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Faith
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| Posted: March 02 2005 at 10:31am | IP Logged
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Well, I was strongly considering using Classical Writing-Aesop and Classical Writing - Homer next year for my 4th and 7th graders. There is much that is appealing and CM about CW. However, it looks like it could get kind of boring after a while and it is very teacher intensive. Plus it is is supposed to take an hour a day yet I am going to need to supplement spelling and perhaps some grammar as well. So now I am thinking of doing Beyond Five in a Row for my 4th grader and trying out the new Lingua Mater from Catholic Heritage Curriculum for my 7th grader.
Decisions, decisions. I think Lingua Mater is new this year. Anyone else considering it? And has anyone used Beyond Five in a Row primarily for the writing exercises?
Thanks
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tovlo4801
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| Posted: March 02 2005 at 1:01pm | IP Logged
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Faith wrote:
Decisions, decisions. I think Lingua Mater is new this year. Anyone else considering it?
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I have Lingua Mater already and I'm excited just looking through it. It is very well laid out. I bought it from Margot earlier this year thinking I would use it for my 11 ds next year. Once she realized my son would be at a 6th grade level she recommended that I wait a year and do it in 7th grade. Instead, I'm planning to use ideas and exercises from The Writer's Jungle as well as focusing on getting more comfortable with narration, dictation and copywork next year. We're new to hs (2 years) and CM (this year), so I think taking the time to work on these methods next year will actually work well for us. It will be good to relax a little bit next year without a super structured program,(I think my son needs me to lighten up a little  ) but I really think that when we take on Lingua Mater in 7th grade it will be a nice combination of structure and gentleness. The lessons are very well organized so there won't be much prep time. The answer key walks you through what to look for in the discussions and writing. (A huge plus for me!!) The material appears to be challenging without being boring or stressful. I really like her choices of literature. Generally seems to be pretty gentle for both mom and dc. I also love how it combines writing, literary analysis, grammar, and art appreciation into one program. I'm also considering beginning it later next year and going through it more slowly over two years. I'll need to tweak it here and there to meet our needs better, I'm sure. Overall I think it's going to guide us through language arts very well. My opinion only comes from having skimmed through the materials and it's a pretty inexperienced opinion  , but I'm excited to give it a try.
God Bless,
Richelle
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: March 02 2005 at 4:44pm | IP Logged
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I've used BFIAR. If it's writing you want, you'd be much better off with The Writer's Jungle Bravewriter
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Faith
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| Posted: March 02 2005 at 7:20pm | IP Logged
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Thanks Richelle and Elizabeth. I have a question about Brave Writer/The Writer's Jungle. It seems to be oriented towards creative writing. The thing I liked about BFIAR were the essay questions and the little science/history prompts. For example, I could see my son really liking the freedom to pick a topic such as an essay question or history topic (like the flags) doing a little research and then writing a paragraph or two about it. He's that kind of kid. So the samples on the FIAR website really appealed to me. Also, my son is a late blooming reader and the books chosen for BFIAR look like a very good fit for him.
So is The Writer's Jungle mostly creative writing?
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: March 02 2005 at 7:36pm | IP Logged
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I'm hoping Julie or Lissa will chime in on Brave Writer. I think that BYFIAR is a good fit for a late-blooming reader, in terms of reading level and interest level. That is, the books appeal to that age level while being on a slightly lower reading level. And I think that the prompts are what you think they are. But it's not a writing program and it won't teach him to write. We used it for a season and my late-blooming reader did enjoy it. I couldn't use it exclusively because I felt like it wasn't enough reading (unless I supplemented the list heavily) and I wouldn't have chosen those particular books to be the spine of my curriculum. My late bloomer is older though (12 this fall when we used BYFIAR). Whatever the age, he needs more readers and more read alouds, imho.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Faith
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| Posted: March 02 2005 at 10:28pm | IP Logged
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Thanks Elizabeth for your prompt response. I think I am of two minds on this teaching writing business. On the one hand CW-Aesop is direct instruction and teaches writing via imitation. BFIAR, on the other hand, appeals because part of me would like something more interest driven. Frankly I don't really think learning to write formally is necessary in 4th grade. I keep vascillating between the two positions. I was really thinking of BFIAR as just a collection of writing prompts. It wouldn't serve as our main history or science. We will be studying the Ancients next year and I have a list of other books I'd like him to read as well as the BFIAR books. I kind of liked the choice of books in BFIAR, because, like you noted, they are on the easy side. I liked that they would give him a break from Ancients and teach a little American history, (plus Homer Price is one of my favorite books!).
