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Courtney
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| Posted: Nov 20 2006 at 11:29pm | IP Logged
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My ds (6 1/2) is in his first year of scouting (tiger scouts). Scouting is new to me, so I wasn't sure what to expect. His den has only 4 boys and is part of our homeschool co-op group. His pack, however, is mainly made up of public school kids. Ds loves everything about boy scouts and I'm happy for him. However, I am more than a little disappointed in the pack meetings. I guess I expected a lot more order. It's noisy and often chaotic. My husband comes home totally exhausted by the noise and chaos (being the introvert that he is  ).
Last week they had a cake auction at the pack meeting (why are boys scouts baking cakes as a project?) in which each scout brings a cake to the pack meeting that he made for auctioning for fundraiser. Our den leader specifically stated that the boys were to make their own cakes as much as possible. My ds came up with how he wanted to decorate his cake (had to be within the theme "rolling along" so he wanted a train cake). I had him read the directions on the cake mix, add the ingredients, mix it. I poured it in the pan, put it in the oven and took it out. He totally decorated it himself and was so proud! It turned out really cute. When dh and ds got to the pack meeting, our den leader came in with a gorgeous, detailed cake that obviously she had made herself. Her son won 2nd place among the Tiger Scouts. My ds didn't care so much about the winning, but it bothered me for the message it sent the other boys. However, apparently many boys (from other dens) had cakes made pretty much by mom.
I know this is getting long, but I guess I'm wondering what your scouting experience is like. Do you belong to a group through your parish? Are you with just homeschoolers? I know packs can vary widely. I'm considering finding a different pack for next year that has a bit more structure and respect to it. Any thoughts?
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Courtney in Texas
Wife to Mike since 3/94 
Mom to Candace 10/97,Christopher 4/00 and Connor 11/11
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Michaela
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Joined: Feb 25 2005
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| Posted: Nov 21 2006 at 1:07am | IP Logged
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Nicholas was a Tiger Scout in first grade. There were also only 4 or 5 boys in his group. The older scouts met in other classrooms, so I don't know how they behaved or what went on.
I do remember that the boys in Nicholas' group were out of control. I think because they were in school all day and were exhausted by that time (7-8:30pm)
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That was about the only downside, well, that and we met on Thursday night and the leaders were BIG Survivor fans. They wanted to get out of there as fast as possible because of their Survivor parties they held at their home. That used to really bug me because it took so much effort to get my twins there (who were about two at the time) and keep them happy, but out of the meetings that I had to attend. They sat in their stroller most of the time. Not fun when dh didn't get off work in time to be with them.
The experience was nice though. I've considered putting Nicholas back in or enrolling Nathan in Tiger Scouts. (or both)
The Race car derby was fun, building a rocket, all the fun activities & crafts....
We did enjoy it, but at the time, my biggest complaint was leaders who'd rather be home preparing for their Survivor party. 
All of my homeschool friends left the pack for a different one. They had older boys, so I don't know what the problem was.
There's nothing wrong with checking into other packs for next year. You could look around now. Keep in mind the dynamics will change come next year.
If you remained in the same pack, you could have a better time next year with the possibility some boys quit, new boys come, they'll be older...maybe more mature. Your ds may have a different leader when he moves up.
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Michaela
Momma to Nicholas 16, Nathan 13, Olivia 13, Teresa 6, & Anthony 3
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JennyMaine
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| Posted: Nov 21 2006 at 6:45am | IP Logged
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I'm struggling with Scouts right now myself. My son joined last year and is a Webelo this year. Our den only has 4 boys in it, and the others are public schooled. The den mom doesn't seem to be putting much effort into it this year. I think she does the bare minimum. The boys have done no service projects at all, and that bothers me.
I'm really questioning if I want my son to continue in Scouts. I don't like the checklist mentality of "do this, this, and this, and you get a badge." It is very time consuming on my part and he doesn't seem interested in the Scout activities themselves, as much as just playing with some other boys. The other boys, in this case, aren't well-behaved at all. We don't have a homeschool pack or one affiliated with our parish. I'm praying about trying to find another den, or just pulling him out and concentrating on family-based activities, such as 4H or something. Hmmm. . .
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--JennyMaine, Mom to Catherine (17) and Sam (15) "The countenance is a reflection of the soul. You should always have a calm and serene countenance." -- Therese of Lisieux
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Courtney
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| Posted: Nov 21 2006 at 7:04am | IP Logged
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Jenny, I know what you mean about the checklist behind the badges. It's like "do this and you get another bead/badge". I want them to really learn in the process of doing, not just do it to get something like a badge or bead.
