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Laura
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| Posted: Aug 27 2006 at 6:32pm | IP Logged
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Hello all!
Long time no post!
I would love some sage advice from all of you.
Here is the situation:
A single mom from our church has decided to home school her children (grades 1 and 5) except that she works full time. She has asked the church to help her. A different family would take the children into their home each day of the week.
She has asked me to take Tuesdays.
First, I'm not even sure I can manage this with my family of 7 children!!!
Second, she will be using Seton and I would not have the time to actually teach them. I would be sort of just keeping an eye on them to see that they were actually working.
We use CM and MODG.
and finally, is it even legal in Va? The law seems to be grey on this issue.
I would like to help as I know it is what we the church are called to do for one another and yet I am feeling a bit (okay, very    ) overwhelmed!!
Your opinions please!
I would like to have both sides of the coin if possible..those of you who would jump in and help, why?
and those of you who would feel hesitant and why?
Thanks so much!
Blessings,
Laura (a stranger to the board these past months)
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JMJ,
Laura
wife to Ken and mom to 8 blessings with #9 due July 26,2009
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Martha
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several issues here.
#1 - it may not even be legal for you to do this. Many states define hs-ing as a relative educating their children. If it's not a relative, you may have to be listed as a school to do this legally, especially if she is paying you.
#2 - If she is asking others to do this for free, then they should get to do it their way. It's hard enough dong this when you get chose the materials that work best for you. It can be a nightmare using materials that don't suit YOUR needs best. Espeically when you aren't the primary teacher.
#3 - I would question the wisdom of having a different home/teacher every day of the week. I foresee numerous problems with that, at the least in the area of consistancy and structure.
Is there a catholic school in the area that the church could assist her in getting admitance for her children?
What problems have arisen that led to this plan on her part? Are they having behavior problems in the school that you wil have to deal with? Special learning needs? Or is it just academics? All of these would be major areas of concern to me.
Over all I see many more problems than benefits to this plan and would probably decline.
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Martha
mama to 7 boys & 4 girls
Yes, they're all ours!
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MacBeth
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| Posted: Aug 27 2006 at 6:53pm | IP Logged
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I'm with Martha...but maybe you could offer to take the kids on nature hikes, or offer a story time, or just some simple babysitting?
I am sure the mom thinks this is the best she can do, but maybe if she finds a homeschooling single moms group on Yahoo or something, she can get more input and more ideas.
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God Bless!
MacBeth in NY
Don's wife since '88; "Mom" to the Fab 4
Nature Study
MacBeth's Blog 
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Cay Gibson
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Laura,
If you are already feeling overwhelmed, there's your sign.
I swore off taking the responsibility for the education of another parent's child a long time ago. My duty is to my children first and foremost. Supervising someone else's children would take me away from that.
I have done co-op classes in the past (none this year  ) but the parents have been there and are very involved.
I was recently asked by another mother (whose son goes to ps) if I would tutor her son this year. I had to turn her down but directed her to other (more capable) sources.
I think this is a delicate situation and understand your desire to help her out, Laura. It's a noble thing to want to help another home educating mother and we can all understand the hardship single parents have---it's overwhelming for them as well---but this is a little much for you to take on.
Would I jump in and help? I would in whatever area I could. Why not offer to cook a meal for the family every now and then.
I would say offer to clean her house like once a month or so but, there too, it's taking you out of your home and that's not where God wants you. Perhaps offer for her children to have a playdate with your children every now and then in the evening so the mother can have some personal down-time...but don't neglect your personal down-time in the process. 
Also, remember, homeschooling isn't just about "education." It's a complete lifestyle choice. When a parent doesn't approach it as a "lifestyle" it usually won't stand the test of time.
I will keep this mother and her children in my prayers. And you as well in your discernment.
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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JennGM
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Laura,
Isn't homeschooling about the parent teaching her own child. I understand her problem of needing to work full-time but not being there for her children doesn't fit the "homeschooling" bill.
Is part of her motivation financial reasons? Seems if she's full time, if her kids were in school, after school care would be another thing she has to think of.