I was also imagining having him do first drafts of these short essays and then gently editing with him. I could introduce the idea of topic sentences and conclusions; using adjectives and adverbs, run on sentences and all those sorts of things.
I don't know. I am feeling very muddled and like a bear with little brain.
I think I'll sleep on it.
Thanks.
Faith
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juliecinci
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| Posted: March 03 2005 at 7:27am | IP Logged
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Hi Faith.
Brave Writer isn't a "creative writing program." It's all about writing itself. Every act of writing is creative in the sense that you are creating, generating thoughts and putting them into language. Academic writing is highly creative, if you look at it from that angle.
My resources are meant to facilitate moms who want to help their children become writers of any type.
There are lots of ways to write and some kids prefer factual reporting over flights of fancy. In my experience, most kids would rather write about what they know well than follow a writing prompt that asks them to write about what the alien might do in the school cafeteria.
What the Writer's Jungle does is support you, the homeschooling mother, in helping your child gain skill and confidence in putting those various and assorted thoughts into written language. You can use it on its own or as the tool that helps you execute other writiing "assignments" from any curricula or of your own making. The process involved in writing is basically the same for everyone (though of course it becomes personalized as each of us internalize it).
Hope that helps!
Julie
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Faith
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| Posted: March 03 2005 at 9:00am | IP Logged
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Thanks Julie, I just ordered The Writer's Jungle. I tried to order it last year or the year before and there was some Paypal glitch and it never went through. So now I guess I have just completed the order I started a long time ago.  I love the Flylady spin off for creative writing/CM idea! How clever! I think I may join after I read Writer's Jungle.
I agree about the writing prompts like imagining an alien in the school cafeteria. My son is currently in school and the teacher relates creative/essay writing to the subjects. For example, they were studying about the robot that helped discover the Titantic and she had the kids invent their own robot. My son had a blast writing that one and he did it all on his own. Another time they were studying animal habitats and he wrote a little paper about Giant Squids. He had so much fun writing it. The teacher he has is truly phenomenal. She has such a way of inspiring him! I want to bring him home next year. I just can't handle the long commute back and forth, plus I really miss him! But I am feeling intimidated. This teacher will be a hard act to follow.
So hopefully The Writer's Jungle will help me and I'll stop obsessing on this particular issue and move on to something else to obsess about (Obsessing is my hobby!).
Anyway, thanks very much for your input.
Blessings,
Faith
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tovlo4801
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| Posted: March 03 2005 at 10:04am | IP Logged
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[QUOTE=juliecinci] Hi Faith.
What the Writer's Jungle does is support you, the homeschooling mother, in helping your child gain skill and confidence in putting those various and assorted thoughts into written language. You can use it on its own or as the tool that helps you execute other writiing "assignments" from any curricula or of your own making. The process involved in writing is basically the same for everyone (though of course it becomes personalized as each of us internalize it).
I'm planning on using the Writer's Jungle ultimately to help me execute other writing programs. After going through the beginning of Writer's Jungle I became a little concerned about Lingua Mater and writing. It does give specific writing assignments and I wasn't sure if it would be contradictory to the Bravewriter "philosophy". In looking through the program again, I think that the assignments are very gentle, though. They are specific writing assignments related to whatever is being covered that week, but they walk the child through similar steps to those in the Writer's Jungle. For example in one section the subject for the week is the painting Angel of the Annunciation by Carlo Dolci. The first day of the week walks dc gently through just free-writing their impressions of the painting. Another day has the child re-reading their impressions and then gently challenging them to look at the painting in even more detail and jotting down their further observations. The next day the dc is asked to use a chart to pre-write an observation about the painting. The book walks the dc through each step very slowly using the observations the dc has gathered over the previous few days and giving examples along the way. The final day of the week the writing is reread again and any revisions the dc notes as it is read are done. There is a sharing and describing of the content of the paper that the dc would like to share. I do think that Lingua Mater will complement a Bravewriter philosophy just fine. Even though there are writing prompts it is all very gentle. The dc is very much in control of the content. The writing process is taken very slowly and is very well guided. We'll see when the time comes if ds get's "blocked" by the writing, but I really believe it is so gentle. And as a parent you always have the freedom to do what you want with any assignment if it's not working right?
