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LLMom
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| Posted: Feb 12 2009 at 1:43pm | IP Logged
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How successful are you at doing science experiments? We are lousy. I would say at least 90% of our experiments don't work. And we usually repeat them. Today we did one where you tell if an egg is cooked or raw by spinning it. Our eggs did the opposite of what the book said. (it said the raw egg would keep spinning when you lightly touch it. Ours wouldn't even spin; just wobbled) It's a real downer for my kids. They don't have much faith in science.
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Lisa
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Booksnbabes
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| Posted: Feb 12 2009 at 4:35pm | IP Logged
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 As long as they have faith in God!
Ours don't always turn out either, which I why, so far, we've stuck with things like paper plate sundials and science kits. When we do fail (often!), it helps to review many of the scientific discoveries that were "failures" or found by accident. Makes me feel better. 
Now I wish I had a cooked egg though...I want to try it!
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ALmom
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| Posted: Feb 12 2009 at 6:16pm | IP Logged
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Lisa:
Oh, I so empathize. Every experiment I ever tried to do with the children was a total failure. We had years of no real science because I didn't quite know what to do - experiments wouldn't work for me, textbooks left them dazed and full of questions I had no idea how to answer - either that or convinced that science was the deadliest dull topic on the face of the planet. Dad tried to take over teaching - and he could do plenty of hands on things, it just meant we got to 2 - 3 per year between unexpected business trips and work responsibilities. We kept trying different things until God gave us a science fan.
I even had the experiment books piled in a stack to sell when the uncanny happened. God gave us a science fan. He went through those same books as they lay piled in the to sell pile in the middle of the family room and got everything to work. I think he told me not to get rid of the books cause he did most of the experiments sometime around the time he was 8. He told me later that it was a challenge to him to find out which important piece of instructions they left out or how you really needed to tweak the experiments to make them work. He did say a lot of them did not work as written (that did salve my ego a bit but not too much since I never could get them to work and he did by 8 or so). In any case, I don't do experiments here anymore - he does or he tells his older siblings which ones are worth doing and which things to be careful about, etc. (They still tend to be like me).
Janet
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CatholicMommy
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| Posted: Feb 12 2009 at 8:25pm | IP Logged
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I have always found I need to do them myself beforehand to figure out the tweaking - then do it with children. But, um, time???? 
So right now, we do a LOT of exploring and discovering and just plain playing around with nature and stuff that KNOW works (melting snow, growing crystals, etc.) And I wait for someone else to tell me which things work and which don't and how to adjust them!
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guitarnan
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| Posted: Feb 12 2009 at 8:50pm | IP Logged
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Failed experiments are a part of science. That's how real-life science works, too. Scientists don't get it right every single time (maybe it's time to read Thomas Edison's bio!).
Experiments don't have to be complicated to teach something, either. My son got the hugest kick out of soaking a raw egg in vinegar (in a glass jar) until the shell dissolved, leaving the membrane intact. He even turned it into a photography project. Total "work" time, about 5 seconds to pour the vinegar...
Growing plants is reasonably foolproof - you know, sprouting beans in a plastic cup, with paper towels to hold the beans against the clear sides of the cup? (Black construction paper works, too.)
Physics experiments are science - build ramps of differing heights and angles and roll toy cars down them, then cover the ramps with bubble wrap and see what happens to the toy cars.
Human anatomy experiments are science - keep an exercise log for 6 weeks to see how strength builds up, learn to take your pulse, etc.
You can dissect a flower to see all its parts - science lab.
You can watch birds in your back yard every day and write down the species you see (libraries have bird books) and that is science. (Warning - my dd did this and then wanted to color and cut out all kinds of bird pictures...this turned into an all-year bird study!)
Even my son's high school (Apologia) chemistry experiments are pretty simple, really...some things haven't worked, but we just shrug, write down the results and try something else.
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MaryM
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| Posted: Feb 13 2009 at 3:19am | IP Logged
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I can empathize, Lisa - there is nothing more frustrating than to have the rapt attention of curious minds only to have an experiment not give the results it is supposed to. It's especially bad if you have an audience beyond your own children .
Catholicmommy's suggestion to practice the demo/experiment ahead of time can really be helpful because one is able to work out the kinks, get better instructions if needed, change materials, etc, ahead of time. This can be particularly productive if you do have children who are quite disappointed when it doesn't "work." But even that isn't a guarrantee because even though you think you have it, if there are other variables when you do it again it could change. But it does give you a better feel for how it needs to work.
