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Mary G
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| Posted: Jan 30 2006 at 11:38am | IP Logged
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Hey y'all!
I got a note from my SIL asking if I knew anything about the following. Any comments or has anyone seen this guy's work?
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The show, due to arrive March 10 at the Denver Museum, is called "Body Worlds 2:
The Anatomical Exhibition of Real Human Bodies." It is a
display of "real, donated preserved human bodies to
thoughtfully illustrate what makes people uniquely human."
The creator of the corpse show, Gunther von Hagens,
considers himself an artist of the human body. His displays
are skinned human bodies which have been "plastinated" a
process he developed which basically turns human cells into
plastic. The genitals and eyes are intact. The bodies are
posed doing things like skate boarding, playing chess,
fencing and riding a horse. There is even a pregnant woman
whose 8 month old fetus is visible in her cut open womb. (I
read the baby still has skin). Another display is called
"Angel" and it is a man with his skin flayed out to resemble
angel wings. Von Hagens even signs his "artwork."
In Europe his venues were art museums. In the U.S. he has
wisely marketed his mult-million dollar show to science
museums catering to education children about the human body.
When we were living in England, in 2002, von Hagens
performed a public autopsy in a London theater, which was
attended by a live audience and televised, despite threats
of criminal punishment.
I've emailed the Archbishop about this. I've left messages
for the Respect-Life person at the archdiocese (the one who
once called me "judgemental"). I've called several people I
thought could share my indignation. I'm writing my
congressman and senators. So far, I've encountered silence.
I'm hoping that means the Archbishop is studying the matter.
I'm at a loss. How could our society have degenerated so
quickly?
Any thoughts would be appreciated. I admit to wondering if
I'm getting upset over nothing, since I've been able to find
no Catholic response to these shows. They have played in LA,
Chicago, Philadelphia and Cleveland as well as all over the
world. Supposedly millions of people have viewed them and
have been overwhelmingly positive in their reactions. I'm
stunned.
Here's the website for Body Worlds:
http://www.bodyworlds.com/en/pages/gunther_von_hagens.asp
Here's the DMNS website about the upcoming exhibit.
http://www.dmns.org/main/en/General/Exhibitions/UpcomingExhi bitions/bodyWorlds.htm
Oh, and the brochure we "members" got from the DMNS says
they consulted various community leaders including the
Archdiocese of Denver.
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Id be interested in any comments I can pass on to SIL -- this has got her pretty upset!
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MaryG
3 boys (22, 12, 8)2 girls (20, 11)
my website that combines my schooling, hand-knits work, writing and everything else in one spot!
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teachingmom
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| Posted: Jan 30 2006 at 4:05pm | IP Logged
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All I can say is I am with you, Mary. It sounds utterly disgusting and disrespectful of the dead.
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~Irene (Mom to 6 girls, ages 7-19)
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Mary G
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| Posted: Jan 30 2006 at 5:24pm | IP Logged
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Exactly -- where's the dignity of the human person? I just know that those who say this is "art" would be incensed if a "scientist/artist" did this same procedure with animals -- can you imagine the outcry if that was a seal mom with a seal pup in it's belly?
But where is the outcry from the pro-life community or the Cahtolic community? I think that's what's got my SIL buffaloed -- no one seems to have commented adversely on this .....talk about desensitized!
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MaryG
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Kelly
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Mary,
The word "grotesque" springs to mind..!
Kelly in FL
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momwise
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| Posted: Jan 30 2006 at 9:52pm | IP Logged
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Mary,
We were still trying to figure out if these were real human bodies or copies when I saw your post. We're pretty confused around here as to what the Church allows in the name of science (obviously biology and pre-med students observe and participate in autopsies) and what the guidelines are for donating one's body to science.
I also wasn't aware that this guy markets his demos as art displays in other countries. I'd like to know what SIL hears back from the archbishop.
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Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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Mary G
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| Posted: Jan 31 2006 at 5:29am | IP Logged
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momwise wrote:
Mary,
We were still trying to figure out if these were real human bodies or copies when I saw your post. We're pretty confused around here as to what the Church allows in the name of science (obviously biology and pre-med students observe and participate in autopsies) and what the guidelines are for donating one's body to science.
I also wasn't aware that this guy markets his demos as art displays in other countries. I'd like to know what SIL hears back from the archbishop. |
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Gwen,
These are definitely real human bodies that are being used -- right down to a real pregnant woman with her fetus intact and exposed for all to see. This is NOT science and seems completely inappropriate....
I'll post if SIL hears from Archbishop Chaput -- I can't imagine he would allow this to go unmentioned. Debbie's comment that she can't find ANY pro-life or Catholic response to this guy's work is pretty scary.....
Did anyone in other big cities hear anything about this or have it in their city?
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MaryG
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Mary G
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| Posted: Feb 27 2006 at 6:37pm | IP Logged
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Hey y'all -- here's an editorial my SIL wrote in the "Rocky Mountain News":
Speakout: Museum show raises ethical concerns
By Debbie Nowak
February 27, 2006
You can find necrophilia and necrophobia right next to each other in the dictionary. The first means "an erotic attraction to corpses" and the second means quite the opposite - "an abnormal fear of dead bodies." So, what do most people have, an attraction to or an abnormal fear of dead bodies?