Like Cay said, I'll pray for this family. It's a hard thing, but I really don't think you should take on that responsibility. Your reasons are sound....being Mom amd homeschooling for your own 7 children is quite enough.
And switching off every day of the week isn't good for her kids. There will be no stability, no routine....I can't imagine trying to bring in two kids only once a week all day with their own plans and needs. I would think you would have to start from Square 1 each week.
Just my two cents.
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to  & ds1  '03 & ds2  '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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rose gardens
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This plan misses crucial elements for homeschooling: home and parent. If the mother feels called to homeschool her children, maybe she could homeschool them during her hours off and find daycare while she works. (If you wish to offer her daycare, that's a different subject.) Curriculum aside, I'd hesitate to commit on a regular basis to watching someone else's children because it takes away from my primary responsibility to my own children.
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ShawnaB
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I "homeschooled" a highschool cousin of mine 2 years ago for 3 months. It was a very desperate situation...she HAD to get out of public school immediately, but it was too late in the year to enroll anywhere else. Her parents were not able to homeschool her for a number of reasons (its always complicated!).
Anyway, I have a teaching credential, so in CA it is legal for me to tutor a student with no other legal provision. Academically, it was very good for her, and the Independent Study P.S. where she enrolled the next Fall even gave her units for the work we had done together.
However, I must be honest that it was a big sacrifice on my part (which is not necessarily a bad thing), but it was certainly harder than I expected. I was extremely tied-down, and felt terribly responsible to accomplish x-y-&z each day before she went home. I constantly felt that I had to be "on", and of course, this was a child raised in the P.S. system, and sadly was quite unfamiliar with Real Learning. She had to be closely supervised.
It was a totally different experience than homeschooling my own children because it truly is a lifestyle. My dear friend Chari (on this board) wisely told me, quite bluntly, that you cannot homeschool a child who is not your own. You can coop, you can entertain and have enrichment and playdates, but homeschooling happens between a parent and a child. That is exactly what I experienced...school-at-home, or tutoring, with my cousin. Not exactly a bad thing, but not the homeschool experience.
I'm afraid that without doing it herself, this mom cannot "homeschool" her children. But perhaps there are some better alternatives to P.S.?
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Shawna, wife of Jacob, mom to Abraham 8 Amelia 5 and Jillian & Jonathan age 3 years http://www.psalm121family.com
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Victoria in AZ
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Cay Gibson wrote:
| My duty is to my children first and foremost. Supervising someone else's children would take me away from that. |
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Yes, very important.
I'm sorry, but to me, the request sounds bizarre.
Also, I've learned that if a decision is taking me a long time to make, it is because it is not the right thing for me to (or my family) to do.
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Your sister in Christ,
Victoria in AZ
dh Mike 24 yrs; ds Kyle 18; dd Katie 12; and one funny pug
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Marybeth
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I think in time you could come to resent these children and this woman in your life. I don't mean to sound harsh. This has just been my own experience with several friends. I do many favors for several sils~I love my nieces and nephews but it gets to be way too much. I have a very hard time saying no and that is my own fault.
I think having non relatives weekly and being responsible for their education is way too much to ask of anyone. The children will have little or no routine to their days. How is learning going to take place for them? This is not for other parishoners to take on as their responsibility.
Marybeth
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stacykay
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I agree with everything everyone wrote about this lady's request.
I also want to give you a link to Virginia's home school laws by HSLDA. It does say that to homeschool your children, either the parent is doing it, or the tutor needs to be certified to teach.
God Bless you and your family!
Stacy in MI
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lapazfarm
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This plan seems a little (Ok, a lot) on the odd side to me, too.
This will not be homeschooling. It will be babysitting with tutoring.
I wouldn't do it for the many reasons already listed by others. Is she close enough you could brainstorm alternatives with her?
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
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MicheleQ
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Hi Laura,
The whole thing strikes me as a bad idea. I would not think that being at a new house every day would be good for the children in simply a daycare situation, let alone a homeschooling one. That's just too much adjusting day to day for those children and while I do think the mother wants what's best for them it really strikes me as unfair and in this case perhaps more about what she wants and not what really IS best for them. Someone (not necessarily you) needs to have a talk with the mom to help her see that this idea really isn't so great and maybe brainstorm some other ideas with her.
