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Elizabeth
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In a very sleep-deprived state this morning I posed this question on my blog. It's had lots of hits, but no one is venturing toanswer the question at the end. What is the answer? How do we do this? Let's talk about it here. Anybody?
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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JennGM
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I don't have the answer in my house, mainly because we're a small gathering so far, and my son is little. But we guard very carefully the outside activities that pull us away from a routine and especially dinner together as a family. But as my son gets older, the lure of outside activities in the name of broadening will be hard to balance.
My mother raised 7 children, sometimes as a single parent. She really limited outside activities. She didn't view it as a depravation for us, but as a positive so that we could be together as a family more often...so we would be home for dinner and Daddy's arrival, to share our times together. We had piano lessons once a week, all the kids on one day. Sports were allowed as we were older, but usually only one sport per year (we were mostly girls, so that wasn't a problem). Some of these years were spent in school and others we were all homeschooled.
Sometimes my parents took a hard line when sports or plays conflicted with family activities. Family came first. Holidays required extra work, and it didn't mean just Mom doing all the cleaning and cooking. And just keeping the house running smoothly, keeping the family united, meals and prayers together, sometimes meant saying "no." Outside activities, although helping the child to grow, can a create a "me" attitude.
Looking back, I think they made the right choices, though sometimes it seemed like the meanest thing in the world! 
As we entered into teen years, that was the hardest to control. It's natural for a teen's interests to turn into individual instead of family interests. I now have a son who loves sports and music. We don't know how to maintain a balance and family togetherness as he gets older. I've watched closely the posts from seasoned moms who are doing the sports and music activities with their children to see how they do it.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Family in Feast and Feria
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JennGM
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I guess I'm not really addressing the "wifely duty" part in my post above. Even with one, I still have fatigue problems. My solution isn't perfect...I fail. But I find I need to prepare myself mentally and physically for the evening. Do I fail often? Yes. But I do think that I shouldn't save the dregs for my dh. He deserves a nice welcome home, some time alone, and then some adult company...and that includes bedroom time. I have to admit I'm not a spur-of-the moment kind of person, so we do more planning to make it happen.
And that's where my post above fits in...balancing my outside activities to that I can better in the evening. Little things, like planning my meals, Meals in the slow cooker if I won't be home all day, forcing a naptime or quiet time just to regroup.
One thing I also need to work on is just freshening up before he comes home. I try to have things straightened, dinner on the table, when he walks through the door, but sometimes my appearance is less than acceptable, and my demeanour is less from welcoming.
Sorry that my first answer was so way off.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Family in Feast and Feria
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kristina
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Elizabeth,
We all know that men and women are wired differently. In general, men desire intimacy far more often than women. I remember a listening to a talk on audio by Kimberly Hahn where she states that women tend to desire their husband most during the time she is most fertile. Makes sense to me. Unless I have my facts wrong, the fertility window opens just once per month. Once a month? Not speaking from experience to know what all men think, but my guess is that is not nearly often enough for most men.
I have had this discussion with friends in the past year. I contend that unless I am sick, even if I am tired, I need to "offer it up." I am thankful for my husband. Being united in the act of marriage is part of what I cheerfully promised when I took my marriage vows.
Men are sort of like light switches, where women need time to simmer. My husband understands that I cannot turn on romantic feelings like a switch. As long as he is reasonably patient, intimacy occurs whenever he (or we) desire. Also, I may not be "in the mood," but experience has shown me that I do not have to start out that way to end up realizing that our time together was just as important for me.
Prioritizing marital intimacy is possible whether a couple has many children or not, both work or not. Having dinner on the table and a well-ordered home is certainly important, but those things are not usually absolute prerequisites for romance. It comes down to both spouses putting the needs of the other first. Dying to self. Simply wanting more for your beloved than you do for yourself.
Those are my thoughts on this sticky subject. Please, no throwing tomatoes (or women's magazines  )
Blessings,
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kristina
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JennGM
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kristina wrote:
Prioritizing marital intimacy is possible whether a couple has many children or not, both work or not. Having dinner on the table and a well-ordered home is certainly important, but those things are not usually absolute prerequisites for romance. It comes down to both spouses putting the needs of the other first. Dying to self. Simply wanting more for your beloved than you do for yourself.
