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Angel
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| Posted: May 20 2010 at 6:26pm | IP Logged
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The Beefing Up Our Science Study thread has reminded me that I'm still pulling a sort of science survey course together for my 13 yo son. I'm using Science Matters and A Short History of Nearly Everything as a spine for the course, which I have discovered can be called "Integrated Science" (ahem.)
Anyway, I like the books and it will not be too hard to coordinate them. But I am having trouble deciding what sort of hands-on work to require. We're starting with physics, and I want to provide the same sorts of experiments that a student might get in a high school level physical science or conceptual physics course. (In other words not so heavy on the math). I'll also at some point want to do some basic chemistry, too.
(This lab thread is really a partner to another thread I began a while back, High School Science Without a Textbook.)
As I sift through lab manuals and kits designed for specific curricula, I find myself getting a little... overwhelmed. I'm not sure I really know where to start, or how to pick something that is "high school level".
I bought this physics lab manual, which is a lot BIGGER than I expected (gosh, the box was huge), but also it assumes that I (the teacher) know a lot more of the math behind the experiments than I can actually remember.  (I'm not bad at math or math-phobic, but the last time I did any of this stuff was my senior year in high school!) It is not exactly what I need.
Of course, I am not exactly sure *what* I need at this point, which is the problem.
Any tips here before I spend and waste a lot of money trying to figure this out? Resources to recommend which will help me narrow down what sort of equipment I will need or what sorts of kits to look at? Recommendations on upper level physical science kits?
I'm much more comfortable figuring out upper level astronomy, geology, atmospheric science, biology, etc. Physics and chemistry.... not so much.
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Angela
Mom to 9, 7 boys and 2 girls
Three Plus Two
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: May 20 2010 at 8:40pm | IP Logged
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Hmmm. That's too bad about the lab manual because from the description it sounds really good.
Is there any way you can weed through the manual and pick out perhaps one lab from each of the eight topic areas that are doable without so much math?
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Theresa
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Angel
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| Posted: May 21 2010 at 7:54am | IP Logged
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lapazfarm wrote:
Hmmm. That's too bad about the lab manual because from the description it sounds really good.
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Well, it's very comprehensive!!  (Nearly 700 pages of comprehensive, to be exact.) I'm sure I could probably dig an array of experiments out of it... but I think it would be more helpful to a more advanced physics course. It certainly isn't anything my ds could use on his own, even as reference. (It's not really written for students in any case.)
Anyway, it's a little more work than I was hoping for. With all the "stuff" going on in our lives in the coming months, I won't really have time to write my own lab manual (which is what I'd have to do with this book: choose some experiments, figure out the materials needed, translate the principles so that they contained *some* math, but no trig, and then write them up so my ds would have something to follow himself.)
Last night I remembered that I had Rebecca Rupp's Complete Home Learning Source Bookon my shelf, only with all the beginnings of preparing to move, it had kind of gotten shoved to the back corner of a shelf blocked by a cart. She has some good ideas for physics resources in there. Reading her intro to the physics section, I also realized why I might be feeling overwhelmed... physics is a "many-headed discipline".
I'm still wondering abut kits, though. I don't want to overbuy, but would we be better served by buying a general kit like Home Science Tools' general physics kit (my computer is not letting me open their website for some reason, so I'll have to come back and add links) or the "Physics Pro Deluxe" kit, which is more about building projects that exhibit physics principles than doing experiments. (It's also more expensive.)
Then there are the Castle Heights guides and kits: Pathways in Science, with its attendant kit sold by Home Science Tools... or a more intensive high school level Experiences in Physics Lab Manual, with more math and a more expensive kit. (With this option, I think we would just pick and choose and save the rest for later.) These appeal to me because they are very simply laid out and they have kits already put together. But probably not as much fun as some of the books Rebecca Rupp lists... I'll post some of those, too, but right now I had better get going so some of our extra Friday chores get done. 
