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Maggie
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| Posted: April 24 2012 at 5:27pm | IP Logged
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(Long post--if you can't read it, please just say a Hail Mary for me).
Dear Moms~
Please pray for me and my dd. She is a *very* difficult child, to put it mildly. We have struggled through a lot with her--temperament wise. Always have. Since birth. Even as an infant, there was aboslutely no honeymoon period. She barely slept. Nursed a lot--which, with one, was fine.
Intellectually, the girl is way beyond her years, which poses its own challenges for me in regards to me stimulating her--but emotionally, I am just having a very difficult time.
I "fantasize" about sending her to school...but then shudder to think what would become of the sweetness that is in her. That is no judgment on others who send their children to school. Please, no rotten tomatoes there...our area is not a good area for schools...and even one of our Catholic schools has a child with "2 Mo**ie*". I cannot expose her to that. That child would be in her grade level, too.
So...school is not an option (and philosophically speaking, I couldn't even send her...and my pediatrician thinks it would actually make her behavior worse saying she would either become the trouble-maker or turn inward completely)so home schooling it is...but there are many days where I just do not even want to wake up and face the world...or rather, her...shuddering at the demands, the whining, the disrespect, the shouting...how terrible is that? I can't even handle a 6yo! (hitting my head on table).
Because she is so intelligent, her art for argument and disrespect...and talking back...is perfected to such a T that I feel like she is 15. She's not. Just 6.
Her tantrums are unbelievable. If she does not get her way, watch out. Full-body tantrums, complete with hitting, kicking, screaming, scratching...and even in Whole Foods Market a few weeks ago: "Help! Help! This is not my real mom! Call the police!!!" (I am shocked no one confronted me--she was very convincing). For a while, I thought she had to have some sort of sensory processing disorder...but we had her tested, and she did fine. The therapist thought I was nuts because my dd sailed through everything with flying colors...
This has taken a toll on our marriage...big time. If any of you have ever had a truly, difficult child...you will know the pain this causes everyone all-around.
We have sought counseling with a well-known Catholic family therapist...who has been a bit helpful...but nothing has really, truly *worked*. This person has made me think the worst of my child, actually...and it is not helpful for me because I really need to love her and recognize that she is struggling herself.
A friend stayed with me in Feb. for 4 days...her take on it was that my dd is just too intelligent and easily frustrated. I thought her assessment was kind...but she said she would not lie (no, she would not) and that she really thought my dd is very sweet, albeit incredibly strong-willed. She tried comforting me, telling me that a lot of saints were "strong-willed"--again, a euphemism.
I blame myself a lot. I wish I could attach to her better, but I find myself constantly looking for a break because I am so spent. The house suffers, meals are never on time, laundry is a disaster...and I am just so tired that I find myself very unproductive.
It does not help that the younger one has picked up on her very bad habits...and is perfecting them himself.
Please pray for our family. This is just breaking my heart...and my spirit, I'm afraid.
Your prayers are craved by me right now.
Thank you! 
__________________
Wife to dh (12 years) Mama to dd (10) ds (8), dd (1), ds (nb) and to Philip Mary (5/26/09), Lucy Joy (12/6/09), and Margaret Mary (3/6/10) who entered Heaven before we had a chance to hold them.
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jawgee
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| Posted: April 24 2012 at 5:42pm | IP Logged
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Prayers.
My 10YO was gone for the day and my house was so....peaceful. 
I read in your post about her as an infant and I remembered when C was a baby. He was the same way.
(Oh, and he is intelligent, easily frustrated, and "strong-willed", too).
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Monica
C (12/2001), N (11/2005), M (5/2008), J (8/2009) and three angels
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Grateful in VA
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| Posted: April 24 2012 at 6:12pm | IP Logged
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Praying with empathy
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Mackfam
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| Posted: April 24 2012 at 6:30pm | IP Logged
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Dear Maggie,
Please consider posting the bulk of your post again in Mothering for some more practical support. I think you would find that there are a lot of us that have strong willed children, and the practical support combined with the prayerful support here could be very helpful and leave you feeling encouraged and hopeful, which is what I pray for for you. I want you to feel hopeful because there is every reason to hope!!
I have FOUR VERY STRONG WILLED CHILDREN. And, I recognize myself in your words. As a younger mother, I struggled in particular, as you are, with loving a particular child because of strong challenges we faced.