Those are my thoughts on this sticky subject. Please, no throwing tomatoes (or women's magazines ) |
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No tomatoes here...I agree completely. I do need to simmer, so that's what I mean by preparing myself mentally when his needs come before mine. Dying to self...dying for your marriage.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Family in Feast and Feria
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Elizabeth
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Oh boy, I wasn't really asking about how to be available for intimacy. I was asking about how to stay at home and resist the busy, busy urge that takes us away from the hearth and makes us too tired and too unavailable to relate.I was asking how to resist the urge to join, join, join. I really think the thought of Dad bumbling around at home with half the kids while Mom is out running carpools is a sad one...
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Lisbet
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Kristina,
No tomatoes or Cosmos from me, only KUDOS!! That summed my thoughts very well on this subject.
Elizabeth, I wonder if yet another twist on this would be to busy buzzing about to 'make the house a home'. We seriously limit outside activities, but I often find I am still really busy and fatigued just keeping up with it all.
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Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
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Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
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Elizabeth
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Lisbet wrote:
Kristina,
No tomatoes or Cosmos from me, only KUDOS!! That summed my thoughts very well on this subject.
Elizabeth, I wonder if yet another twist on this would be to busy buzzing about to 'make the house a home'. We seriously limit outside activities, but I often find I am still really busy and fatigued just keeping up with it all. |
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Of course you are! You have your hands very full. Still, I think the quality of that busyness is different from the out-in-the-world busyness. One seems more of our choosing and the other a duty of our vocation. If it's our vocation, God will grant us the grace. He doesn't ask us to sacrifice our marriage for our children. But he might ask us to sacrifice some "things of the world" for the greater good of marriage and children.
I'm really sleep deprived and better not go further with this now. I look forward to seeing how you all work this out for me while I'm napping  .
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Rachel May
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Elizabeth wrote:
| I was asking about how to stay at home and resist the busy, busy urge that takes us away from the hearth and makes us too tired and too unavailable to relate. I was asking how to resist the urge to join, join, join. |
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I think that the busy, busy urge can simply be a case of still wanting to "have it all" like working moms do, but instead we want our kids to have it all and we equate that with them doing it all.
Personally, I also have a poor work ethic, and I waste my time and energy on things that are not home building. For example, I say that my priorities at the end of a day are a neat house and wife for my husband and a gentle, loving mother for my kids, but if you were a fly on the wall most days, you would think that my true priorities have a lot to do with the computer. When I use self control and make my stated priorities my true ones, I have little problem resisting temptations to let things go out of balance. But once things slip a little, they slide out of control quickly.
That leads to a situation where I can let myself get swept up in the emotions of things and complain to my husband, instead of analytically looking at the real problems to discuss them with my husband. Together we can really look objectively and see the answer clear as day. Then self control and love reassert themselves, and life comes back into balance.
To me, part of what is sad in the scenario you give is that Mom and Dad don't seem to be working together. It is one person's plan with two people doing the work, kwim?
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Rachel
Thomas and Anthony (10), Maria (8), Charles (6), Cecilia (5), James (3), and Joseph (1)
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JennGM
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Lisbet wrote:
| Elizabeth, I wonder if yet another twist on this would be to busy buzzing about to 'make the house a home'. We seriously limit outside activities, but I often find I am still really busy and fatigued just keeping up with it all. |
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I'm tired, too, but it's Love-In-Action, a good fatigue in creating that home for your husband and children.
Rachel May wrote:
| Personally, I also have a poor work ethic, and I waste my time and energy on things that are not home building. |
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Ouch! Too close to home, you just described me to a "T".
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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lapazfarm
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I was that busy, busy Mom for awhile. Something every evening and all weekend long. But I finally decided that my children need outside activities AND a homelife. I got "drastic" and made a new rule limiting them to one outside thing each. Just one. It is working very well so far. Ds is enjoying his Karate and dd loves marching band. I drop off and dh picks up after work. This enables me to get the dinner on the table and run any errands I need as well because I do not need to wait around for them to finish their activities. For dh it is just a couple of quick stops on the way home twice per week. He is happy to do it knowing that it means I can get more done at home.