The Denver Museum of Nature and Science probably hopes most folks in Denver are of the "philia" persuasion when they host the internationally infamous Body Worlds 2: The Anatomical Exhibition of Real Human Bodies this spring.
The man behind the exhibit, Gunther von Hagens, has received scorn and praise for his revolutionary exhibits of real human bodies, skin removed, eyes intact, eyelashes and genitals on display, eternally preserved in his patented "plastination" process.
He claims it's all in the name of science, yet in Europe von Hagens exhibited his "plastinates," which have names like "Thinker" and "Skateboarder," in art museums. Now that he's in the land of the free, he's reworked his image to cater to science museums across the country.
My initial reaction, I admit, was confusion. I studied the museum brochure for at least half an hour, trying to figure out what it meant - a corpse stylized to forever be doing the half-pipe on a skateboard, or a pregnant woman with her near- term baby in her sliced-open womb looking peacfully through plasticized eyeballs. Did "Skateboarder" ever really ride a skateboard? Did the pregnant woman ever look forward to kissing her child's head, or counting her tiny fingers?
Von Hagens insists all his body donors gave their consent to be displayed as frozen, skinless art in a techo-science lab project. He maintains he has cremated all suspected Chinese political prisoners (the bodies that arrived with bullet holes in their skulls). He reaffirms the bodies of Russian mental patients were legally obtained from a Siberian hospital after being determined to be "abandoned." Besides, von Hagens didn't know who they were and the process is legal in those countries, so why worry our libertarian heads about it?
I can't help feeling like a voyeur when I look at the museum brochure, which tastefully poses the corpses so genitalia aren't visible. I have a strange feeling about the people I'm looking at so carefully. I'm impressed with the muscle structure and I'm in awe of the wonders of the human body, but I have a strange feeling in my gut. These were people. Those eyes once cried tears. And I believe these bodies once housed souls.
Isn't this pornography? I'm looking at human beings as objects, rather than as people. Has von Hagens managed to strip not only the skin, but the identity and humanity from them? Von Hagens refuses to answer questions about the personal identity of his displays, saying it would violate his privacy agreements with the deceased, or could upset some relatives who weren't in favor of plastination.
I'm not necrophobic. I love visiting cemeteries. I love reading the names, the dates, the epitaphs. I've been to a Polish World War II cemetery in Italy and saw countless graves bearing my husband's surname. I've been to the American cemetery in Normandy and cried at the sight of endless white crosses marking thousands of young American servicemen who paid with their blood to free Europe. I've been to the World War I Aisne-Marne American Cemetery in Belleau Wood, France, where 2,900 Marines are buried. They have names like Andrzejczyk, Farharj, Echeverria, MacDonald, Dvorak. I love strolling the grounds of Mount Olivet Cemetery in Golden and reading the names of some of the people who made Colorado, like ex-slave Julia Greeley, and Denver's first Catholic bishop, Joseph Machebeuf, and three of the victims of the Columbine tragedy: Daniel Mauser, Matthew Kechter and Kelly Fleming.
Maybe that's the difference. When we honor the dead, we honor who they were, who they loved, what they died for. When we view an exhibit of anonymous body donors, we reduce them to merely a collection of body parts. That doesn't sound like a reasonable basis for art or science.
It sounds like pornography to me.
Debbie Nowak is a resident of Arvada
Pretty darn pitiful that there's been so LITTLE press about this guy! 
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MaryG
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teachingmom
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Please congratulate your sister in law for this. Well done!
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~Irene (Mom to 6 girls, ages 7-19)
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MacBeth
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Debbie is your SIL??? I did not know that!
Great, well reasoned article! 
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God Bless!
MacBeth in NY
Don's wife since '88; "Mom" to the Fab 4
Nature Study
MacBeth's Blog 
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Mary G
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MacBeth wrote:
Debbie is your SIL??? I did not know that!
Great, well reasoned article! |
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Yep! Married for 19 years to probably my favorite of five brothers; probably my best friend even though we're 1500 miles apart. We do see each other -- and others on this particular forum  -- at least once per year!
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MaryG
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MacBeth
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Mary G. wrote:
MacBeth wrote:
Debbie is your SIL??? I did not know that!
Great, well reasoned article! |
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Yep! Married for 19 years to probably my favorite of five brothers; probably my best friend even though we're 1500 miles apart. We do see each other -- and others on this particular forum -- at least once per year! |
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So, I have met your brother?  Who knew?
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God Bless!
MacBeth in NY
Don's wife since '88; "Mom" to the Fab 4
Nature Study
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Mary G
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MacBeth wrote:
Mary G. wrote:
MacBeth wrote:
Debbie is your SIL??? I did not know that!
Great, well reasoned article! |
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Yep! Married for 19 years to probably my favorite of five brothers; probably my best friend even though we're 1500 miles apart. We do see each other -- and others on this particular forum -- at least once per year! |
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So, I have met your brother? Who knew? |
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You mean he didn't mention his favorite little sister 
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MaryG
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momwise
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Mary G. wrote:
| You mean he didn't mention his favorite little sister |
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Isn't that hard to believe?
Imagine my surprise 2 years after meeting Rick G. to find out that the Mary G. on the CCM list was his wife and Debbie's sil!! 
I bet there are a lot more of those surprises in this group.
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Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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4Real Forums : Exploring God's Creation in Nature and Science
Topic: Gunther VonHagens?