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Courtney in Texas
Wife to Mike since 3/94
Mom to Candace 10/97,Christopher 4/00 and Connor 11/11
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Rebecca
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| Posted: Nov 21 2006 at 7:28am | IP Logged
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My husband is the cubmaster for our sons' pack because he wanted them to have a traditional scouting experience with lots of service peojects and outdoor activities. He was tired of seeing lukewarm, boring meetings and kids who dropped out all the time. The pack has grown exponentially however my husband is beat from doing all the work involved to make it a great pack. He probably spends on average 7-8 hours a week after work, on scouting.
There are some den leaders who only do the minimum and that is sad because the kids are the ones that are affected and think scouting is boring/uncool.
Like you, I have also noticed that things get out of hand quickly when no one is in charge. What we have found by running both pack and den meetings is that it is important to have a pretty set itinerary for each meeting or else chaos ensues. My sons are Tiger cub and Webelo level. The tiger cubs, especially, need a lesson, craft, snack and game (that involved running) or else they act crazy (wrestling, etc.)
Jenny, I feel the same way about the badge system. My oldest had been acting this way (do this, get a badge). We try to put the emphasis on what he is learning and achieving/doing for others rather than what he gets when he has learned it all. The pins and badges certainly are motivating for my son but it is hard to put it in the correct perspective. As with anything else, when a reward is given, often times it decreases the value of that which is trying to be achieved.
I do love scouting and think the positives outweigh the negatives but it certainly is not a perfect system. I like the emphasis on service, outdoors, patriotism and good clean fun.
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SharonO
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| Posted: Nov 21 2006 at 7:46am | IP Logged
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We went through the cub scout years while we were still in public school. I was a den leader for most of those years. Like mentioned before, keeping them busy with short lessons, lots of activity is the key (sounds a lot like CM, doesn't it?) We tried to get them outside for game time in the spring and fall while it was still daylight outside.
If you felt the cake experience was very competitive, wait until Pinewood Derby time! Dad's really like to get involved in this one and unfortunately, in my opinion, many boys miss out of the satisfaction of doing this themselves. Our pack always had a Parent Division to try to eliminate this problem, but you can tell by looking at the cars that Dad pretty much did most of the work.
My husband, who was an Eagle Scout, feels Boy Scouts has been "dummed down" since he went through. Unfortunately, it cheapens the signficance of earning Eagle for the ones who truly stuck with it and earned it.
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Sharon in MO
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kingvozzo
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| Posted: Nov 21 2006 at 7:58am | IP Logged
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SharonO wrote:
My husband, who was an Eagle Scout, feels Boy Scouts has been "dummed down" since he went through. Unfortunately, it cheapens the signficance of earning Eagle for the ones who truly stuck with it and earned it.
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My sister's family is very involved in Scouting. She has always told me not to get discouraged if Cub Scouting seems "lame."  It is much more parent-led (and therefore dependant on good adult leaders) than Boy Scouting. She mentioned that many families get discouraged by Cub Scouting, when the Boy Scouting experience might be a better fit.
We're in our 2nd year of Cubs right now. We changed Packs at the end of last year, and this Pack and Den are a thousand times more organized than the one last year. The Pack Meetings in particular were chaotic. I think a lot of it has to do with the ages of the boys.
Our Pack (and last year's too) were through the public schools. If there's a homeschool pack, I haven't heard of it. I like the convenience of it being so close. We're with homeschoolers for other activities.
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Noreen
Wife to Ed
Mom to 4 great kids and 10 sweet ones in Our Lady's arms
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Carole N.
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| Posted: Nov 21 2006 at 9:11am | IP Logged
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We have experience with both Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. Our Cub Scouts are chartered through the parish school, and our Boy Scouts are chartered by the Knights of Columbus. We have boys from homeschool, parish school, and public school.
In Scouting, I found that the Cubmaster/Scoutmaster can make the difference. When my oldest son was a Tiger, we had excelllent leadership. Very structured meetings, a bit of noise between activities, but things ran smoothly and ended at a reasonable hour.
When the cubmaster's son bridged to BS, we had several leaders. Being the Cubmaster takes quite a bit of time. But the committee can make it easier. Unformtunately this was not the situation with our Pack. Some were more dedicated than others.