It seems to be working very well so far as I am doing better than ever at getting things done around here, getting dinner made, and having energy for my dh in the evenings.
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Theresa
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LaPaz Home Learning
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Rebecca
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What about the mom who has eight or nine kids (with the potential for more)? Even with one activity per child, that sure is a lot of running around to do.
I stick with the one activity per child thing also but it still feels like a lot.
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Willa
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Lisbet wrote:
| Elizabeth, I wonder if yet another twist on this would be to busy buzzing about to 'make the house a home'. We seriously limit outside activities, but I often find I am still really busy and fatigued just keeping up with it all. |
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Lisa, you have a lot going on just to look at your signature line! Even doing the basics would probably be quite a daily workout.
This being said, I think it is possible to get so much into the bustling of home activity that it becomes yet another side door into pride or whatever. Isn't that what happened to St Martha? She wasn't trying to have a career or even shuttle kids to coops an hour's drive away, but she was making dinner in a non-loving way.
In my family, we just don't have very many outside the home activities. For many years it was logistically close to impossible, and even now, it's hard for us all to find anything "away-from-home" that's worth not- being- home for, plus spending the money and time and disruption (everyone gets carsick so going somewhere usually means spending some dead time recovering afterwards). The few extra-curricular outside the home activities we do are usually family ones and they are often not developmentally targeted -- for example, we're driving to see ds at college this weekend and a couple of weeks ago my husband took the kids on a "field trip" to a sequoia grove.
I worry about this, of course. Don't we all worry about the choices we make? I don't have an answer. But I thought I'd chime in from the other side of Elizabeth's question -- so my version of the questions is "if you stay basically at home and its environs all day, almost every day, is it sufficient for childrens' and teens' development?" We don't have the hurried lives, the cars going in all different directions, the crammed family calendars -- we still have the tiredness and the wondering if this is really what we should be doing.
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Willa
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stacykay
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Golly, I don't know which way to approach this, ...
What about when it's the wife who wants activities toned down?
We have 6dss, and my dh believes greatly in the importance of physical activity and sports. We also have one ds who shows a definite talent for one sport, in particular. Besides him, the others do have a sport and/or scouts in which they participate (my dh is also a big fan of boy scouts.)
All of this activity keeps me running. And, of course, it all occurs in the evenings and on weekends. I treasure the days when no one has anything going on, and I have time for straightening and setting a special table with a more thought out meal than normal.
I do understand the whole boys being wired differently than girls (and I praise God for those differences!) And the fact it is hard for us women to sometimes understand the male frame of mind.
(I admit for too many years I cringed when sorting through all the sports schedules and tried to mesh them all-well, maybe I still do, a bit, but I am beginning to understand what dh has been driving at for years in regards to the boys and sports.)
I am trying to find a way to embrace this busy sport lifestyle, and somehow not lose focus on the home and the intimacy of marriage. To this end, we generally eat late, so we can all eat together (for family time.) And I make dh go to lunch with me once a month, so we can talk. I try to get dh to walk with me each evening, also, but when sports run late, and therefore dinner, this goes by the wayside.
I have to say the "Simplicitys" have helped me a lot, in putting more thought into the home. I look at the wife in Proverbs and often feel the failure in my own role. I just wish I could get it all together, but, maybe that will be in "another season" of our lives?
Is this all confusing? I hope not!
I am looking forward to what others have to share.
God Bless,
Stacy in MI
wife to dh Frank ('85) with 6dss
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momwise
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We've been so fortunate in our marriage to have this issue work out so well for us. Dh has always started work at 6 or 6:30a.m., so he is home by 4 p.m. most days. It's really too early to have dinner simmering but if it's cool out we try to bake his favorite cookies or make him tea (if it's hot we just give him a beer ).
Like others on this thread we limit the dc to one activity and then try to car pool if it's youth group night or something like that where I don't have to stay.
