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Chris V
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Builing Foundations of Scientific Understanding.
Trying to get a feel for it. Do you like it? If so, why?
Are there things you don't like about it?
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Chris
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Claire F
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We have been using BFSU and overall, I really like it. I spent some time with the book before I started using it and mapped out a tentative order for the lessons. The flow chart wasn't as helpful for me (that's just me though), so I made a list of the lessons and noted which were "prerequisites" for others and wound up with a rough order to work from. That was helpful to me, and once I got through that, I found implementing the lessons to be pretty straightforward.
What I like is the philosophy and approach behind it. I like how it presents the basics of scientific concepts in a variety of disciplines - laying a foundation, as the title implies. We've learned about the states of matter, types of energy, crystalization, all kinds of things. I don't recall learning those concepts until much later when I was in school, so it is neat that we can cover these ideas now, providing a nice base for learning in the future.
I find it helpful to spend a bit of time reading over the lesson before we start, so I have some idea of what we're covering. I also rely heavily on the booklists for each lesson, as well as the hands-on activities, so we're approaching the information from a variety of angles. We also found it lended itself well to keeping a simple science notebook. We use a composition book and David will write a sentence or two about what he learned, as well as draw a picture or two and label them. Nothing complicated.
I don't know that I have any real complaints. It isn't exactly an open and go curriculum I guess, in that it does take some prep time for each lesson. But I don't want something scripted necessarily. I like being able to talk about the concept, introduce it, read some books, and do an activity or two, wrapping it up with an entry in his notebook - all this over a number of days, of course.
We did about half the lessons last year and will do the other half this year. We often completed a lesson in a week, but could stretch them over more time as needed.
Just my rambling thoughts - I hope this is helpful! 
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CrunchyMom
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I agree with Claire's assessment. I do like the curriculum a lot, but it does require some planning to use it effectively. There are some other threads here about it. I rely very heavily on the booklists, too.
I think that my biggest challenge is in my perfectionist tendencies and trying to use it with multiple ages. I LOVE how he explains the importance of building foundations--yk, like the TITLE says--but it gets a bit mind boggling when I try to figure out balancing the sequential nature of the lessons with my desire to combine the grade levels without being certain my 1st grader grasped the concepts from the earlier lessons.
I keep trying to explain my confusion further, but I keep on talking in circles. Suffice it to say, it is a wonderful resource because it is so flexible to fit needs, but that flexibility means that, as a curriculum, you are left on your own in figuring out exactly how to use it.
You will need to spend a lot of time with the Introduction, imo, in order to do this.
I also found that the book itself isn't super easy to navigate. I wrote in pencil at the top of each page the lesson (A-1, B-5, C-6, etc...) in order to find the individual lessons more easily. It helps.
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AmandaV
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Chris V wrote:
Builing Foundations of Scientific Understanding.
Trying to get a feel for it. Do you like it? If so, why?
Are there things you don't like about it?
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First, if you want to get a feel for it, and you have an e-reader, you may want to get the ebook (non printable) from the publisher to preview it before you invest. Then join the yahoo group K5science , on which you can view the flow chart and print it, as well as other user-shared files with the booklists by lesson, alternative order charts, and supply lists. A friend of mine who is starting with her 6 year old this year uses hers completely from the Kindle. But she is a total minimalist. I wanted to hold it in my hand. :)
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Amanda
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AmandaV
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CrunchyMom wrote:
I think that my biggest challenge is in my perfectionist tendencies and trying to use it with multiple ages. I LOVE how he explains the importance of building foundations--yk, like the TITLE says--but it gets a bit mind boggling when I try to figure out balancing the sequential nature of the lessons with my desire to combine the grade levels without being certain my 1st grader grasped the concepts from the earlier lessons.