So as a friend, I'll tell you that the best thing I did was to ask Our Lady to come alongside me and love a particular child with Her Mother's heart, to fill the deep void created by my weakness and inability to love to the depth I knew I needed to at that time. And then I asked Our Lady to show me how to love that child, that precious Image of God, just as She loved Her Son, who had to have the strongest will to endure the Via Crucis on our behalf, and further I asked Her to show me how to nurture that child so that the child could grow to the potential God created within the child as a person. (I know this is a lot of "that child" and "this child" - thanks for indulging my desire to be discreet for this child.  ) Because I was floundering. With all my heart. Flounder. Flounder. Flounder.  I don't mean to make too much light of it, because it felt heavy and like a burden to me at the time. My prayers were answered, and I felt hope.
I will pray the same prayer for you and for your daughter: that Our Lady would come alongside, and love your daughter, love you, and show you how to mother and nurture this precious child of God.
Practically speaking, I'll share with you that the strong willed child is in need of a great deal of flexibility within a strong system of a few very common-sense boundaries. You and your husband will have to decide what those boundaries are. My husband and I decided early on that crossing the line from respect to disrespect and from kindness to unkindness were two boundaries we intended to enforce with our full attention. When I sense that these priority boundaries are being broached, especially if I have let my own guard down and they are broached on a regular basis, I stop everything. Absolutely everything. And work on defining (or re-defining) those boundaries, and work on assisting everyone in the family to toe the line when it comes to respect and kindness, which means we work to offer respect (especially to those in authority, like a parent) and cultivate the habit of kindness. The children understand and are on board with our family goal of respect and kindness toward each other, and that's key.
Disrespect here equals an immediate apology, re-do of words (and by that I mean choosing new respectful words/tone, and if help is needed in finding the respectful words/tone, I help), and if a habit of disrespect has begun to develop --> physical labor. Period. That could be an act of service, but 9 times out of 10 it means quick, hard labor --> push ups. (especially effective for boys!)Practical: {{FOR OLDER CHILD}} "That was disrespectful. Please rephrase your words and change your tone to be respectful. If you'd like to discuss this more using respectful words and tone I would be willing. We can take a break and revisit this if you need some space for a while." {{FOR YOUNGER CHILD}} "That was disrespectful. Do you need help finding words that show me your respect, but still disagree with something I said?" Unkindness here means an immediate apology, re-do of words, and sometimes an act of service for the person who was treated unkindly (cleaning room, cleaning their desk, clearing their place after dinner, etc.). Practical: "Those were not kind words, please re-do them, and take a break from the situation if you need some space." You and your husband will need to decide together what boundaries in your home you want to have in place as non-negotiables. Keep your list simple, and get the entire family on board with agreeing on these boundaries. Then, come up with simple, common-sense helps that fit the crime, so-to-speak. The more elaborate the consequence, the less likely you are to be able to implement and enforce it on the fly, so what has worked for us is keeping things simple and goal-focused --> respect and kindness. The goal here is training in boundaries which everyone (including children) agrees are important and worthy, not corporal-fear-based enforcement, but even if a child didn't agree on a goal, the goal is no less worthy, and would be no less enforced.
More than my 2 cents, but I long to give you a , tell you that there is great and wonderful hope for these strong willed children who have so much to share in serving Our Lord through their gifts! I am praying for you, Maggie! You are not alone. Your task is difficult, but not impossible. It IS possible to return to joy and peace in your home. Have tremendous hope! And now....I must away to my little flock of strong-willed peeps!
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19 , ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
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Pilgrim
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| Posted: April 24 2012 at 6:38pm | IP Logged
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Praying with empathy also, although i do think what you are dealing with IS harder than we have it with the one who's hard to parent here (not to discourage, but to say "I'm sorry you are dealing with such a difficult time  ). Will pray for you with much empathy.
St. Rita, please pray for us!
St. Jude, please pray for us!
Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal, please pray for us!
Mary, Seat of Wisdom, please pray for us!
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ladybugs
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| Posted: April 24 2012 at 6:57pm | IP Logged
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Dear Maggie,
I, like Mackfam, have FOUR VERY STRONG WILLED CHILDREN, too.
I would like to just second what Jen said.....she gave you excellent advice.
My oldest is now 15 and I LOVE the young lady she is becoming (we're still fine tuning some things). I have had to learn how to give her a wide berth, though, because traditional schooling would NEVER have worked for her.
You'll be in my prayers.
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Love and God Bless,
Maria P
My etsy store - all proceeds go to help my fencing daughters!