Additionally I think asking other, already homeschooling moms, to essentially teach her kids for her is asking far too much. It really is. I'm not talking about a temporary or emergency situation (friend goes into labor and you take her kids for a few days), that's different but if I am reading what you are writing correctly she is simply taking them out of one school and putting them into others - in this case other people's homes.
While it is true we are called to help one another I think this request goes beyond that. The reality is that you will likely feel such a need to keep these kids on track that your own kids won't get the attention from you that they otherwise would. I don't think it would be intentional but it's bound to happen. Your obligation is to your own children first and if you have any doubts about being able to manage it all then your answer certainly needs to be no.
Legally the idea would not work here in PA. I have no idea about VA.
God bless!
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Michele Quigley
wife to my prince charming and mom of 10 in Lancaster County, PA USA
http://michelequigley.com
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stacykay
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Oh, one other thing-
is this lady widowed, divorced, or is the father of the children in the picture? If he is living and has some sort of custodial arrangement, I think he has a legal right and say as to the children's education? (I'm not an attorney, it just seems reasonable?)
There are so many red flags on this one.
Prayers for you for whenever you speak to her.
God Bless,
Stacy in MI
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Laura
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| Posted: Aug 28 2006 at 11:21am | IP Logged
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Thanks so much for taking the time to respond.
I really needed encouragment and support with this one as I was feeling the peer pressure big time. I sort of felt horrible that I didn't feel this was a good idea when I knew that 3 other families had stepped up to the plate for her. Everything you shared with me were the red flags that were coming to my mind as well, but I needed to hear it from others to confirm what I was thinking!
I e-mailed her telling her that I was sorry, but that I would be unable to help her with this. I suggested that maybe the church could help her to find a retired cirtified teacher to work out of her home or that they could help send her children to Catholic School???
Thanks again for all your help!
Blessings,
Laura
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JMJ,
Laura
wife to Ken and mom to 8 blessings with #9 due July 26,2009
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Martha
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Oh my, I second the father concern?! What a nightmare that could be!
You might mention that it may be illegal for a non-parent to do this in your state unless they are state certified to tutor. Not only does this give you a non-confrontational "out", but it also gives a heads-up to those other 3 moms.
I'm not neccessarily "scared" of CPS knocking on my door, but I wouldn't put myself in a situation that invites them there if I could avoid it, kwim?
Those other 3 moms may know her better or may have other reasons for helping or may just find themselves in a big heap of regret later, so don't feel guilty about not jumping on their bandwagon.
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Martha
mama to 7 boys & 4 girls
Yes, they're all ours!
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ALmom
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I temporarily assisted a relative in a similiar circumstance. However, as a relative I was able to speak frankly with her - and let her know that I was not overseeing her dd education, but providing an adult prescence while her mother worked. I would answer questions as asked, etc. but really was not the teacher. I also knew that this child was not on drugs, or in major trouble, though she was a challenging teen for my relative. The rules at my house were much stricter and I could not afford to have my rules turned upside down. My dh and I discussed what we should do here and my dh set the guidelines. We discussed and made rules of our house very clear before the final decision was made. My relative spoke with the dc about the rules and indicated that she would have to abide by our rules. Our ability to be very frank with one another made it a doable thing. I think there is less obligation with a non-relative and more potential for problems.
Since this was a relative, I was not running into the legal issue of running a daycare without a license. Even if no $ changes hands, you can get into a heap of trouble for watching other children in your own home on a regular basis for more than a few hours, unless it is a relative. A friend of ours got into all kinds of trouble for "running a daycare without a license" when all it really was was a barter system (no money) where one mom watched the other dc for half a day a few days a week in return for something that enabled her to send her dc to the private Catholic school. DHR gave her a certain amount of time to file for approval - along with all kinds of crazy requirements in terms of modifications to her home. When she indicated that she had no desire to run a daycare, they took her to court. It was an awful situation (and was not a homeschooling mother) that she was very thankful to come out of. So what this mom really needs is for adults to sit with her child in the child's own home!