I also want to mention that there is a difference between an experiment and a demonstration of scientific principles. Many of the projects called experiments in student texts really are demonstrations, as the outcome is known already and it is just being used to show how that principle or property works. A true experiment has uncertain outcomes and is used by the experimenter to test variables and hypotheses. Many times one needs to "experiment" with a demonstration in order to achieve the outcome that had been previously demonstrated and we know is "supposed" to happen. Part of the experiment can also be the figuring out why it wasn't responding as predicted. If we approach it like that with the kids that can sometimes help curb disappointment and draw them into the inquiry and curiosity stage - which really does make science more fun and intriguing.
And as Janet mentioned sometimes it's in the understanding or wording of the directions. Maybe they are not well written. Sometimes there is an assumption of additional knowledge or understanding so the writers aren't specific enough in their directions. Sometimes wording is interpreted different than the instructions intended based on other past experiences or assumptions of the reader.
Now, since no one has specifically addressed this egg experiment... let me say you totally got me intrigued when you posted this afternoon. I started thinking boy, I wonder why that didn't work?...I'm not really familiar with this particular specific demo and hadn't done it before (as far as I can remember anyway). So I googled the basics for this project and we hard boiled some eggs and started. It did take some "experimenting" to get it, but once we did it was easily replicated each time. It helps to have a basic idea of why it is going to react the way the book describes it. When the raw egg is spun both the fluid yolk/white and the shell spin. When you stop the egg temporarily you stop only the shell but the fluid inside is still moving so when you release your fingertip from the shell, the fluid which is still moving takes the shell with it. That doesn't happen with the hardboiled because it is one solid object, so when stopped will remain still even when released. Since I knew it had to work that way, I played with some variables until it did work.
I'm wondering if you attempted to spin the eggs like a top. I think I knew that you can't spin a raw egg on its end so I automatically spun it on it's side. It works that way. But later when I was thinking what might have happened with your demo, I tried them on the ends. The hard-boiled one spins like a top (and way better than it does on it's side!) and as I mentioned the raw one absolutley won't spin at all - just falls over in a wobbly motion. Now on their sides they both will spin. The raw one does not spin fast and it is a somewhat wobbly spin but still works to demo this principle. You need to give it a smooth, even twist - not fast or anything.
Also the touch can impact the results. You have to touch the eggs enough to momentarily stop them. When you release after they have been stopped is when you see the continued spinning in the raw egg and no spinning of the cooked egg.
We also found in our experimenting with some variables that if the raw egg was cold it didn't demonstrate this as well as a room temperature egg did. We could get it to spin some but it didn't continue to spin as well after being touched/stopped.
Well, that probably enough geeky  science thoughts from me...
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marihalojen
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Mary and Lisa, I'm buying eggs to boil today. I'm intrigued!
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LLMom
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| Posted: Feb 13 2009 at 9:12am | IP Logged
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Mary,
Thanks for the suggestions. I wanted to get this one right so I changed the surfaces we were spinning them on. (we were spinning them on their long side) This time the raw one did what it was supposed to do. It kept spinning when we touched it, but the boiled one did too! In fact, we had to touch it several times to get it to completly stop. We have tried spinning it slower and that has helped a bit but it doesn't completly stop. I guess we just keep trying.
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Lisa
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MaryM
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| Posted: Feb 13 2009 at 11:22am | IP Logged
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LLMom wrote:
| I wanted to get this one right so I changed the surfaces we were spinning them on. |
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Oh, yes, another variable - I forgot to mention that one (we discovered that as well). Good job with the experimentation of variables!!
LLMom wrote:
| It kept spinning when we touched it, but the boiled one did too! In fact, we had to touch it several times to get it to completly stop. We have tried spinning it slower and that has helped a bit but it doesn't completly stop. I guess we just keep trying. |
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Need a firmer touch - use more fingers and really stop it. The point is they both need to be physically stopped (even if it takes a little more effort on the cooked one to stop it).We found we could also do a multi-finger stop of the raw one and it would continue spinning so it was an equal variable for the sake of the demo.
marihalojen wrote:
| Mary and Lisa, I'm buying eggs to boil today. I'm intrigued! |
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JuliaT
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| Posted: Feb 13 2009 at 5:28pm | IP Logged
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The only experiment that we have been successful with is the baking soda and vinegar one. We do that one alot just to make ourselves feel good.
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Julia
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Lori
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Julia--thank you for the hearty laugh tonight...I needed it!
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4Real Forums : Exploring God's Creation in Nature and Science
Topic: science experiments