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guitarnan
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| Posted: April 24 2012 at 7:09pm | IP Logged
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I am praying, too, because my older child is also strong willed. He's 20 now and I am thankful for his persistence...he'll never be pushed into anything he truly does not want to do.
My go-to author during the "what's going on and what do we do" period quickly became Mary Sheedy Kurcinka. Her books saved my sanity and my relationship with my son and, well, everyone.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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kristacecilia
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| Posted: April 24 2012 at 7:26pm | IP Logged
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I am praying for you.
Your oldest reminds me of my oldest.... I am ashamed to say there are days I would just rather not deal with him. On the other hand, he can be the sweetest, most considerate soul sometimes.
We have the same reasons for not sending him to public school, even though my DH gets messages on a fairly regular basis about how I want to ship him off on the bus tomorrow morning.
Anyway, just wanted to let you know that you aren't alone.
Prayers!
__________________
God bless,
Krista
Wife to a great guy, mom to two boys ('04, '06) and three girls ('08, '10, '12!)
I blog at http://kristacecilia.wordpress.com/
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Kathryn
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| Posted: April 24 2012 at 8:53pm | IP Logged
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I'll pray for you and say that I have just 1 (may be 1 1/2) difficult children. I sooo understand the pain it causes all the way around.
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Kathryn in TX
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Claire F
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You and your family are in my prayers as well.
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Claire
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Servant2theKing
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| Posted: April 24 2012 at 10:29pm | IP Logged
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Maggie, I have been where you are. I can tell you with utter sincerity and profound hope that all is not in vain. Jen gave you wise, wonderful advice and counsel. All I can offer are my prayers and a bit of hopeful encouragement!
I spoke with my own 34yo "difficult" child today, who was telling me just how terrible the world is today (compared to when he was young), how much he wants to make things better for his own children, and how much he values the things we taught him! He still has his struggles, but I would not change a single moment of the past 34 years when I hear how God is working in his life and touching his soul now. There IS hope on the other side of the difficult years!
I used to say we birth our children into the world only once, but we birth their souls into Eternity for the rest of our lives, and theirs! Pray! Hope! Trust! Hold Fast!
Keep listening to these dear, wise ladies, and to your own mother's heart, which helps you love your child no matter what! No one else in the entire world knows your child or loves your child like you can!
May our Blessed Mother cover you and your dear child with her loving mantle and intercede for you in powerful ways whenever the road seems most difficult.
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DominaCaeli
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| Posted: April 24 2012 at 10:44pm | IP Logged
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Maggie, thank you for posting this, and ladies, thank you so much for chiming in on this issue. I have been heart-heavy over a child I have had difficulty with since he was born--I so appreciate your candid thoughts and advice. And prayers, Maggie, for you and your daughter.
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Blessings,
Celeste
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Booksnbabes
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and 
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Wife to wonderful DH, mom to SIX beautiful gifts from God!
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montessori_lori
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Maggie, I have a daughter just like yours. Difficult, from the beginning - difficulty with sleeping, tantrums, potty training, behavior, etc. When other moms would complain about their kids I would just have to laugh - if their children were rainstorms, my daughter was a tornado and a hurricane wrapped into one. Strong-willed didn't even cover it because there was SO much more than that.
One time I mentioned on twitter how hard things were and another mom mentioned this book: The Difficult Child.
I went to Amazon and ordered it that day and somehow it arrived in another day or two (God knew how much I needed it). I immediately devoured it and saw my daughter on every page. I learned so much: why she is this way, why it's not my fault (or something I've done wrong), and most of all, how to deal with her.
I started implementing the principles and saw immediate improvement. It's not a miracle cure, but now, 3 years later (she's 8), she has become a delightful young lady and all of her good traits can shine now that we have dealt with the "difficult" stuff. She's still a challenge but SO much improved.
I highly recommend that book, and also, just hang in there! It's these kinds of children who literally change the world for the better once they grow up.
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SeaStar
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| Posted: April 27 2012 at 6:17am | IP Logged
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guitarnan wrote:
I am praying, too, because my older child is also strong willed. He's 20 now and I am thankful for his persistence...he'll never be pushed into anything he truly does not want to do.
My go-to author during the "what's going on and what do we do" period quickly became Mary Sheedy Kurcinka. Her books saved my sanity and my relationship with my son and, well, everyone.
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Ditto this a bazillion times. My ds is very strong-willed, and those books are a huge help.