I keep trying to explain my confusion further, but I keep on talking in circles. Suffice it to say, it is a wonderful resource because it is so flexible to fit needs, but that flexibility means that, as a curriculum, you are left on your own in figuring out exactly how to use it. |
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Yes, this. I think you exlained it well, Lindsay. I love it but my kids are on such different understanding levels. For instance my son has been reading science books on his own with very high levels of understanding/narration since summer before 2nd grade, so his scientific knowledge/background is way above my daughters. She's bright but not doing so much reading on her own. She is advanced but still mostly reads stories to herself. So when we do a lesson together, she is swamped by him unless I make him not talk. At all. But to have them each on their own timetable is also daunting. I've thought about combining her with my 4 yr old twins and speeding my son through. Combine that with having had a baby last summer and never quite adjusting to life with twin boys (4 years should be enough, right?) and I haven't done enough of it with them at all. So for this year I bought Behold and See 3 as a back up. I'm not giving up on BFSU, but I do think it is something you have to spend some time with and prep. My friend has a box that she keeps all the supplies for upcoming lessons in. I'm hoping to do this as well. Put about 6 weeks of the supplies in a big tub along with lessons and any foldables or booklet supplies we plan to make plus their notebooks and my lessons. Hope that helps!
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Amanda
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Chris V
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Thank you all, for your input. When I didn't get any responses I began reading through a variety of reviews online. This one here was the one that made me slap my head and say, exactly! ... This program is not for me. Not right now, maybe not ever. I have to be so very realistic with my expectations this year - no dreaming in la la land about my ideal homeschooling environment, but REAL. With infant twins... life is intense, this program would not work well for me. 
I have a shelf lined with living science books. So we'll be wingin' it this year  ... phew! Already feeling less stress! 
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Betsy
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Chris V wrote:
Thank you all, for your input. When I didn't get any responses I began reading through a variety of reviews online. This one here was the one that made me slap my head and say, exactly! ... This program is not for me. Not right now, maybe not ever. I have to be so very realistic with my expectations this year - no dreaming in la la land about my ideal homeschooling environment, but REAL. With infant twins... life is intense, this program would not work well for me.
I have a shelf lined with living science books. So we'll be wingin' it this year ... phew! Already feeling less stress! |
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Chris it's good to be honest and real! 
I don't have half as much on my plate as you AND I have used this program for two of my children before...and I am not tackling it with my year 2 student this year for the same reasons. Truly I do like it, but it's freeing to be realistic with what I am really going to get done.
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CrunchyMom
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Chris V wrote:
Thank you all, for your input. When I didn't get any responses I began reading through a variety of reviews online. This one here was the one that made me slap my head and say, exactly! ... This program is not for me. Not right now, maybe not ever. I have to be so very realistic with my expectations this year - no dreaming in la la land about my ideal homeschooling environment, but REAL. With infant twins... life is intense, this program would not work well for me.
I have a shelf lined with living science books. So we'll be wingin' it this year ... phew! Already feeling less stress! |
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Hmmm, I do think that review is a bit harsh.
Indeed, it might not be the curriculum for you this year with little ones!
But, I'm not sure what the reviewer expected. It is a collection of lesson plans, not a text.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Chris V
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CrunchyMom wrote:
Hmmm, I do think that review is a bit harsh.
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It was, wasn't it?! You're probably right. But it drove the point home for me. I was feeling wishy-washy and trying to psyche myself up for it... which I often do. But my dreams and my reality are rarely the same when it comes to how our days unfold.
Less is best for me this year
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Chris V
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Betsy wrote:
Chris it's good to be honest and real!
I don't have half as much on my plate as you AND I have used this program for two of my children before...and I am not tackling it with my year 2 student this year for the same reasons. Truly I do like it, but it's freeing to be realistic with what I am really going to get done. |
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What a blessing having twins has been! - and not just because they are our children, but because it has really helped to change my perspective and attitude with my daily management. It truly is liberating to know your own limitations; certainly not in a bad way, but rather to embrace them for a better sense of who you are.
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Chris
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AmandaV
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CrunchyMom wrote:
Chris V wrote:
Thank you all, for your input. When I didn't get any responses I began reading through a variety of reviews online. This one here was the one that made me slap my head and say, exactly! ... This program is not for me. Not right now, maybe not ever. I have to be so very realistic with my expectations this year - no dreaming in la la land about my ideal homeschooling environment, but REAL. With infant twins... life is intense, this program would not work well for me.
