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Tina P.
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| Posted: Oct 20 2006 at 6:16am | IP Logged
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I'm about at wits' end. Our puppy, who is 5 months old, is starting a habit of defecating on the hardwood floor. She *was* urinating indoors, but she seems to have, for the most part, recovered from that. The vet says it's behavioral and has happened twice when my husband was home, but left to play racquetball with my son (the puppy's owner) early in the morning. My husband has been gone for the past week at a conference and guess what Licorice did every day since he's been gone?  My husband has never been overly affectionate toward her. Why should she miss him ~ if indeed that's why she's doing this? I don't even *like* her anymore.  I feel I can't trust her to roam a wider area than a back hall in the house unless I'm with her.
Our older dog never had issues such as these and I have to wonder whether part of it has to do with the fact that when we brought Chestnut home, there were only three kids (one of whom was a tiny baby) and he was the top dog, literally and figuratively. The children were added gradually. Now we have four more children and Licorice plays second fiddle to Chestnut. We've tried to show her more love. We've tried to let her sleep outside her hall to determine whether she was doing this because she was angry that she was kept away from us. Just prior to two days ago, my 12 yob slept with her in the back hall. The vet also recommended that he stop doing that so that when he goes off to college, she doesn't suffer from separation anxiety. She didn't have any accidents of any kind the night *I* slept on the floor with her, but I'm getting old and stiff.  I can't handle floor time much more.
I can't handle cleaning up after her daily messes, either.  I have a bunch of kids who need my attention. Do any of you have ideas for me short of sending her to the dog shelter? My ds would be heartbroken if we sent her away. We already gave away a cat he claimed as his own, we accidentally killed his goldfish , and we let loose a snake that he found in the neighborhood. The poor kid's been through pet trauma! 
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Tina, wife to one and mom to 9 + 3 in heaven
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Becky Parker
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| Posted: Oct 20 2006 at 6:23am | IP Logged
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Do you have a crate? We kept our puppy in one for quite a while (vet's recommendation). Whenever she was inside and we weren't playing with her, she was in her crate. I couldn't handle wondering where she was, what she was chewing up, and whether or not she was going to the bathroom on the floor, as well as take care of my kids too. The crate worked well. Dogs don't (usually) mess the area they sleep in, unless they are sick. We just rotated who was responsible to take her out and play with her (on a regular basis). My vet assured me that as long as we let her out to go to the bathroom and give her some attention on a regular basis, the crating was not cruel. (She might object at first and it may be necessary to put the crate in a room that you and the kids are not in.)
Becky
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Becky Parker
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| Posted: Oct 20 2006 at 6:26am | IP Logged
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One other thing comes to mind. When we had our first dog, we took her to a dog trainer very early. The trainer told us we had to be the "alpha dog". That sounds really strange, but dogs have "pack mentality" and they will try to control things and be the alpha dog. You just have to let her know that she is not alpha or even beta for that matter. I think the crating might help that as well.
Becky
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mom2mpr
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| Posted: Oct 20 2006 at 7:14am | IP Logged
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We have a 9 month old lab puppy right now and I remember her being just AWFUL around 6 months. She isn't perfect but getting better
I second all the ideas above-crate training is a wonderful tool and we use one. She sleeps in it downstairs in the foyer, when we are away from home and is in it anytime(taking the kids up for baths for instance)I know I will not be aware of what she is doing. I took our pup to an obedience class when she was about 4 months old. It was a little early but I learned a lot that helps me stay the "alpha." I have also heard good things about the books(and TV show, but we don't have TV) the Dog Whisperer.
A walk for 30 minutes each day(I have lost a pound or two)and lot's of short play breaks outside really help. We finally finished installing and training her to an electric fence and that freedom of not having to be on a leash really helped her calm down. Now we need to be out with her because she can get into trouble out there too--but we all like the breaks.
We are still potty training so if it is that type of issue take heart. Maybe when dh is gone there is one less set of eyes and ears to catch her when she has to go?? I was sick a few weeks ago and our pup had many accidents.
Raising a dog WITH kids is hard. My first dog I raised alone as a single person and she was energetic but I had all the time in the world-compared to now!! This one has been a challenge! There have been some VERY hard days--like the days all she does is bite and mouth the kids and they are screaming at her and oy!! Hang in there, it should get better as she gets older and gets less "selfish." I am starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Anne
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: Oct 20 2006 at 7:30am | IP Logged
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Although we don't do this because we have outside-only farm dogs, I also recommend the crate training for an indoor dog. Just be sure to let the dog out to go potty right before bed and again first thing in the am. And you could put an old article of clothing that ds has worn in the crate for comfort.
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
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MacBeth
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| Posted: Oct 20 2006 at 8:40am | IP Logged
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I want to add my vote for crate training. And if the dog is not crated, keep her leashed to the kids... 
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MacBeth in NY
Don's wife since '88; "Mom" to the Fab 4
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hylabrook1
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| Posted: Oct 20 2006 at 9:53am | IP Logged
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I agree with the crate training comments. Also, even though your husband doesn't give her so much attention, it sounds like she has picked up on the way your *pack* works and sees him as *top dog*.