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Angela
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Three Plus Two
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Mackfam
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| Posted: May 21 2010 at 12:05pm | IP Logged
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Angel wrote:
| Then there are the Castle Heights guides and kits: Pathways in Science, with its attendant kit sold by Home Science Tools... |
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I ended up with this book and the accompanying kit from Home Science Tools for my 9th grader, Angela. In talking together, she really wanted a general science with labs, which is what this program is. They're nice. It's a good fit for her, but might not be enough of a challenge for some 9th graders approaching physical science. I'm beefing up many of the sections with a lot of living science reading which is very do-able, but my dd took a look at the book and really liked it (which surprised me).
The book itself is very hands-on, encouraging experiments, activities, and exploration. It offers guidance in record-keeping charts, procedures, charts for recording observations, assistance in writing conclusions, etc. The content is good, and probably more accurately geared towards middle school age (which the site does recommend). However, we were looking for good general grounding in vocabulary with labs so it's a good fit for us. Knowing what I know about your son, I would be concerned that it would seem elementary to him, Angela.
Now...the kit that is available to accompany the course for the labs...is NOT complete. It does contain many items needed, and especially the less common ones, but it does require supplementation with "common household items". They clearly state this, but I was surprised just *how many* labs and activities are in this book - MANY! (which is great!) But, I like having a comprehensive list of what I'm going to need to supply and when. In flipping through the book, and being a little bit obsessive about liking things well-laid out, I will say that there is A LOT you're going to have to supply for completion of the labs/activies/experiments! It's nothing that can't be dealt with - and I shall with a handy-dandy excel spreadsheet I'm about to create!!!! But, you should know that you'll still have to supplement this kit, Angela! It doesn't have every.single.thing.needed in the box.
Hope this helps you in your decision making process, Angela. IF....you decide to go with this book/kit...I'll be happy to share my ridiculously obsessive excel spreadsheet with a COMPREHENSIVE listing of materials needed for Pathways in Science cross-referenced with pages and lessons and noting what is supplied in the kit...and what isn't!
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Jen Mackintosh
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Mackfam
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| Posted: May 21 2010 at 12:15pm | IP Logged
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I wanted to come back and clarify...(I'm kicking myself for not proofing!)...the missing materials are easy to obtain and supplement. For example, there is an activity on change of state requiring a chocolate bar and aluminum foil. No problem - I have aluminum foil around...but I don't keep chocolate bars in the house (I know...that seems sacrilegious to admit!! ). It's not a big deal to grab one, but I want a list showing me what activity is upcoming, and what I'm going to need to supply for those activities...how many chocolate bars, sugar cubes, and steel wool pads, etc. I need to have ready! Since this isn't available in the book or with the lab kit, I'll make it myself.
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Jen Mackintosh
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: May 21 2010 at 1:33pm | IP Logged
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Ok, here are my suggestions:
Since you are using the Bill Bryson book, which is a history of science, this kit would be a natural tie in and a great introductory kit:
Thames and Cosmos Milestones in Science kit
I have found all Thames and Kosmos kits to be excellent, challenging and with thorough explanations for all concepts.
Then you might want to move on to this one:
Thames and Kosmos Physics Pro
Both of these kits are aimed at the right age group for your son and I think would need very little input from you, yet still be very meaty.
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Theresa
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Donna Marie
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| Posted: May 21 2010 at 1:44pm | IP Logged
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thank you for sharing, everyone...i have been wrestling with some of the same things you are talking about...I am loving the conversation!
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Donna Marie from NJ
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Angel
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| Posted: May 21 2010 at 3:47pm | IP Logged
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Thank you, Jen and Theresa!
Theresa, that Physics Pro kit was one of the ones I was looking at over at Home Science Tools... except that it's cheaper on Amazon. I didn't know there was a "history of science" kit, though, which does fit nicely. I was completely focused on dividing the course up into chunks instead of thinking there might be a kit out there to cover the course as a whole. I have to admit, both kits look like more fun than the standard Physics Introduction Kit, which is one of those on Home Science Tools I wasn't able to link to this morning.