If your friend noticed that your dd is easily frustrated, that truly can be the root of a lot of "bad" behavior. For my ds, that is a huge trigger.
If he glances at a math sheet and doesn't know right away how to do it, I get things like "I won't". "I hate school" or crumpling up the page, running out of the room, etc. Most kids would just ask for help.
But I'm on to him.... I remind him that he needs to use words like "I don't understand this" or "I could use some help" instead of acting out.
Other things- like uneasiness about the unknown- also set him going. He is going camping this weekend at a boy scout camp he has never been to before- and he has been a bear all week.
I finally sat down with him and we looked on line to find pictures of this new camp, and that has seemed to ease his tension.
These kids just have strong personalities. They are passionate. That is how God made them.
Lori's book looks very good as well... I will have to check that out!
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Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
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mariB
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Maggie,
When I read your post, I felt like I was looking at a post about my daughter, who is now 12 and has outgrown most of those behaviors. She might be overly sensitive. I couldn't even bring my daughter into a shoe store because she would start throwing a tantrum because she didn't like the smell of the new sneakers! Her tantrums would last for 3 hours straight...I am not kidding you!
She is verys strong willed and gets easily frustrated. Have you found what makes all this trigger? I was so frustrated with my daughter and then I started to look at her in a different way. I told her, "You are so strong. What an amazing quality. God will use that." I don't want to make a diagnosis on you daughter. Just letting you know that I feel for you and that there is hope. It probably was easier for me because I had three boys older than her and I see you have so many little ones. Since she is so intellegent let her do some things that the others are absolutley not allowed to do. Try not to get angry with her but be firm. I found when I got angry the situation only escalated. Sometimes when I joke with my daughter (like your situation in the store where your daughter said you weren't her mother) by saying, "Ha ha you are so funny! I think you need a stage right now because your acting is brilliant!" might diffuse the situation.
Praying for you and for your daughter. That God will turn her strong traits into something good...something to glorify him...to make this world a better place. BTW...there is no way I'm letting my daughter go to school either...not a judgement on anyone...I just know for her, it would be the wrong decision. When I pray for my daughter, I will be praying for yours!
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marib-Mother to 22ds,21ds,18ds,15dd,11dd and wife to an amazing man for 23 years
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SallyT
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Prayers for you, from the heart, because I have strong-willed children, too, and my oldest, now 18, was VERY like yours at that age. I had to keep telling myself that surely this child would be a wonderful adult, so I really should refrain from breaking her neck . . .
And it's true: she's 18, in college, and wonderful. I miss her and look forward to talking on the phone with her every day. So take heart. The "difficulty" is the B side of a great personality which will emerge more and more with maturity -- at least, that's been my experience.
I second Lori's recommendation of The Difficult Child. Despite the sort of negative-sounding title, this is *the* most helpful book I've found for describing this kind of behavior and its causes.
I feel for you and the way this one child's behavior clouds your entire household. Over time, I became more and more determined that I was not going to let one child's emotions run our life -- easier said than done, but I found I dealt with her a little more straightforwardly and calmly, in some of the way that MariB describes, when I told myself that I wasn't going to let a 6-year-old treat me, or the rest of the family, badly.
The best strategy I found for bad situations was -- and it took time -- to teach her to retreat to her room, or some other place alone, so that we all got a break. She was not a child you could hug through a tantrum, and the most effective thing for her to be able to calm down was to be removed from interactions and stimulation. I *tried* to keep it from sounding like, or being, a punishment; what I meant it to be was a habit she could develop for coping with being on overload. I would even say, "I'm not punishing you, but it sounds as though you need some time to defuse." And then I'd escort her to her room (or carry her, fighting all the way), if she wouldn't go there herself (and yes, I have used locks on the outsides of children's doors, or sat outside them, to keep the child in question inside until he/she calmed down, because that was the only way the other people in the house were going to get a break). Eventually she learned to do this for herself, and even now, in college, with a roommate in a very small room, she knows when she needs to go for a walk, or do something to get away, so that she can regroup.
My daughter *did* go to school until she was 9, by the way, and if there were one thing I could go back and re-do . . . In school she was always "too good," as her teachers said, holding herself in so that she could cope with all the interactions, and then falling totally apart as we walked home and staying fallen apart for most of the evening. She wasn't instantly better when she came home (in some ways, for a while, things were worse) but over time she really did get it together a lot more. And she's been a terrific teenager.