I'm not sure the educational legality is as problematical as the mother is signing her dd up for an accredited correspondence school and presumably would be the one going over the work with the dd. In our state my relative had to find a local church school in addition that would admit her under those circumstances - and convince them that she had a plan for working with her dd - ie she was going to grade and discuss in the evening while dd worked independently during the day. She did get a cover and ps did accept this child's coursework at home when she resumed public school later. We did verify legality issues for ourselves at the time with my relative - and made it clear to my relative that she was to do all communicating with the correspondence school, cover school, etc, and all grading of dd papers, any forms etc. IE she was the teacher, we were simply the adult presence as school age children cannot be left unsupervised during school hours. She would have to find time later when she was home to discuss and go over work with dc. I would certainly answer questions, go over things that I could, but was not the teacher! She did need an adult to be there for her dd. I was doing school with my own and would have limited time to spot check so this child had to be accountable to her mother as far as what was accomplished at my house. This was made clear to my relative.
It was not terrible for us - but only because I was able to be very frank with my relative and did not feel tempted to consider teaching or parenting her my responsibility. This child had wanted to homeschool, so we were providing the child with an opportunity to make it work if she wanted to. If she asked a question, I answered if I could. If she slept on the couch, then I might ask about work, but did not feel obligated to get into a fight over it. This was an older child, perfectly capable of doing her work independently. I also had clearly stated our rules prior to this - ie no leaving the premises during school hours, no disturbance of other people's working, and some clear rules about language, etc. We would attempt this as long as the rules were met and then re-evaluate at the semester. The sleeping on the couch, I would mention it to the child's mom and let her handle it. We never had any of the kinds of trouble with this dc that her mother did. With us she was always polite, respectful and cooperative - she just didn't do any school work. My relative would also ask about the noise level in our home - and yes, it was noisy. I have a lot of dc and many that are toddlers. Her dd basically claimed that she couldn't get anything done at my house because of the noise and with her vision issues, I do not totally doubt her word here either. (She never asked a question and spent most of her time sleeping on the sofa). I had a dd the same age and there may have been some problems develop when my dd saw what this dc got away with, but it only lasted about 3 months before my relative looked for another option. I could not take over the parenting of this child and knew it - there were already too many issues and the child needed her mother to work through these things with her. I would try to support my relative in her duty as I was the godmother. This child, we hope, benefitted from the atmosphere in the home. She participated in our family devotions, I tried to spot check now and then to offer help and encouragement, and we included her in whatever we did. But in the end, she went back to ps (2 different ones) and eventually dropped out of school. She is basically a good kid that has had a hard time of it and I think my dd knew this as well so that the fact that this child got to sleep on our sofa when she should have been doing work was never an issue with my dd even though they often "worked" in the same room.
I sometimes felt quilty and still do that I don't do more. We continue to try and be there for her and her mom. She is basically a good kid, with a heart of gold and I've always felt that way about her. She had a vision problem that we tried to help pay for correcting - but at some point she refused to do any more therapy so only got partial benefit. It is hard not to try to go in and fix things or make them right for her - but I cannot.
I mention all this because, in our situation, we knew the issues we were dealing with, we had a very close knowledge of the family situations and a close communication with the custodial parent, we had more of an obligation as the child was my godchild and a relative. We tried to provide some support for my relative. It sometimes feels selfish to say you just cannot do more becauese I knew some of the limits my relative was facing in trying to do the best she could for this child, but I knew my dh was right when he told me I was barely coping with my own issues with my own dd hating homeschooling (both were about 14 at the time).
By the way, if your dh has expressed any opinions on this at all, I would weigh them very, very heavily. Our dh are often the wisest in keeping us from overextending. Pray for the family, offer ideas for other avenues that may work for them, offer whatever support you are able - but there is nothing wrong in saying no. Sometimes, some of these things are really temptations for us to neglect our duty, disguished as should dos. My experience has been that I am never good at saying no, but my dh will keep me from tons of major mistakes.
Janet
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Leonie
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I am a member of a yahoo email group for mums that work and also homeschool - there are full time workers, part time and small business owners ( like myself) and single mums all on the list.
Maybe joining will give your friend some alternate ideas re child care and homeschooling while working.
work and homeschool email group
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Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
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