and some places don't want to take it as a signature. I can't read in cursive either which is actually the more troublesome problem.
I'm leaning towards no cursive at all for writing - with the way things are with computers today I really think it's obsolete. But I do want them to learn to read cursive.
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melanie
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We do teach cursive. I'm not sure if it's worth it or not.  My two that have learned it though were excited about doing so, so that made the decision easier. They thought it was cool.
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Melanie
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pmeilaen
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I teach cursive in first grade after having introduced manuscript briefly. From then on we write in cursive exclusively.
Here are some links on cursive that might me helpful to understand why cursive still matters:
Soul Development Through Cursive
SmithHand Cursive
Cursive First.
Someone recommended Handwriting Without Tears for boys who have trouble with cursive.
Hope this helps. 
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ekbell
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I also think it's of reasonably important to be able to read cursive.
As for writing in cursive, it is a very good idea to be able to sign one's name and it's also quite a good idea to work on having a legible and reasonably quick 'hand' of some sort although it need not be cursive.
My husband was a engineering TA at university and he found it most annoying to be unable to mark someone because he honestly could not read their writing. He still tells the tale of one exam with handwriting which was truly lovely to behold but was completely unreadable by any of the TA's or prof [the most beautiful *and* the most illegible handwriting he has ever seen].
Given the reasons why most of my university math exams were without calculators, I doubt that such exams will cease being handwritten.
As far as I'm concerned fine penmanship (over and above legibility) counts as a fine art. So I've made sure that there are instructional materials around, that there is time,decent material and workspaces available and that the children know about this but I don't require it of the children.
My children do do some copy-work four days a week and I give comments on the legibility of their efforts.
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Erin
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Marilyn
I've just been reading about Teaching Handwriting in an old (1970) Department of Education Curriculum, lots of words of wisdom in this book.
They say: The essential characteristics of good handwriting are-
1)legibility, with some beauty of form;
2)fluency, rhythm and reasonable speed;
Like ekbell my children do Copywork as a subject daily. My 8 and 10 are currently learning cursive and loving it. Having said that my 14 and 12 year old's writing is an embarrassment. I didn't expect as high a standard which I am now second time around. (Still trying for the older boys  )
I think whether to teach cursive or not is an individual choice, I have some friends who aren't bothering.
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Angel
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One of the side effects (this is not the right term, but I don't know what else you'd call it) of my oldest's Tourette's Syndrome is fine motor difficulties and problems with cursive. We were told specifically by the educational psychologist who tested him as a 9 yo not to worry too much about cursive, and just to let him print if he needed to.
So I don't worry too much about cursive. He's done handwriting every year -- is still doing it, really, with Seton's Grade 6-8 material -- and while he can write fairly neatly in the workbooks, he never, ever uses cursive on a voluntary basis. To be honest, though, in real life... my parents are both engineers and print in all caps on a regular basis... and my dh is in finance and only uses cursive to sign his name. Keeping this in mind, I *do* require the kids to learn cursive... but I don't make them use it if they're really resistant to it. I basically want them to be able to sign their names and to be able to read other people's cursive. I think those are the necessary survival skills regarding cursive.
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MarilynW
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Angel wrote:
| He's done handwriting every year -- is still doing it, really, with Seton's Grade 6-8 material -- and while he can write fairly neatly in the workbooks, he never, ever uses cursive on a voluntary basis. To be honest, though, in real life... my parents are both engineers and print in all caps on a regular basis... and my dh is in finance and only uses cursive to sign his name. Keeping this in mind, I *do* require the kids to learn cursive... but I don't make them use it if they're really resistant to it. I basically want them to be able to sign their names and to be able to read other people's cursive. I think those are the necessary survival skills regarding cursive. |
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Angel - I could have written most of this. We do copywork or handwriting practice every day. One of my ds writes beautifully in his copywork book - but when he never chooses to write in cursive when writing in other subjects or for pleasure. I started requiring him to write in cursive - and now am rethinking it.
My dd (13) has beautiful cursive and does calligraphy for pleasure. But I see with her high school work when she is doing timed tests, handwritten essays etc she has developed her own style of writing - which is neat and legible but not traditional cursive.
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MarilynW
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Thank you everyone for your help and links etc. Funnily enough none of my children have complained about cursive - esp. as copywork is daily for us. But if a child is not choosing it for himself, as he gets older, I do not want to make an issue of it.
We did start 2 of the boys on HWT - but moved to more traditional cursive as they got older - I do not like the look of the HWT cursive.
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Mimip
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MarilynW wrote:
We did start 2 of the boys on HWT - but moved to more traditional cursive as they got older - I do not like the look of the HWT cursive. |
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You know Marilyn, I'm struggling with this exact thing. My oldest daughter learned the traditional cursive and print but has atrocious print and beautiful cursive. Now that she is in 4th grade she does strictly cursive because she likes it better and I can read it better too!
BUT>>> My next daughter started on HWT because she liked the simple lines and has the most beautiful handwriting in print. Now comes the question of cursive...I don't personally like the HWT cursive but will switching over to another more traditional cursive be confusing?