I also wanted to note that Lingua Mater does seem to go through several different styles of writing. I noted poetry, essays, opinion papers and others in my glance through. Also, my understanding is that Bravewriter is planning on coming out with another program to follow The Writers Jungle that tackles some of the higher level writing expectations like essays. Is that right?
God Bless,
Richelle
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juliecinci
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| Posted: March 03 2005 at 8:34pm | IP Logged
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Richelle, the steps that your Lingua Mater goes through for art narration sound really on target. I especially like the way you noted that you can deviate from their specifications if needed. Still, the gentle process of close inspection and increasingly deep investigation while reflecting on your own writing is a winner in my book.
One of the wonderful things about writing books (written by pros) is that they often give lots of ideas for jump starting the process... again. We all get in ruts. We need ideas that worked for others to help us think or see in a different way again. You should see my book shelves! I have devoted so much space to writing books. It's not because I need to understand the process better, it's because I want to see how this person does it or because I want to be inspired again or especially because I hope they will share that tailor-made way they engage with writing that might be new to me.
No one should feel that they are competing with Brave Writer by using other writing material. On the contrary, my hope is that you will suddenly feel liberated to use all kinds of writing materials because now you understand how to approach the process and can do so confidently and bravely.
Some moms enjoy the Sonlight writing assignments because they tie into the reading. We have done several of their assignments at various points, ourselves. I especially liked SL's writing prompts about six years ago. (I think their LA has become too complicated and detailed today.) But that aside, the spirit of the writing prompts is often really good! So if there is one that makes your kids say, "Hey great writing idea!" Then by all means use it!
There is no competition here. This is about uncorking the language in your kids.
Last thing: The Writer's Jungle has a chapter called "Dumb Assignments." There are curricula that offer one dumb assignment after another. Once you have a grasp of what makes a good writing project, you will be able to sift through all those writing manuals you already own and find some gems (and a lot of dead wood too).
So by all means—use the Writer's Jungle to support you in your writing journey, whatever you use. I set out not to create a curriculum that gave more assignments, but rather one that would unlock the process of writing so that you could actually do some of those writing projects successfully!
And yes, my high school manual is nearly done. I am attacking the last chapters on Saturday. Then it will go to my husband for layout. Then we design the mechanism for payment and delivery. Should all be done by the end of March, enshallah (as God wills, in Arabic - we were missionaries in Morocco ages ago...) 
Julie
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alicegunther
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| Posted: March 03 2005 at 9:51pm | IP Logged
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juliecinci wrote:
No one should feel that they are competing with Brave Writer by using other writing material. On the contrary, my hope is that you will suddenly feel liberated to use all kinds of writing materials because now you understand how to approach the process and can do so confidently and bravely.
Julie |
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You see, now this is why I keep raving about the Writer's Jungle. For the past two years, I have prepared my own "writing curriculum" basing most of our assignments on history and nature study (with a bit of story writing on the side because they love it so). I think I've done a fair job of this, but the Writer's Jungle has brought me to a different level by giving me specific advice, including ideas about what to point out to the children while we are reading. For example, my girls are reading The Hobbit aloud for the third time, but yesterday was the first time it occurred to me to point out some of the incredible alliteration Tolkien uses. Suddenly, words we'd read a million times took on a whole new level of enjoyment, and I have a feeling, judging by their interest, that they may attempt to use alliteration in their own writing. Just today, my nine-year-old was working on a story and informed me, "I'm about to use foreshadowing."
The other thing I like is the advice on how to give an effective and meaningful writing assignment. Admittedly, I've given a few clunkers in my time, but, hopefully, these will, at least for the most part, be a thing of the past.
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Love, Alice
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Cottage Blessings
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4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: Indecision about language arts
