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ALmom
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| Posted: July 08 2006 at 12:48pm | IP Logged
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I just saw Elizabeth's post asking for review sights. People have already recommended ones we use, but it did get me to thinking how you handle the bad language thing, especially the use of the Lord's name in vain.
I have children ranging in age from 3 to 18. When our oldest was young, we did an excellent job of screening movies- either fast forwarded or didn't watch. We really didn't watch much at all. By the time she was in highschool, she was ready - and very discerning and sensitive to notice these things. We watched together and she noticed things I didn't because she had not been desensitized to this.
But now we have a wide range of ages - the 3 yo mimic probably shouldn't see anything. I doubt much is healthy for the 6 yo. But then there is the 9 yo and 12 yo boys and 14 yo girl. I'm very uncomfortable with the desensitization that will go on. Every movie we've seen, even those basically really good oldies, are full of taking the Lord's name in vain. Most also have a lower level of attire for the women than I really want the boys exposed to (even in movies that are basically action packed there are the scantily clad women in at least enough scenes to make it hard to fast forward).
This summer we were getting various historical movies to sort of help fill in the gap for our graduated high schooler. My 12 and 14 yo really are interested in the action and history (medal of honor winners, Cuban Missile Crisis) and I know they recognize the problem - and we talk about it. Still I'm a bit uncomfortable with the exposure. It does make you less likely to notice the sin just from hearing it so much.
I'd love to get ideas on how you handle this. (We do not watch these movies until the 9 and under crowd are in bed), but I still worry about all of us.
Janet
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aussieannie
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We find taking Our Lord's name in vain extremely offensive too, so I'll talk about that in particular.
We do not tolerate it, if it is used in the cinema and we have children, we leave. (Saw King Kong with my oldest and HAD to walk out very soon into the movie - SO disappointed with Peter Jackson after his LOTR efforts.)
If I am with friends and the word is said, I say a silent prayer - but I am so tempted to say the prayer OUT LOUD and/or walk out, but I feel that I lack that moral courage.  (If it were seriously continuous I know that I would walk out and leave the friend behind if need be but have not been to a movie where it is that repetative.) I would be interested to know what others do in that particular situation (say a few words of reparation out loud) - I had asked a priest in confession and he seemed to think I should not do it, as it was not necessary to go to that length to make up for it and a silent prayer would do. I just think that surely if it is said out loud, to make full amends the reparation should be also said out loud, so I would love feedback on that.
If it is on a movie at home, if it is ours, we dubb it out. If it is not ours we stop it, especially when it is in the presence of our family altar, holy pictures - the two do not gel!!!
If we happen to hear it, we say a prayer of praise in response or in reparation, "Glory and praise to you, Lord Jesus Christ" or something like that. We explain the children why this IS so offensive.
It would seem, this word or words are a serious part of Hollywood's agenda - and it also conditions society to follow suit in a very effective way.
I find it particularly offensive that they feel that in a period movie that they like to pride themselves on being as accurate as possible with, they have people blaspheming in a time when it would have been extremely rare - a form of propaganda of the worst kind. 
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Katie
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| Posted: July 09 2006 at 5:16am | IP Logged
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Would something like this help? TV Guardian.
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marihalojen
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| Posted: July 09 2006 at 8:14am | IP Logged
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I am going to be perhaps the odd voice out here, but I think that there are times when taking the Lord's Name in vain in a movie is highly appropriate and furthers the story properly.
For instance, last night we watched A&E's P&P again and Lydia runs around the entire movie saying things like 'Lord! I'm completely fagged - bring me wine, Denny.' This is an integral part of her character and sets her apart from the proper society and the people we should be emulating.
Lydia could say something like 'Oh Gooseberries! I'm completely fagged...' but I remember a priest once told me that substituting another word is not good enough, as the thought is still behind it and generally people, though they hear 'Gooseberries' or whatever, still say in their heads 'God'.
He also said that it was a form of prayer (gave me a pamplet on devotion to the Name of Our Lord) and the people who arbitrarily use His Name are probably the ones who need His Attention the most and though they know not what they do, Our Lord is there answering the innermost cry of their souls.