I have a shelf lined with living science books. So we'll be wingin' it this year ... phew! Already feeling less stress! |
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Hmmm, I do think that review is a bit harsh.
Indeed, it might not be the curriculum for you this year with little ones!
But, I'm not sure what the reviewer expected. It is a collection of lesson plans, not a text. |
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Very harsh. I don't think she gave it a chance, except she did continue. The discussions are the most important part! Its like she thought it would be a kit or a work text.
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Amanda
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kristacecilia
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As a scientist, I really like the book. I like the material he covers and I like the way he explains things.
As a busy, inherently-lazy mom who loves self-directed programs, I hate it. I hate that I have to remember to read it ahead of time. I hate that I need to gather materials. I hate that I need to put books on hold and- in general- be organized about it. I don't like 'teaching' it to the kids. I like reading to my kids.
In other words, all my problems with it are me-problems. So I can fix that pretty quick.
I am going to stick with it because the program is science par excellence, IMNSHO. I even bought the second book already, but I am hoping I can figure out how to make it more self-directed for my boys.
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Krista
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AmandaV
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kristacecilia wrote:
As a scientist, I really like the book. I like the material he covers and I like the way he explains things.
As a busy, inherently-lazy mom who loves self-directed programs, I hate it. I hate that I have to remember to read it ahead of time. I hate that I need to gather materials. I hate that I need to put books on hold and- in general- be organized about it. I don't like 'teaching' it to the kids. I like reading to my kids.
In other words, all my problems with it are me-problems. So I can fix that pretty quick.
I am going to stick with it because the program is science par excellence, IMNSHO. I even bought the second book already, but I am hoping I can figure out how to make it more self-directed for my boys. |
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Yes. Yes. Exactly. Except the part about fixing the me-problems quickly. That seems to take a while around here.
If you figure out a way to make it more self-directed, let us know :)
I have read about some who use it to frame their living book reading, but I really like the discovery aspect.
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Amanda
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Betsy
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Krista,
I agree with your post whole heartily! I *think* that this program is ideal for a class room where there are more people for discussion. One-on-one is a littler harder for this.
Like I said above---I do like this program and approach--- but with a house full of kids is hard to add another mother intensive program in.
However, my younger kids did really enjoy all of the books from the library. So, even if you didn't do that program but could get a hold of the book list I would recommend that.
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Chris V
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Betsy wrote:
So, even if you didn't do that program but could get a hold of the book list I would recommend that.
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That is really a great idea!
I found this: BFSU K-2 Booklist
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Chris
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CrunchyMom
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Wow, that is really neat how that library system allows you to make lists public. I spent an hour or more yesterday creating lists for the books in my own library system.
kristacecilia wrote:
As a scientist, I really like the book. I like the material he covers and I like the way he explains things.
As a busy, inherently-lazy mom who loves self-directed programs, I hate it. I hate that I have to remember to read it ahead of time. I hate that I need to gather materials. I hate that I need to put books on hold and- in general- be organized about it. I don't like 'teaching' it to the kids. I like reading to my kids.
In other words, all my problems with it are me-problems. So I can fix that pretty quick.
I am going to stick with it because the program is science par excellence, IMNSHO. I even bought the second book already, but I am hoping I can figure out how to make it more self-directed for my boys. |
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Honestly, the books he recommends are so good, they discuss most of the points he brings up as possible discussions. I do think that while I could just own all the books at random to read, I like having them categorized into their "building blocks" even when some of the books overlap. It makes the whole idea of what to cover *next* less overwhelming for me, offering some direction.
I do wish that there were more modern books that were written in the living *chapter book* style of the older science books (like Arabella Buckley's books, for instance). Those older books lend themselves so well to self-directed learning (assigned reading and narration).
I CAN just assign these books as reading and narrations, but there's just so MANY of them to juggle, even a new book every day or two, and like you said, it is a huge hassle to organize library requests for them all to arrive at the right time, especially since many of them (naturally) overlap.
