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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: April 16 2007 at 10:48am | IP Logged
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I believe it was Willa who recommended the book Teacher by Sylvia Ashton-Warner. I finally got a copy of it and wanted to share what I was reading on pages 54-55:
"I never teach a child something and then get him to write about it. It would be an imposition in the way that it is in art. A child's writing is his own affair and is an exercise in integration which makes for better work. The more it means to him the more value it is to him. And it means everything to him. It is part of him as an arranged subject could never be. It is not a page of sentences written round set words, resulting in a jumble of disconnected facts as you so often see. It is the unbroken line of thought that we cultivate so carefully in our own writing and conversation. ...
"The whole exercise of creative writing, the reaching back into the mind for something to say, nurtures the organic idea and exercises the inner eye; and it is this calling on the child's own resources that preserves and protracts a little longer his own true personality."
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
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Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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Mary G
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| Posted: April 16 2007 at 11:06am | IP Logged
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Well, Cay, I missed Willa's recommendation of this but will take yours and have requested it from the library -- I like this quote and sounds like I'll like the whole book! THANKS!
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MaryG
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chicken lady
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| Posted: April 16 2007 at 11:29am | IP Logged
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I'm with MAry, I missed this before it sounds great. I think I will order it from the library as well.
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Maryan
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| Posted: April 16 2007 at 11:34am | IP Logged
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Is it okay if I ask a question about your like of this quote? I'm in the learning stages of 4Real Learning...and since my kindergartener is still learning to MAKE letters -- this question is just for future reference.
I agree with when things spring from a child's own thoughts, there's better work, more ownership, etc.
Cay Gibson wrote:
| "I never teach a child something and then get him to write about it..." - Sylvia Ashton-Warner |
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But I'm just curious: do you aim for this ideal in ALL writing assignments or do you never ask your child to write a critique, expose, or argue about a certain topic or do you always let them choose? Is this just for creative writing...??
Just as someone who is learning these ideas, I was wondering if you could fill in the blanks 
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Maryan
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helene
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| Posted: April 16 2007 at 1:50pm | IP Logged
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Yes, I have the same questions as Maryan. Isn't narration ALL ABOUT writing or saying something about what you just read? Would narration, then , be an imposition on the child? I don't get it.
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Mary G
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| Posted: April 16 2007 at 2:33pm | IP Logged
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Maryan and Helene -- I took the quote to be talking about Creative Writing, journaling, etc. Written narrations -- which I won't start with my littles until they're VERY comfortable with writing (which might be as old as 10 or 11) include critiquing or debating the issue to hand. So, we're talking about two differnt types of writing here. Narration could become an imposition if the adult tries to dictate what the child says -- in other words, you need to allow the child to summarize with the facts, points that are important to him/her ....
At least, that's what I took away
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MaryG
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Maryan
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| Posted: April 17 2007 at 7:06am | IP Logged
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Thanks Mary - I can definitely se the creative writing part.
It is so hard to take a quote out of context -- so when she said:
"I never teach a child something and then get him to write about it. It would be an imposition in the way that it is in art. A child's writing is his own affair and is an exercise in integration which makes for better work."
Ultimately, I was being lazy and wanted to check out her ideas first -- to see if I wanted to check out the book!
And thanks for bearing with me -- I was a jhs reading teacher for 9 years, and the classroom and homeschool are two different things!  So I'm always curious interested in "child-led" ways of teaching -- it's hard to do that with 25 kids in a classroom!
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Maryan
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Mary G
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| Posted: April 17 2007 at 8:02am | IP Logged
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Maryan wrote:
| And thanks for bearing with me -- I was a jhs reading teacher for 9 years, and the classroom and homeschool are two different things! So I'm always curious interested in "child-led" ways of teaching -- it's hard to do that with 25 kids in a classroom! |
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I taught K-8 computers for a few years and my dh has taught MS science & religion, HS religion & math, and Undergrad/grad science ... so we sometimes stumble a bit with trying to school at home.
If I go into creative writing or read-alouds as "this isn't school, this is family fun", I seem to lighten up a bit and let the kids take from it what they will -- and because we're home, we can continue the discussions/questions thru meals or in the car or at bedtime or three months later!
Also, remember that creative writing is similar to when your 5 yo brings you a picture that he's drawn -- to him it looks like a knight fighting a dragon or whatever....I think this is where she was going with the child-led writing ... to them the story works. Now, you can guide them as they develop -- to make a better drawing or suggest a better way to write a description or whatever.
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MaryG
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Maryan
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| Posted: April 17 2007 at 8:09am | IP Logged
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Oh Mary - that's so practical! It's funny if I say "school," it does seem like the boys get more "formal" -- if we just do the activities, it seems to flow so well. The teacher part of me sometimes gets in the way!!
I'm glad to hear that you sometimes stumble -- I admire the natural homeschooling atmospheres that you ladies on the board have... and I have to "work" at "natural" (I know oxymoron)!!
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Maryan
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Mary G
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| Posted: April 17 2007 at 7:48pm | IP Logged
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Here's an example of what I THINK Ms. Ashton-Warner was talking about. We've been talking about Moses and the Exodus, etc.
Here's my 7 yod's version:
Quote:
One night, I had a dream that I was in Egypt. Moses came and told me to take God’s people to the Promised Land. Then with my friend Leah, we went across the desert. We met the river and I laid my cloak in the water and then I walked on the water. We heard the Pharaoh. Pharaoh’s men tried to follow us across the water, but they fell into the water and all I could see was Pharaoh, shouting curses at us.
We walked for 10 days and 10 nights. We met Thomas and John-Paulie. Thomas was reading under a tree. John-Paulie was waiting for food. I decided to stop and make a garden. We were in the Promised Land!
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Now, technically, she missed so major points, etc but how could this not be a wonderful narration. BTW, Leah is MaryM's daughter and Thomas and JP are my 8 and 4 yos.
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MaryG
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Maryan
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| Posted: April 18 2007 at 8:03am | IP Logged
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Oh.. Mary! Thanks for the example... you're right: wonderful narration. And I like how she stopped to make a garden in the Promised Land -- now that she was out of the desert!
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Maryan
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4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: Writing