Any ideas or experience with this?
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MarilynW
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Mimip wrote:
MarilynW wrote:
We did start 2 of the boys on HWT - but moved to more traditional cursive as they got older - I do not like the look of the HWT cursive. |
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You know Marilyn, I'm struggling with this exact thing. My oldest daughter learned the traditional cursive and print but has atrocious print and beautiful cursive. Now that she is in 4th grade she does strictly cursive because she likes it better and I can read it better too!
BUT>>> My next daughter started on HWT because she liked the simple lines and has the most beautiful handwriting in print. Now comes the question of cursive...I don't personally like the HWT cursive but will switching over to another more traditional cursive be confusing?
Any ideas or experience with this? |
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Mimi - my boys learned cursive with HWT. When they were in 4th Grade we switched to Seton's traditional cursive books and they had no problems at all. The R is the only thing they struggled with - and I told them just to adapt and do whatever R they wanted.
Now we use Startwrite for all our copywork - and we use the Cursive Simple format which is a little clearer and simpler than the very curly wurly traditional cursive.
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Mimip
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Marilyn,
Thank you so much for the recommendation of Startwrite, WOW!
I used to use edhelper for my handwritng sheets but they changed it all around and now I can't adjust the size of the font 
I'm off to put that on my curriculum list right now.
Oh and if anyone had no idea what Marilyn and I are discussing here is the link Startwrite.
They have a free demo download and that is what sold me!
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Mimi
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Bookswithtea
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Fwiw, I've started everyone here with cursive in HWT, and then when they've graduated from the last cursive book, I move them to other programs. I've never had a problem.
I have a friend who chose Italics instead of standard cursive. Her dd ended up asking for a cursive book much later in junior high because she couldn't read the Christmas cards that came in the mail.  I don't think cursive is something to make a big deal out of, but I guess its at least worth helping the child to be familiar with.
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ALmom
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I have a little different take on handwriting. I agree with the post that legibility, speed and fluidity are most important. I don't think we have to become tyrants about it - or require the version with the most curlicues. I do think it is essential that each child use it on a daily basis on at least something. My aim is that all of mine would prefer it to print. That is my sign that they have actually integrated senses enough to have a smooth cursive (none of those stops and starts stuff). I actually pick more if they stop and start and not be so picky about the individual letter forms, if that makes sense - as long as I can read it and it doesn't hamper fluidity. I have a few that this is a work in progress. Until they are chosing to use cursive, we continue to practice it.
My children who resisted using cursive were also my children who had some crossing the midline issues. I didn't have to be mean and cruel about their handwriting but practicing it and getting the fluidity down, is one way to build those pathways in the brain. I started out simply requiring that they learn it. Then that they use it in one subject - gradually as the midline issues resolved, they would begin to chose it more often for themselves.
Because we started from behind due to vision in some of the finer motor integration, it was frustrating for them, because it was slow and their brain speed was much faster than their mechanical ability to write their ideas down. This impacted handwriting and writing papers. For papers where organizing ideas was the skill I wanted, then, use the computer. For some things, I did want to see them use cursive on a daily basis - maybe not every assignment, but at least one.
I don't nitpick as much on the form of each letter - but I do insist that words are obviously done in one smooth motion. I will have them practice in the air or on a chalkboard, if necessary. I also use the startwrite program so I can print larger size sheets. If you start too small, mine never would develop the fluidity that makes cursive useful.
Janet
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melanie
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I too have been using HWT. It's not a pretty script. But my oldest is dyslexic and was a late writer and wrote with a lot of difficulty for a while. My 9yo is in occupational therapy for motor skill delays that he's had since he came to live with us. And my 5yo is autistic with significant delays and can't even hold a pencil yet, so we will probably be using it with him too. If I ever manage to have a child that can write without great difficulty...  maybe we will get to use a prettier script then.
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Barbara C.
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We are doing handwriting for manuscript this semester, mainly to refine proportion (between upper case and lower case) and spacing.
I do not plan to do an intensive cursive program. I figure that somewhere around fifth or sixth grade we'll go through one cursive workbook to get an idea of the basics and form an official signature. Otherwise, it will be up to each kid to decide if/when/how they want to use it.
We had cursive handwriting for like four years in high school. I was so anal about it that I would take forever and fall several pages behind the rest of the class. The result...my cursive is terrible.
I use a hybrid print/cursive for notes I make to myself. I try to print clearly anything handwritten for others. Everything else is processed on the computer. Other than signing checks or documents I have not needed cursive once in my life since about 6th grade (the last year I remember it's use being required in school).
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Erin
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Mimip wrote:
| My oldest daughter learned the traditional cursive and print but has atrocious print and beautiful cursive. Now that she is in 4th grade she does strictly cursive because she likes it better and I can read it better too! |
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We have the same issue here with my dd16. Absolutely beautiful cursive, appalling print because she is writing too fast.
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4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: Can we talk handwriting?