One concept that worked somewhat last year was having a science basket where I kept the things we were studying, and one of my son's assignments was to set a timer and read from the basket.
I wonder if having the mini notebooks like Sally describes in this thread for history would be a good way to use Nebel's idea of making a little book (something I haven't done) in a way that is more independent and self-directed, especially for the hard sciences that don't lend themselves as well to inclusion in a nature journal.
On one hand, I like the flexibility of his program, but if his lesson plans came in the form of something like these programs, complete with the living books, I think I would find the money.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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kristacecilia
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Truly, I do love the books he recommends. Unfortunately my library has NONE of them. It's a very small library system. I try to get whatever our library has on the subject at hand, but they are NOT living books. I have purchased some of the ones he recommends but I don't want to have to purchase all of them, even though they are great recommendations!
As for quickly solving the me-problems... I CAN do it... that doesn't mean I will. LOL.
I do want to make it through the whole book. I really do. It sits on the shelf next to me all.the.time. I look at it. I give myself a mental face-palm for not doing the readings. When we actually do it the kids really enjoy it and I resolve to be more dedicated about completing it.
At this rate, though, it's going to take me four years to get through the first book. By then my girls will be older and it will be time to start again!
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Krista
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Chris V
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CrunchyMom wrote:
Honestly, the books he recommends are so good, they discuss most of the points he brings up as possible discussions. I do think that while I could just own all the books at random to read, I like having them categorized into their "building blocks" even when some of the books overlap. It makes the whole idea of what to cover *next* less overwhelming for me, offering some direction. |
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Re the booklist that I linked, is that the sequence that BSFU follows, those books in that order?
CrunchyMom wrote:
I do wish that there were more modern books that were written in the living *chapter book* style of the older science books (like Arabella Buckley's books, for instance). Those older books lend themselves so well to self-directed learning (assigned reading and narration).
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I'm not familiar at all with Arabella Buckley's books, but they sound nearly ideal (sans illustrations though, right?). My girls are pictures gals. Love to look at the pictures - though with time and maturity, no doubt this will shift to more chapter-style literature.
CrunchyMom wrote:
I CAN just assign these books as reading and narrations, but there's just so MANY of them to juggle, even a new book every day or two, and like you said, it is a huge hassle to organize library requests for them all to arrive at the right time, especially since many of them (naturally) overlap.
One concept that worked somewhat last year was having a science basket where I kept the things we were studying, and one of my son's assignments was to set a timer and read from the basket.
I wonder if having the mini notebooks like Sally describes in this thread for history would be a good way to use Nebel's idea of making a little book (something I haven't done) in a way that is more independent and self-directed, especially for the hard sciences that don't lend themselves as well to inclusion in a nature journal.
On one hand, I like the flexibility of his program, but if his lesson plans came in the form of something like these programs, complete with the living books, I think I would find the money. |
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I love the idea of Sally's notebooks, especially for their own sakes. To have that at the end of the year, to look back on - it's a piece of their own work, a sense of accomplishment, and foster a greater understanding of the materials they've read. Wonderful! But I think (with my girls, and given their ages), this would turn into a Aw, really? Do I have to? And that is exactly the atmosphere that I work so hard to avoid (in all areas of learning, not just science).
I'm a strewer. Particularly with a subject such as science. My oldest has read and re-read dozen upon dozens of books on a variety of subjects. I'm impressed with her knowledge and understanding (I'm hoping the same for her younger siblings... but that's another thread). However, what initially got me interested in BFSU was the idea that (however wonderful it is that she has a good understanding of subject such as geology, biology, human anatomy), - could I be missing something? A foundation. Sequentially I'm less concerned ... does science even have a sequence? But there are building blocks to scientific understanding that could (assuming here with her understanding) help to avoid a patchwork-quilt type thoughts about science.