I have also cut down on late nights out such as mom's meetings, craft classes etc. I figure I'll do it in 10years or in Heaven  . I go to one book club every 6 weeks and socialize with friends during get-togethers in the afternoons or field trips and that is pretty rare.
My dh's well being pretty much depends on a stable and quiet family life. I have to do it for the grace it imparts to him and through him to the children. That's what I'm here for.
Like another poster I figured the time spent as family at home outweighs the advantages of the dc being involved in many activities. It's one of the reasons I homeschool. I struggle so often with whether it's best for them, whether I'm failing them, etc. I just try to come back to God and ask Him if it's o.k. I ask Him to show me today if I need to make changes. And then I just wait on Him in peace. It is a struggle though.
If we have an activity on a weeknight, I make dinner earlier and we still sit down to eat together even if it's just 5p.m. Most of the time I can remember to use the crockpot if I know I'll be gone in the afternoon, so only rarely do we have to rush for Chinese food or something. So when we do...it's more of a treat.
Finally, I thought I'd make another plug for 4H, since that's the activity we most often choose as the whole family can do it together.
My best advice is to constantly lay it before God and consecrate the family to our Blessed Mother each day, then try to listen and obey.
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Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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Alcat
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Who's at home? ME !!! I had planned some bussiness this fall; OK, really, it was more like panicking. There was Tae Kwon Do (did it last year), Boy Scouts (ds8 really wants to do it), T-ball for my 6&4yrolds, dance for my 6yr... Oh the list went on and on (not to mention arts enrichment classes at the charter school).
God know sooooooo much better than me, and He gave me a wonderful husband to keep my fears in check  We are doing NOTHING this fall and probably the same for winter/spring. This season of my life our family is being graced by the gift of a new baby girl- there will be more than enough to keep me, uhh I mean "us" busy
I do feel kinda guilty, but my kids are young and we have time. Ds8 just wants to have friends over to play with. Dd6 would like to do some formal activity but I can probably get away with having some playdates for her too. For us this year school will have to come first, along with some order to our house.
My dh just started working away from the house- like in a real office! So, that means I don't have the help I once did, but I have less disruption to my day by his comming and going, playing and other things. Life changes and we roll along...
When I have older children I know that there will be more business- I dread the thought. I am a homebody. My ds8 did preschool when he was 3yrs- it was so traumatic for me I just couldn't take the constant needs of the school, the socializing with the other moms and the wasted time in the car...
What will happen when my families needs change and we are busy again? I don't know, but, I will guard my home and family time like the precious gift from God that it truly is.
Sorry for the rant  I think I better go lay down
God Bless,
Alison
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SaraP
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I thought yours was a brilliant take on the subject, Elizabeth.
lisbet wrote:
| I wonder if yet another twist on this would be to busy buzzing about to 'make the house a home'. We seriously limit outside activities, but I often find I am still really busy and fatigued just keeping up with it all. |
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I have struggled with this my entire marriage. My DH doesn't notice or care one bit whether the house is clean or organized. He doesn't even care if he has to go searching through the laundry room for his work clothes or eat left-overs out of the fridge when he comes home from work at 10pm. But he cares very much that I am cheerful and flexible and not hung-up on my to-do list when his job keeps him late or a short-notice opportunity to offer hospitality presents itself or all the kids are asleep early and we have a chance for some real couple time.
So there's a balance to be struck. I need a certain level of cleanliness and organization for things to run smoothly during the day, but I can't exactly claim to be serving my family by keeping the bathrooms spotless when that isn't something anyone but me cares about.
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StephanieA
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I deal with this year-by-year. My parents also raised a large family and I was the oldest. I wanted so much to play sports, but my parents wouldn't hear of it after one season of basketball in high school(even though my parents didn't drive me to practice, go to any of my games, and I kept up my chores at home). As soon as I got into college, I played on the college soccer and basketball teams. It was something I REALLY wanted to do, and I worked hard to make both teams as a walk-on.
So when my older boys wanted to swim year round and compete, I said yes, for over 5 years, until it got too crazy and too expensive.
But Elizabeth, if your children are committed to soccer and that's where your heart lies, how can you say no regular practice? It can't happen. Earlier you wrote that your 6th grade son was sometimes gone from the afternoons to 9 at night. Do you have a choice on this? Probably not. Not if he wants to pursue college and post college soccer dreams.