Peace,
Nancy
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Tina P.
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| Posted: Oct 20 2006 at 9:55am | IP Logged
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She's fine during the day. And she's not a big bug in other ways. Our older dog, Chestnut, chewed oodles more than she does and destroyed more stuff (including taking bites out of overstuffed chairs  ). And she's more relaxed than Chestnut was until he was about 8. I'm pretty certain she knows who's boss.
It's only in the wee (no pun intended ) hours of the night that some screw pops loose in her brain and she messes.
We had her in a crate in the attached garage but when she was in it, peeing in it was a NIGHTLY occurrence. It stunk. Literally. That was why we moved the crate to the garage in the first place. Having her in a little enclosure in the house seemed to quell that, for a time. A former trainer, who put in our underground cable "fence" told me that puppies, especially labs, lose their brains every once in a while. That was comforting. Not. So now she's not peeing in the house (as often), but worse!
I *did* see guilt, true contrition even, on her face (perhaps our pastor, who knows of this saga ~ he calls labradors "spazadors" ~ was praying for us) this morning. And instead of wildly flailing tail and legs and a happily lapping tongue greeting us this morning, we had an oversized lap dog. Maybe ... just maybe she's learning.
My husband comes home today from his week away. Hopefully, that was her brain fade and when he comes back she'll snap back into shape. Here's hoping!
Oh, by the way, maybe it's because we have the older dog as well as the electric fence, but we do not even need to go outside with our puppy.
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ALmom
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| Posted: Oct 20 2006 at 11:29am | IP Logged
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When we crate trained, it is very important to have the right size crate. If it is too big, they simply pick a part of it to do business in. Make sure the crate is small enough. We also fed our puppy in the crate and took her out after feeding and playing - as a grown dog, she still eats there and it is her haven. I loved this aspect as I never had a toddler trying to compete with the dog for the dogfood - something that did happen when we dogsat for dogs that did not eat in their crates. She knows it is one place that no one messes with her. So the only thing now is to make sure she doesn't see the nail clippers or she runs to the kennel. We used to crate her when we left the house - but now she is grown and wanders pretty freely in the house.
Another thing to consider is what she is eating by way of table scraps. With toddlers in the house, all kinds of things end up on the floor and certain foods may cause puppy reaction. In our case, we discovered that our dog developed allergies from cheese she was getting from under the 3 yo chair - it was causing her yeast infections in her ears. Ever since we refused to allow her in the kitchen until the table is cleared, wiped and the floor taken care of, the yeast infections disappeared. Just an idea to consider.
Janet
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Wendi DeGrandpr
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| Posted: Oct 20 2006 at 4:48pm | IP Logged
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I will add my two cents for crate training and using the right size crate. Also our trainer told us if the dog messes in the house to tell her NO firmly, take her outside immediately - and do NOT clean up the mess in front of the dog. You are the alpha - it gives the dog a "leadership" possition if you are cleaning up after her. Sounds a little crazy but it worked!
Our dogs love their crates and will sometimes go in for a nap with the door wide open.
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Wendi
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"We can do no great things - only small things with great love." Blessed Mother Teresa
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Sarah
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| Posted: Oct 20 2006 at 5:10pm | IP Logged
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Crate vote here and also it can take several goings in the morning before their completely done. She may still need to go but is let intoo early. The add the pheromone smell and she's ready do it on the floor.
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MarieA
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| Posted: Oct 20 2006 at 9:57pm | IP Logged
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Hi Tina,
Crates for puppies can really help! Also, even if you clean up the mess, unless you use the right product the pups can still smell it and will wet in that spot again. Petsmart or any of the pet stores will carry products, such as Nature's Miracle, that have special enzymes to get rid of all trace of the puddle. A book such as PuppyPerfect by Sarah Hodgson might be just what you need to give you some ideas. Puppies go through stages, so give the crate a try...they really help, and keep smiling.
Marie
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Tina P.
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| Posted: Oct 23 2006 at 12:22am | IP Logged
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I had to laugh when I read that bit about not cleaning up the mess when she's watching me. I shoo her out the door to the tune of "Go potty" before I ever address the mess.
You'll all never guess what happened. My husband (the alpha dog) came home Friday evening. Licorice is presently angelic about doing her business outside. Where's the frustrated emoticon when you need it? She stayed in her crate yesterday for 7 hours while we went to abooksale downtown (have to share that with you in another post) and today for 8 hours with not a single drop of mess. MAJOR FRUSTRATION, here. Her messes during the week were mainly around 3:00 a.m. since no one was sleeping with her and Dad was gone. She's manipulating us! Can you believe that!?!? I thought we were supposed to have the more developed brains! 
I'd send a cute, cute picture of her, but I don't have a website and don't know how to get one.
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Tina, wife to one and mom to 9 + 3 in heaven
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Issues with our puppy ~ HELP!?!?
