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Sarah M
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I mean, is it really crucial that they write their letters from top to bottom? My 7yo doesn't, and when I gently remind her to start at the top, anarchy ensues.  I figure it doesn't really matter- I remember changing my handwriting half a dozen times in high school, till I "found" one that I liked, so I figure she can always change hers later if writing from top to bottom is faster or whatever- but then... (add self doubt here)
What do you think? How important is it?
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guitarnan
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Well...I changed mine around, too, but writing properly helps insure legibility. My niece, age 7 and in public school, isn't being taught penmanship and she consistently misses spelling words because she writes her "e" and "a" improperly and the teacher can't read them.
Also, when it's time for cursive writing, learning to read it is important - just in case your child ever wants to read old documents...which were hand written.
My kids disliked penmanship - nearly everyone does - but even in this computerized age I think the subject has value.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Lara Sauer
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Yes, it matters, for a whole host of reasons.
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You can take the girl out of Wisconsin, but you can't take the Wisconsin out of the girl!
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LisaR
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I have all lefty's- yes, 5!!! and I have really relaxed about handwriting. We use Getty-Dubay italics, so that they only use one font and connect. however, my oldest ds's handwriting was atrocious until this year (soph in high school) he has FINALLY settled into legibility/neatness.
I wish I had spent WAY more time on keyboarding- because he is in High School now, and 90% of their work is on computer.
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hylabrook1
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Does anybody know why it is important to form letters with strokes that start at the top and end on the line, (as opposed to forming the letter in whatever order or pattern the child prefers, as long as the result is legible)? I am not educated as an educator (  ), and am interested in the reasoning behind this.
Peace,
Nancy
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Sarah M
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hylabrook1 wrote:
Does anybody know why it is important to form letters with strokes that start at the top and end on the line, (as opposed to forming the letter in whatever order or pattern the child prefers, as long as the result is legible)?
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I'm pretty sure it's because it's faster. Over the long term, starting letters at the top is a quicker way to write. But that's what I'm wondering, too- is it really that important that they follow the particular form if their handwriting is neat regardless?
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Sarah M
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| Posted: Feb 11 2009 at 10:42am | IP Logged
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guitarnan wrote:
| My kids disliked penmanship - nearly everyone does - but even in this computerized age I think the subject has value. |
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Lara Sauer wrote:
| Yes, it matters, for a whole host of reasons. |
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Perhaps I should ask my question differently. My 7yo's handwriting is lovely- very pretty and quite legible. I'm more of asking if it's really important that she start her letters from the top (and follow the arrows they present in handwriting books), or if I should just let her form the letters however is most comfortable for her as long as they look nice?
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Sarah M
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One more thing. 
I'm very interested in hearing how unschoolers approach proper letter formation/handwriting.
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jenk
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When my oldest (a lefty) was in school- K and 1st- and had trouble with handwriting (though his was not lovely) the OT said the top to bottom thing was developmental. When I brought him home after 1st grade we worked on top to bottom, he complied but his handwriting was still terrible. Then with cursive (not italic) the letters go from bottom to top and he did better. His manuscript JUST improved this past year (he's 13!!!)and he does write top to bottom now.
I know that's not really advice but if you go with a traditional cursive the letters will be bottom to top and maybe the bottom to top IS developmental.
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Jen
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LisaR
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Oh Sarah! I would not worry a bit then. but then again, that's just me!!
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Lisa
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Barbara C.
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My opinion, for what it's worth, is that as long as it is legible it really shouldn't matter how they get it done.
I am pretty unschooly. My kids usually take their first interest in drawing their letters when they turn three. I've bought Kumon's Uppercase Letters for both. The first time I didn't know how to explain it to her, and had not really dug into the idea of homeschooling yet. My second enjoys doing the workbook, or her "math" as she calls it, while big sister does her math. I am much more relaxed with DD#2 and the workbook (using proper strokes), though, than I was with DD#1.
Otherwise they practice their printing through their creative endeavors. Mine are constantly making pictures, catalogs, magazines, posters, and cards with writing. And I know that as their reading takes off they'll be writing more stories and such.
As for cursive writing, I don't really think it is that important anymore. I figure that when the kids get around junior high age I'll have them go through one cursive workbook just to get the basics and learn how to sign their names. Unless that is something that they ask to learn themselves before then. (A very unschooling approach.)
I just can't see torturing all of us with cursive penmanship practice. Even back when I was in school, the teachers never demanded that we write our assignments in cursive even though we were required to practice it over and over again in workbooks. And with the computer, typing lessons seem much more important, useful, and necessary to prevent injury and strain.
I also can't help wondering if all that practice really improves penmanship or can really make the child so self-conscious that it makes it worse, know what I mean? I used to drive myself and my teachers crazy trying to draw perfect letters for handwriting class and my cursive writing is still terrible. And I think it made me less consistent with my print as well.
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Connections
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Sarah-
I have a similar situation with my ds7. He learned to write on his own and simply did it from bottom to top. I worried on and off. He resisted any attempts I made to "correct" and insisted his way was fine (is your dd also a Dreamer, perhaps?).
I decided not to worry since cursive is bottom to top. (He starting teaching himself cursive, too.)
Just recently, I started showing his younger brother how to properly form letters. I told ds7 he could try from top to bottom or just continue his way. He decided to start writing top to bottom when we work on copywork/spelling. I haven't noticed if it is translating to his free writing. He needed to come to it on his own.
Both ways (bottom to top and top to bottom) are legible and I had a hard time insisting on something that I did not in my heart believe was important.
____________
Blessings,
Tracey
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Sarah M
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Thanks for all your insight, ladies.
Tracey- my 7yo is not a Dreamer, but my 5yo is. I can't even imagine trying to teach a dreamer to write letters from top to bottom!