I feel that I should state that we are not watching this with a 4year old but an 11year old and these classic period films are fabulous for sparking discussions on many topics.
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ALmom
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| Posted: July 09 2006 at 12:35pm | IP Logged
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Anne:
Thanks for the reminder. I remember teaching my oldest to pray the Divine Praises quietly everytime we heard Our Lord's name taken in vain. I need to re-introduce that to my youngers and re-establish the habit for myself and the rest of us. We had the Divine Praises memorized at one point (you really begin to find yourself praying constantly - not a bad thing)!
Jennifer: Thanks for your input. I really do appreciate hearing the differing points of view - even if I cannot be comfortable with it.
I think that one of the things I'm realizing is that when I only had same age children, it was fairly easy to stay on top of negative exposure. We did a better job of protecting our home environment (no TV, no computer games, didn't go out to the movies, we even ate better(sugar monster was easily tamed because we didn't have a birthday to celebrate every month and we simply did not bring sugar into the home except on the rarest of occassions). Now I have young adults and toddlers and a lot in between.
My youngers deserve the same diligence on the part of their parents in terms of protecting them - but I have to allow the olders to have things around that are appropriate for them. There are books around that aren't bad books, they just have content unsuitable for a 6 yo but fine for my 18 yo. But being around, the 9 and 12 yo that tend to read everything are bound to come across inappropriate stuff from time to time. I hope we teach them to put things down and come back to it when they are older. I know our 14 yo is very good about this.
I cannot just have things suitable for the 3 and 6 yo in the house - and there is nothing wrong with our oldest seeing an occassional historical movie with a bit of bad language - but somehow we have to find a way to still make sure our youngers are not exposed to things before its time. I also think that I have to not let down my guard - sometimes after working so hard for so long, you just get tired and less careful.
I have been on the computer more myself due to some real wonderful resources like this message board - but because I am on, my children want computer time and Uncles have given them computer games (sort of silly car races - but it turns out it includes shooting other cars off the road) Somehow this just doesn't seem like a very suitable thing for the 3, 6 and 9 yo to play (the 12 yo isn't interested in these - he'd rather try flight simulator)but when older dc are on the computer, the 3 yo has to have a turn and.... When we accepted the game we thought it was just car racing - our dc figured out how to shoot with it. AAAH. Now do we just throw it out or is that overreacting. We already have a 20 minute time limit on the computer.
Our oldest wants to watch some movies now and at 18, it doesn't seem right to deny her that relaxation. We are even turning it to educational advantage in terms of sneaking in some history (not her strong suit). But then we've never had a different bedtime for older and younger - . How much war footage, romance (nothing really offensive), etc. is really appropriate for all these boys. We recognized that we had gotten too lax and have implemented a no movies policy until after the littles are in bed unless it is really something we have screened and deemed appropriate for even the 3 yo (at which point most of the olders aren't interested in it).
I also find myself getting caught doing a quick check. For instance - with Thirteen Days, we checked decent films. It discussed the historical accuracey, said the film portrayed Catholics in a positive light, gave it an A- and basically waxed positive about the film. At the very bottom it did say frequent profanity and threat of nuclear war which is why it was recommended for teens and up. Now I should have known profanity meant Use of the Lord's name in vain - but I wasn't really processing all, dh had reviewed sight and pretty much told me there was some bad language. I thought bad language meant curse words -- and in the context of the stress of the time and the government and military on the brink of nuclear war, that seemed like an appropriate portrayal of the mood. Having a military general call Khrushev a bad name or two would not have been out of character and with only teens watching, not a really major issue. However, if I'd actually looked at the sight and read profanity - AND made the connection that profanity is the misuse of the Lord's name, we probably would have checked it first and found that we couldn't fast forward. Literally, this was the only offensive thing in the movie - BUT it was a constant peppering in every conversation.