For my oldest ds, I was the Den Leader with another mom. We were very organized and planned our meeting down to the last detail. Our meetings were right after school, and the boys could be a bit wild. We tried to have an outdoor activity so they could run off a little bit of energy. We had 14 boys in our den all from the parish school with the exception of my ds and one other boys from a local PS.
When the boys became Webelos, my dh took over with me. My dh is an engineer and a former Scout himself. He was very serious and tried to make the experience a learning experience for the boys. Our den dwindled down to seven boys who eventually bridged over to BS.
At the same time that my oldest ds was a Webelo, my youngest ds entered scouts. There were other parents who helped with that den. I cannot say how things went because I was not a part of that group, but it seemed very unstructured.
When my oldest ds bridged to BS, my youngest ds became a Webelo. Most of the members of his den dropped out. My dh and I took over as den leaders. At the same time we had a Cubmaster who was starting his own business. It was very unstructured. There was no committee to help out.
The last year we were in Cub Scouts, a really dynamic leader took over.  He formed a very strong committee, meetings ran smoothly. From what I hear now, the pack is going quite well.
When my youngest ds bridged to BS, my dh took over as the Scoutmaster. It is a lot of work, but the rewards are worth it.  The boys in the troop think the world of Joe. He has tried to bring structure and organization to the meetings. Now the boys are older (spring of 5th grade and up), and some are serious campers (once a month).
I know that this is long and not very well organized. I just think that scouting is an excellent program, but a lot of it depends on the leadership. If you have leaders who are willing to put in the time, provide the structure and organization necessary (esp. for cubs), then you will have a great experience.
And Boys Scouts is a completely different experience than Cub Scouts. It is driven more by the boys with adult leadership to guide them. Even though I have mixed experiences with Cub Scouts, I would not trade my Boy Scouts for the world.
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Carole ... in Wales
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stacykay
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| Posted: Nov 21 2006 at 9:17am | IP Logged
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Courtney,
I'm sorry your scouting experience hasn't been very good!
My boys have all been in scouts (oldest is an eagle-now in college-, next two are in boy scouts, and the fourth is in cub scouts.)
We do scouts through our parish, and it is really nice. We have parents who care so much about the boys and do incredible jobs. An example of my cub scout's den meeting: the boys were talking about nature, and each boy chose a different bird to read about that week. They all did the reading, drew pictures of the birds, and when they met, presented the information to each other, and then! they placed their pages in their own "scout folder," complete with page protectors. They look, remarkably, like nature notebooks! I, personally, think his leader has some CM running through him!
As for order, I have found that the parents who have polite and respectful sons are, for the most part, are the ones who have well-behaved dens.
Our pack meetings are very organized. Each den has a specific place to sit. Each month, there is a different group (ie. bear, wolf or etc.) in charge of the meeting and leads the Pledge of Allegiance and the Cub scout oath. They also are the ones who put on the skits for the evening. Badges are handed out, also, and that is about it. It lasts no longer than an hour.
The boys scouts do a lot of work to earn their badges. But the work to get there can be fun and interesting. My older two got to tour Fermi (nuclear reactor) while working on their atomic energy badges. They also got to go up in a little airplane with a former navy flyer, and *fly* while earning their aviation badges (I stayed home praying, but they came and flew over our house!)
I like being a part of a parish pack/troop, because we do get to pray and do projects that are decidedly Catholic.
As the boys move into scouts, they assume more of the leadership of the troop. There are adult leaders that oversee everything, but the boys have more input. My boys have all loved the camping experiences (they go somewhere every month.) My oldest was able to spend a week, backpacking on Isle Royale, with a small group of boys and dads from scouts. My 16yo has spent a week the past three summers working on Mackinac Island.
For my oldest's eagle project, he chose to do a refurbishing project at an old Detroit parish.
I think all the boys have benefitted from their scouting experiences. And I know we are fortunate to have the group we do.
Oh, and the cake thing? It sounds like the "pinewood derby" in our early years in scouts. Some boys would bring in cars that looked like exact replicas of assorted sports cars, with paint finishes like they just came off the line! (We have a lot of automotive dads in the pack!) To remedy this, the next year, and all the years since, we have the regular scout competition, plus! a "dad's" competition. That way, the dads who wish, can get that car bug out of their system, and their boys can do their own work.
I hope your experience improves!
God Bless,
Stacy in MI
(dss Matt-18, Mike-16, Pete, 11, Mark-8, Paul-5, and John-2.)
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Boy Scouts