You know, it never even occured to me that cursive is from bottom to top. Funny. I think that just seals the deal for me- I'm not going to worry about it. I think I'll just insist that it's readable (which it most certainly is) and not worry about how it gets that way.
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mooreboyz
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Sarah,
With my first 3 kids I just let these habits go thinking that as they got older they would correct themselves. They didn't. The oldest started finally writing neatly when he turned 11. My 9 and 7 yr old write just awful unless they are totally focused. A lot of their issues are due to them starting at the bottom because then their o's and a's don't close, for example. If your daughter's writing looks good I don't think I'd be concerned though. I've just learned that it is important to stress correct form from the beginning or it is just too hard for them to change. I'm really hoping that when my other boys turn 11ish their writing will improve as well. It seems like if they are just copying something they can focus solely on their writing and it will be great; but, if they are writing a paragraph about something and so are thinking about the facts they want to write they can't also write neatly. I'm thinking it could be a using dif sides of the brain thing...maybe it takes being older to do both together???
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Mackfam
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I have children who start in different places with handwriting - top to bottom letter formation and bottom to top. I do demonstrate the "appropriate" way to form letters as they are learning, but I'm not the letter gestapo either. If they write neatly I'm happy! I've got enough other battles besides picking one over handwriting.
I'm not really an unschooler, Sarah, but I stopped trying to make handwriting its own subject years ago. It was hated by one and all. Handwriting is just a part of dictations now, or written narrations for my older children. I wish (insert wistful Jane Austen gaze here...) handwriting were still an art form, but it's not really anymore. So much work is done now on the keyboard. So, I dictate a passage and we go over handwriting, spelling, and punctuation all in that one passage. That's how I approach handwriting -- well, all of language arts really (in the younger grades). Then, I really try to encourage their most beautiful penmanship in their nature journals with embellishments and swirlies. Because after all, I believe Jane Austen would have liked a flourish or two in her nature journal.
If your dd isn't opposed to a handwriting workbook, and it's not pulling hair to accomplish it then I think it would be fine to set aside 15 minutes or so a day to polish penmanship in that way. If it is pulling hair or writing workbooks just aren't your style, just let her know that you expect neat, legible work on all handwritten assignments and if it isn't legible you'll be handing the assignment back to her to be redone. It sounds as if her handwriting is lovely though - I'd just let it go then and rejoice that she doesn't have chicken scratch!
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hylabrook1
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I've often thought that when my dc got older (12 or so), they might be interested in calligraphy as an art project or just for fun. That, I think, requires the correct form to be followed or else the variation in stroke width within each letter doesn't work out. No one has ever cared very much to do calligraphy, though. What I'm thinking is that when someone is writing solely for the beauty of the art, they will be more attentive to the eye-brain-hand coordination of handwriting. I think that the distraction or need for speed when writing for the content of something takes over a lot, and then letters are not always produced neatly.
Jennifer - someplace I saw a handwriting program that uses some old-timey form of script, I think Spencerian? I thought that would be fun, to learn to write like the script you see on some old documents.
Peace,
Nancy
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Mackfam
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hylabrook1 wrote:
Jennifer - someplace I saw a handwriting program that uses some old-timey form of script, I think Spencerian? I thought that would be fun, to learn to write like the script you see on some old documents. |
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I have it!  Spencerian Penmanship Course
Of course, I'm the only one that likes it. So, I practice in it!
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Jen Mackintosh
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sewcrazy
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My 9 yo dd loves the Spencerian penmanship!
I do think teaching them how to write properly is important when they are young. I didn't emphasize proper techinque with my 14 yo ds when he was younger, and we have paid for it over the years.
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LeeAnn
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Sarah M
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Thanks, Jennifer. I always love to hear what you think.
Mackfam wrote:
| If your dd isn't opposed to a handwriting workbook, and it's not pulling hair to accomplish it then I think it would be fine to set aside 15 minutes or so a day to polish penmanship in that way. |
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I got one of the new CHC handwriting workbooks because I heard just wonderful things about them- dd hates it. So I think I'll take your advice and just expect her other writing to be done neatly. She writes a lot for fun- lists, stories, cards, notes...
mooreboyz wrote:
| With my first 3 kids I just let these habits go thinking that as they got older they would correct themselves. They didn't. |
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Well, shoot. I do wonder if this would all be no big deal if I had just taken the time to teach her top-to-bottom from the very beginning. Of course, the next child for me to try that on is a dreamer, and....  I don't think it would be received well.
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VeronicaB
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The top to bottom thing was because of the way old dip pens worked. I've got one and the ink just doesn't flow on the upstroke. You need a nice firm downstroke to push the nib open a little and let a little ink flow, then you carry that residual ink on the upstroke to the next downstroke.
Doesn't matter for cartridge pens or probably most modern nibs. Its fun to play with these old 'dip and scratch' pens, but not so practical. My mum remembers these old cheap nibs at the post office.
I'm also having hair-pulling times with handwriting. My eldest is only 7, the others aren't quite writing yet. 7yo has a handwriting book he chose himself, but getting to the end of the page takes an eternity. This year I've got an exercise book that I keep and get out to do just a little copywork. I remember reading that CM said only do as much as comes naturally without the stress. In this case its one word at a time. So Slow!
Anyway, good to keep the bigger picture in mind. I'm still refining my handwriting. Spencerian penmanship looks fun. I just get practice writing shopping lists and todo lists and those rants when the world seems unfair and head all full of shouts - very therapeutic to write it all out.
Veronica
wife of Peter, mother of Patrick (7), Christopher (5), Anthony (4), Bernard (1)
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Topic: How important is handwriting?