While the movies have some benefits for the 12 and over, I am beginning to feel like it just isn't quite right - for any of us. Now, I don't mind the occassional hell for my teens - but profanity seems to be another question, especially when it is so prevalent! There is something different about bringing things into your home by choice and happening to hear it in the grocery. What message are we giving to our dc when we bring in a movie and show it to all of them and from start to finish it is laced with the careless use of Our Lord's name. Granted, this was a film we should have watched first before showing - but since it was a fairly accurate portrayal of the Cuban Missile Crisis and in light of what is happening with N. Korea, we thought it would be a great current events, history discussion starter for the older dc and we honestly missed the indication of profanity on the decent films sight. Has anyone used the TV Guardian for removing profanity as opposed to curse words? I'm just not sure how this would work - but at least we could watch a good war/history movie and not have to hear the use of our Lord's name in vain. Is the name of Our Lord in vain a sin or not? If it is, then why bring it into your home by choice. I'm beginning to think that we should have just turned the movie off and gone to bed - of course couldn't someone make a decent movie about the Cuban Missile Crisis that wasn't quite so bad. I think we need to learn from history and this seems so relevant right now and we had a great discussion around the historical and current events - but I just don't feel right about the misuse of the Lord's name.
Yet, another part of me doesn't want to be a total prude - we are not using the name this way, nor are we really condoning it. We are dealing with older children who certainly are not going to go out copying the language of the film and we do not watch movies all that often in the first place. Yet, when we turn a blind eye to sin, we begin by telling ourselves it really isn't that bad - until we dull our consciences. After a long hiatus from movies, TV or films of any kind, I was a lot more sensitive - noticed these things more. I never even heard or noticed this kind of thing when I was a teen because my exposure had been pretty constant just from being in the world and watching TV (and I didn't even have TV until I was 16), etc. I do not want us to be desensitized nor do I want to turn a blind eye to one of the things that is wrong.
I think that I would have a problem with constant cursing, too, but I'm not as bothered by a few curse words thrown in where it would have been common (ie in the heat of battle, arguements in government over policy decisions, etc.) Am I just being inconsistent here? There is so little reverence left anywhere, that it is easy to think a bit of careless use of Our Lord's name is no big deal - but it is directly against the commandment.
I'm kind of thinking out loud - but I do think there is a difference between some curse words and the direct use of our Lord's name. I really do understand we cannot be total censors all the time and some things are used to portray character and mood and if the watchers are of sufficient maturity, it might not be inappropriate. But I just cannot be at peace with the misuse of Our Lord's name. Somehow that seems to be a different kind of thing. I don't want us to be in the habit of listening to and condoning it in any way. Could anyone who uses TV guardian explain how it works with profanity!
Janet
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marihalojen
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| Posted: July 09 2006 at 1:59pm | IP Logged
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ALmom wrote:
| At the very bottom it did say frequent profanity and threat of nuclear war which is why it was recommended for teens and up. Now I should have known profanity meant Use of the Lord's name in vain - but I wasn't really processing all, dh had reviewed sight and pretty much told me there was some bad language. |
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But that's a good thing! At least it was acknowledging that the use of the Lord's Name in vain is profanity, I don't think most people even bother to question that anymore. After all, it seems like most of the kid movies I've seen lately are littered with gratuitous exclamatory misuses that never create a blip on the movie ratings. So I would say that you have a good site to reference. 
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The Mari Hal-O-Jen
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lapazfarm
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Anne
Perhaps in that situation, if you feel you need to make full ammends, you could offer some small mortification in reparation? That way it would be silent, as your priest advised, and not public? Perhaps your priest was just trying to help guard against pride, which saying the prayer out loud may come off as, even if unintended? And while the silent prayer could be done immediately, the mortification for reparation could even be done later?
I don't know, but just sort of thinking.
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aussieannie
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lapazfarm wrote:
Perhaps in that situation, if you feel you need to make full ammends, you could offer some small mortification in reparation? That way it would be silent, as your priest advised, and not public? Perhaps your priest was just trying to help guard against pride, which saying the prayer out loud may come off as, even if unintended? And while the silent prayer could be done immediately, the mortification for reparation could even be done later?
I don't know, but just sort of thinking. |
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Thanks for the mortification suggestion, I think that as long as it is carries some weight (and mortification obviously does) it could be something of 'equal' value.