One more thought: I don't know whether she's an introvert, like my daughter, but the overstimulation of places like the grocery store might really be too much for her system right now. If you can possibly avoid having to take her out, I would do so. If she wants to go, tell her that she may come with you sometime soon as a *treat* and a *privilege*, but that any out-of-control behavior will result in your leaving the store immediately. Good public behavior may be easier to learn than good private behavior (kids fall apart where they feel safe), and that might be something to work on initially.
I love what Jen said about boundaries. It can be so easy for one child's personality to swamp everything, and our job as parents is to help that child to understand where to stop -- and then the harder lesson of *how* to stop, and the even harder and longer lesson of *how* to stop *herself,* without parental help.
Offering my day for you right now. I have *so* been there.
Sally
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Maggie
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| Posted: April 27 2012 at 1:36pm | IP Logged
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Thank you all for your kind replies. I am so grateful for your prayers.
Triggers? If she doesn't get her way...
She can be quite physically aggressive. I just took the computer away from her...she and I were coming up with food ideas for her FHC party. Because she was being controlling and mean, I closed the laptop and told her we needed to do this later. She the hits her brother very hard. I told her er to go to her room and she decides to cone over and hit me hard.
I did not respond well at all. I feel terrible...but when she hits me, I just find that so offensive and brazen! But she is very comfortable doing this.
I am so beside myself with this child.
Any suggestions in this particular scenario...it's replicated way too often here...
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Wife to dh (12 years) Mama to dd (10) ds (8), dd (1), ds (nb) and to Philip Mary (5/26/09), Lucy Joy (12/6/09), and Margaret Mary (3/6/10) who entered Heaven before we had a chance to hold them.
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Mackfam
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| Posted: April 27 2012 at 2:59pm | IP Logged
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Maggie wrote:
| Any suggestions in this particular scenario...it's replicated way too often here... |
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Sure.
At this point:
Maggie wrote:
| I just took the computer away from her...she and I were coming up with food ideas for her FHC party. Because she was being controlling and mean, |
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You can offer to help her find words to use to explain what is bothering her if she is still able to be reasonable. If she's beyond reason, firmly let her know that she needs a break from the situation and excuse her from it. Period. Take her hand and walk her away if needed, or walk her to her room. In sensing that her behavior was starting to move toward a boundary that we enforce (KINDNESS), I'd probably be on my guard. If the situation escalates rapidly:
Maggie wrote:
| I closed the laptop and told her we needed to do this later. She the hits her brother very hard. I told her er to go to her room and she decides to cone over and hit me hard. |
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Physically stop her right here:
Maggie wrote:
| She the hits her brother very hard. |
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If you see her gearing up, pulling back and about to hit, grab her hand, don't let her hit her brother and DEFINITELY do not let her hit you. The bottom line is, as soon as you are able, physically intervene in her hitting.
If needed, physically restrain her until she has quieted to a less destructive state then remove her to her room until she is completely calm and ready to apologize for unkindness AND make right whatever she threw, broke, bit, ripped if it was a destructive fit. She MUST make right whatever she destroyed or hurt, and she must apologize for being unkind. When determining whether or not to release a child from his/her room after a fit, I ask them if 1) they are ready to apologize and 2) they are ready to repair "x"? If yes and they are calm, they can come out. If no, they stay in.
Favorite parenting book: Discipline That Last a Lifetime by Dr. Ray Guarendi, Catholic, clinical psychologist, father of 10.
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: April 27 2012 at 3:39pm | IP Logged
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Going along with what Jen said. I find it helps to think of it as when the child gets out of control that it is literally that. They are no longer able to control how they're acting. They need that control applied from the outside. Not in a punative way. Just to prevent them from doing things that they know are wrong but that they've lost the internal control to stop themselves. So that things like sending them to their room, or having them stand facing the wall or whatever it happens to be is only until they regain that internal control. I love this because it encourages them to master themselves and stay in control. They have total control over how long this lasts. And as they learn to regain control faster they also are learning the same skills not to lose control in the first place.
And Maggie, you might have to model the apologizing for getting out of control yourself from what you said here "I did not respond well at all. I feel terrible...but when she hits me, I just find that so offensive and brazen!" 
But think how great an impact that will make. That we can recover from messing up. That we can regain control and attempt to make it right. That it's not the "end of the world" and we do have something we can do about it.
__________________
Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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4Real Forums : We Pray to the Lord
Topic: difficult child