At 7 years old (to be 8 in November), I am absolutely happy with where she's at. She has a natural curiosity that I capitalize on with my Amazon Prime account , perhaps to my husbands chagrin 
But maybe there is really much to consider that I haven't - such as what can BFSU provide us (and really, it is *all* of us), in terms of making all the pieces come together (... big assumption here - assuming that the pieces for her are not put together, and not something that she could articulate anyway, we just see a bigger picture than our children do). Does that make sense?
Anyway, so my plan will be no plan . Lots of books. Strewn about the house, on the foors, in the bathrooms, under the kitchen table ...  . that has served us all well thus far. Then perhaps next year, we may kick it up a notch. ... or not (says the unschooler at heart).
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CrunchyMom
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Chris V wrote:
CrunchyMom wrote:
Honestly, the books he recommends are so good, they discuss most of the points he brings up as possible discussions. I do think that while I could just own all the books at random to read, I like having them categorized into their "building blocks" even when some of the books overlap. It makes the whole idea of what to cover *next* less overwhelming for me, offering some direction. |
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Re the booklist that I linked, is that the sequence that BSFU follows, those books in that order?
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Ah, well, no. And one thing that makes his approach unique is acknowledging that some knowledge is best acquired sequentially, as in math, but still allowing for a good bit of flexibility. There are about 40 distinct lessons in the book with about a dozen books suggest for each one (with overlap).
There are the four threads- A--Nature of Matter
- B--Life Science
- C--Physical Science
- D--Earth and Space Science
He has flow charts that show the possible sequences within those categories and occasionally overlapping between the categories.
The various threads can be done in tandem, and the individual lesson plans list the other lessons that the particular lesson you are studying assumes you have studied.
The program certain leaves a lot of room for "pauses" and forays in to more delight lead learning while still providing a framework you can use to guard against gaps of understanding.
For instance, Lesson D-4 is "Land Forma and Major Biomes of the Earth."
Now, you could just cover this in a basic sense as a normal week's lesson, the concept of biomes in general.
OR, you could spend an entire semester strewing books and spending time studying all the major biomes of the Earth in depth.
I do not really use this program as intended, and I rely on strewing a lot. BUT, I like strewing the books from the same lesson at the same time and I use his flow charts to determine what science books I will look into getting according to what we've covered.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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AmandaV
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Chris, since you are semi-interested, you may want to join the list off-mail. That way you have access to the files and can view the flow chart as well as some member-uploaded files. For example, there are lessons by a member, Marilyn, where she sort of "shrunk" Nebel's lesson descriptions and discussions into an outline form with all the pertinent questions, and follow up activiities. You still would want to review his chapter but then her lessons make it more open and go. Anyhow, even if you aren't interested in it anymore at this point you could still review the threads and get a better idea of what Lindsay is describing. There is also a shared pinterest board that was recently started with links to activities related to many lessons. There is a BFSU main board, and a board for each thread A, B, C, and D. I haven't been on pinterest much lately so I'm not sure how big it is but I am a contributor to it.
Well, I was about to link but I already did I'm just going to quote myself from this thread if you don't mind: :)
AmandaV wrote:
Hi ladies! Bumping this - not sure how many of you still use BFSU, but there are now some unofficial BFSU pinboards on Pinterest, created by a member of the yahoo group for BFSU. Here's the main one: BFSU general resources board
There isn't much on that board but there are also boards for each strand:
BFSU thread A resources
BFSU thread B resources
BFSU thread C resources
BFSU thread D resources
She has, so far, pinned various booklets, foldables, experiments and extensions that could go with several lessons. If you comment on a pin she'll add you as a collaborator. I think this could be a great tool to make use of BFSU even more exciting, and useful! |
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So, it looks like quite a bit has been added. This should be helpful, if just for finding activities.
One link that looked promising is this post, in which there are downloads for narration prompt sheets related to each of 12 lessons.
This post has the lessons I mentioned earlier, but she added more plans.
BFSU Lesson plans
Hopefully some of this helps. :)
__________________
Amanda
wife since 6/03, Mom to son 7/04, daughter 2/06, twin sons 6/08 and son 7/11, son 1/2014
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4Real Forums : Exploring God's Creation in Nature and Science
Topic: BFSU