Never thought of the pride thing - personally I think you would have to be really out there  (Australian expression - bit like 'wear a lampshade on your head at a party sort-of-thing' sort of personality)- and that is not me  - I really seem to live in mortal fear of that sort of public defence (and it is my natural pride that holds me back!  ) - nevertheless with your good suggestion, I think that I never have to tempt myself to 'throw myself to the lions'  in that way.
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aussieannie
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Funny enough swearing (I don't like it) but I can hear it in a movie and it doesn't bother me a great deal (except when children are present and then the swear words would have graded in my mind, at a lower level, for me to let them to hear it.)
So maybe I am more relaxed than others in that - it is just the joining and the connection of the sacred - the creator of the world and us - Love Itself - with the absolute profane and disrespect, hatred even, that I find so offensive! 
Actually, Our Lady of LaSalette told the children that she was crying (and holding back the hand of God) over this issue (and working Sundays) as it was prevelent in the district. Natural punishments were already being endured by the farmers for this sin - a sin that makes Our Lady cry.
I probably have a high 'tolerence' for violence if it is in it's proper context (The Patriot, LOTR)and some of my children has seen that. Sexual things I won't tolerate and they do NOT see, protection from inappropriate adult themes of that nature and impurity is one of my main reasons for schooling, so shielding them from that one is a given.
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StephanieA
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| Posted: July 10 2006 at 7:30am | IP Logged
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<Yet, another part of me doesn't want to be a total prude - we are not using the name this way, nor are we really condoning it. We are dealing with older children>
Jane,
I could have written your entire post. Ditto here with about everything you said. When my 18 year old was little, we were very careful about sugar which set this kid off like a light. It became part of our family. But I look now and see a different scenario
We are still navigating the movie problem. The girls usually don't want to see the boys' movies, so that is not a super problem. (The oldest girl is 11). I can't stay up late and funtion the next day, so that's not an option. Dh is about nearly clueless about the suitablity of movies, so I regulate what comes in the house. Grandma is close, so I send the girls over with dh to watch the younger group's movies while the older boys watch their movie with me. That said, we rent movies about once a month or less. My brother bought "Black Hawk Down" for my oldest. Less than 1/2 way through, it was turned off and gotten rid of. I won't put up with Our Lord's name in vain. My oldest son is very influenced when it comes to language. This is simply feeding the fire when I knowingly allow this in my home. I am sure at his college friend's and cousin's houses, he sees enough "junk". But I am not comfortable with it here on my watch. OK. I'm a prude. But with my oldest, I can readily see it is not doing him any good at all to be influenced in this manner.
He went over to a sleep-over at my brother's house (who is 3 years younger than my son). His 14 year old cousin was there and this cousin thought he was being cute by using the obscene bird finger. Well, low and behold, my 18 year old did this to my 14 year old a day after the sleep over in a fit of frustration. This never (to my knowledge) was done before and usually I will find this kind of stuff out (small house and 7 kids -ie. not a whole lot of privacy). Now if an almost 19 year old can be influenced by a 14 year old....certainly he can be influenced by movies! Again, every kid is different. My 16 year old would not have acted this way. But I think it lowers the standards none-the-less. Potty language and disrespect abound in kid's movies. If we don't want our kids talking like this, then we can't allow them to view it and expect them not to be influenced.
Immorality (ie. se*ual) and the Lord's Name in Vain are my 2 "no, no's". I have a problem with the new "Pirates of the Carribean" because several times women are said to say they want to "know" a certain guy. I am not comfortable with this. Now if I will actually disallow my two oldest to see the movie with their friends, I am not sure. I have already told the 14 year old that he couldn't go with his cousin...and why. He was satisfied.
To me, this is a border-line movie for older teens only because of the small, but present, se*ual comments. Sometimes I don't know exactly where to draw the line.
But I ask myself, "OK. The Lord is going to hold me accountable for my actions. How am I to know if this particular child will use the graces to overcome temptation after viewing certain things?" I tend to think my kids will overcome temptations because of their Catholic faith and upbringing. But in reality, this is not the case many times. So I ask myself, "Why risk it in my home, on my watch?" Then if I don't shut it off, I really am condoning it and saying that I don't find it THAT offensive.