Of course, I let my son look at Rebecca Rupp's book, and now he is all set to read *The Physics of Star Trek*. Anyway...
Like you, Jen, I also need to be able to tell what we need before we get there or it will take me forever to do the experiment... which is why I like basically *everything* in the box up front, or "common household items" to really be in my house at all times. (I would have a problem with chocolate bars, too... mostly because I'm afraid someone -- not saying who -- would probably eat them before we could use them.)
Does it seem to y'all like a lot of the standard "high school kits" that go along with curriculum are somewhat... well... sterile? Like actual brick-and-mortar high school labs? If I'm going with a non-textbook type course, I wonder if the labs shouldn't have more zing to them, too.
Then again, there is a lot of value in the basics.
So, yet another problem to wrestle with here at the beginning of the teen years...
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Angela
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mooreboyz
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| Posted: May 22 2010 at 9:13am | IP Logged
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Angela,
I, like you, have an easy time with most natural science but have a little trouble with physics and so this year knowing my guys were lacking in this area a bit I ordered this noeo physics II packaged curriculum. I've always created my own science material in the past, but this gave me a nice package for my older 3 (8, 10, and 12) at a time when life was (is) very busy. I understand that some of this would be too basic for your son, but from it I recommend the books on Archimedes and Galileo...these are great and further study of them would be good as well. I liked the Usborne books as well as each page gives internet links to cool things to check out. These alone might give a nice path to follow when developing an independent course. We also did some things from Backyard Ballistics...this book explains the science involved so it is fun and educational. We are working through powerhouse as well which is a nice addition and has lots of projects.
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Jackie
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ALmom
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| Posted: May 22 2010 at 2:44pm | IP Logged
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A few ideas here from a science phobic person - don't kick yourself for the lab manual you have. If you are uncertain about being able to help with it and don't want to assign it, you still have the explanations in the book and manual, keep it around for a while and see how much said child does just from picking it up and messing around with it. I have a 13 year old, who has gone through quite a bit of stuff, I would not have been able to help him with and which I never thought he'd touch. He has managed to do experiments that had improper or unclear instructions - figured them out. When motivated, he digs even across disciplines to figure out what he wants to know to enable him to do what he thought would be neat to do. Of course, if you are sure the child will not touch it, then don't hang onto it and not get your money back - but if you can leave it around for awhile without financial loss, it might be worth seeing if you are surprised.
Just have a variety of material that child can use for reference. If they are really interested, you may be surprised at how much they manage to pick up doing their own sleuthing. (Of course, not being assigned, they aren't under any stress or deadlines about it so they have the time and one of mine takes this kind of thing like a fun challenge.)
I don't know if Homescience Tools would be a good source or not. They have many experiments listed for 3rd - highschool. The good thing about those is that you can take them as far as you want or are able to, the background info is there for the 3rd grader (which any 13 year old can follow on their own) and they then can expand more and more into it. Do the things that provide more open ended exploration. Look at the table of contents or general concepts in your book(s) and pick a few things that aren't in what you already have or what Jenn recommended that goes along with whatever you need a bit more for. Look at a catelogue, they usually picture or describe what is in it, so you have a better idea. They also list target age ranges for the items.
Chemistry is the hardest for us - safety is an issue with open ended exploration here, but we do have Chem 1000 kit which is decent. (Our son did a lot of open ended stuff in chemistry before we realized what he was doing and we had to stifle a bit with lots of rules for safety).
Also to expedite experiments for which there aren't equipment lists, plan on the child spending one day a week (or whatever seems reasonable to you), perusing experiments they plan to do and then have a system where your child makes up a list of supplies needed for anything the child happens to be interested in doing which is that said child's responsibility to attach to the grocery list. This little thing worked wonders in our house - if it was on the list, we got it in time. The child who made the list was not my most organized child, but the motivation to science was enough that it got done, and taught some planning and organization in the process.
Janet
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Topic: on your own high school science labs