I now try to limit my kids activities until near high school (except music lessons). But this meant that sons #1 and #2 gave up scholarships to college to swim. You can't show up for practice only 2 hours a day and get a full scholarship in swimming. It means 10-12 practices a week, morning and night. Did my family life suffer? You bet it did. So much so, that the swimming had to go...with my sons' dreams also. It hurt, terribly. My second son still has serious regrets as well as my husband. Dh didn't (and still doesn't) fully realize what it was doing to the family dynamics. He enjoyed traveling from state-to-state watching the boys compete. I stayed home those many weekends with everyone else.) How do you take 5 kids to watch 2 other siblings compete when those kids really want to participate also? How do you eat supper every weekday night without your 2 teenage boys? I tried to make it work, but it got to me. And honestly it wasn't doing my oldest ADD son any good either, except that he was excelling in the pool and was continually frustrated with school. He needed the family, relationships, etc. more in the long run than the sport. At least, I hope this is true. I still doubt myself as I see him talking to former team members who have still not broken some of his records and they are now in college competing.
What I have discovered is that if your children are average in sports/music/whatever, then you can control the activities easier. Once they get "good" at something, then teachers and coaches want them there for more and more. Stephen was asked to play orchestra at the college (this means 3 practices a week), Master Class, an hour lesson, Suzuki repetoire, theory lesson, and an ensemble. And this is NOT counting daily practice. If he wanted to major in music, he would need to do this in order to compete for scholarships and to be good enough to make a living at it. He has decided against the major. Suddenly the pressure was lifted, and he is back to practicing only an hour a day, repetoire, and Master Class.
I had visions of family life, us all together working, playing, and enjoying each other. I have compromised my ideals for reality. Life will never be as uncomplicated as it was 10 years ago when the kids were all under 10 and easily satisfied just being outdoors, at home.
Blessings,
Stephanie
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Elizabeth
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We've been talking a lot lately about Patrick and about the effect of so much time training is having on him. We're working on scaling back a bit. It's true that my children are out in the afternoons. It's also true that we limit. They each have to choose one activity. That's one activity period. So, it's soccer or 4H. It's dance or Little Flowers. It's literally one thing. That said, someone commented that with a large family even limiting means you are out a lot. And they are. But we've made some choices with the little ones. We're starting travel soccer later in favor of neighborhood practices. I want to keep them out of the car as much as possible. A neighborhood practice across the street means they can have their hour twice a week and still be home for dinner. Michael trains three times a week but (A) he drives and (B) training starts at 8:30. This doesn't take away from family time at all. And with Mary Beth, she can take four dance classes a week but they have to be in two back-to-back blocks. I'm trading off driving for that one. It really, really helps--even if one or two kids are out in the afternoon--if I can stay home. There is just so much less chaos. And, frankly, afternoon driving exhausts me like nothing else can.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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StephanieA
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As far as one activity per kid.....what does one do with a large family? It just doesn't pan out unless it is only a summer time activity and you give up your summers for it. That, to me, would be ideal. Kids compete in the summer and then when school rolls around, it is back to a "normal" schedule. In reality it doesn't work that way when the kids are teens, and in my opinion, need outside activities far more than an 8 or 10 year old. Plus it doesn't address the problem if the kid is very good at the sport and wants to pursue it year round (which became our dilemna).
Sports teams in the teen years are very competitive. My 16 year was going to try out for a city team, but once we spoke to the coaches, he knew that he would be forever sitting the bench, even though overall he is athletically inclined. By that age, you have "your position" and games are there to be playing very seriously with no errors.
The other option in some states is to play on high school teams that aren't so competitive (vs. city teams or traveling teams) which would be great, but in our state, homeschoolers aren't allowed to play - in any sport, in any orchestra, band, etc. It would be an option I would probably welcome for my kids who really desire an outside activity in high school and can drive themselves to practice. I still would maintain sanity in the home, but the older children could persue an outside activity without total family upheaval.
Blessings,
Stephanie
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Not a rhetorical question