Blessings,
Stephanie
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StephanieA
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| Posted: July 10 2006 at 9:55am | IP Logged
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I read my last post and maybe I gave the wrong impression. It is not that I don't want my older boys to see ANY immorality. I guess that would cut out much of literature after age 12
My point is that the immorality needs to be presented in the correct way...not in an inviting manner. So many of the movies that are out there show the cool guys making crude comments or engaging in inappropriate behavior. The good guys are using foul language and Our Lord's name in vain. Compare this to the movie "Crime and Punishment" that my 2 older guys recently watched after reading the book. It contains murder, revenge, and prostitution. But the situation of the prostitute was anything but what a teenage girl would be drawn to or want to emmulate. The murder had lasting effect on the protagonist. Basically there were many life lessons to be learned. The immorality wasn't suppose to cause laughter, and it wasn't dismissed or justified. This would be a movie that would not be appropriate for the younger crowd, but would be suitable for the older crowd.
I guess that's my point. If the "bad" guy used Our Lord's name in vain once, then the impression is that this is not acceptable. If the producers overdid it (more than once), then I would turn it off regardless. I am applying this after viewing 1/2 of "Black Hawk Down". It just wan't getting any better. I left it on way too long. If the "cool" guys used our Lord's name in vain, the movie would go off immediately. This isn't behavior that should be emmulated.
I hope I was a bit more clear on how I approach this.
Blessings,
Stephanie
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ALmom
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Thanks, Stephanie! I really think I am at the point where movies with misuse of the Lord's Name will either have to be blipped out or not watched. I have found myself increasingly uncomfortable with the laxity that I think is creeping in.
Yes, I understand exactly where you are coming from on certain things - none of us watch movies with explicit immorality that is glorified. But even a basically decent movie like Sound of Music, or Jane Austin movies have scantily clad women which I do not think are good for my 12 yo boy. Images are burned on the mind and can come back to haunt. I have taught the boys especially, but really all of us - all of us try to guard our eyes so that we become busy with something when a billboard is thrown in your face, or the check-out counter at the grocery. I know how habit forming it can be to idly read whatever. Somehow it seems contrary to all that we have done here, to then show a movie that has the very things in it that we have taught our dc not to look at from the youngest ages. Now, is this saying but not living what we teach? This is a question that keeps coming back to me - Yet I know I can get overboard paranoic about it.
I think one of the problems with movies is that it attempts to be more passive - often lulling the intellect. I find the need to be more careful with movies than with books - though of course I still do not want inappropriate or immoral books either. For instance, The Red Badge of Courage is also full of profanity - and by the main character. It is considered a classic. My oldest read it as part of an assignment with Seton. She hated it because of the profanity and really did not think the character grew at all. She had some very valid points, imo, although that is not the line given by the experts who want you to show how he matured. I didn't read it first - I'd read it years ago in high school when I mimiced everything the teacher said, so I just assumed it was a good book where the guy learns from his mistakes. And of course, there comes a time when you simply cannot pre-read everything your children do - and just have to trust to their own discernment. However, I do find myself very uncomfortable with having assigned something like this (though, that year it really was Seton assigned) but would not have felt nearly as bad if they'd just picked it up from the library. I know that in reading it, you can skim over and not really have the same permanent impression as if you hear the profanity in a movie. So with the book, it is more the fact that it was assigned, not that it was read. Does this sound really dorky?
So, while I know in the case of Thirteen Days, I made a terrible decision, I am still grappling with where the line should be drawn. Zero tolerance is very appealing to me - I like things cut and dry and I do worry about being lulled into the "Oh its not so bad mindset." I also find myself embarraseed by my own ignorance.
I really didn't know the meaning of the word profanity - and had to look it up after the fact (very embarrassed - I certainly know that the use of the Lord's name in vain is wrong - now at least I'll know that that is the same as profanity). Then it was gee - we should have known this and never even shown this film - besides the real embarrassment that we didn't just turn it off. But then what do you do about Classics, Greek Lit., etc. I am a bit uncomfortable with some of that as well - not so much from the kids picking it up and reading it and drawing their own conclusions as from bringing it into my home, setting it out as part of the curriculum or directly encouraging it. Does anyone else go through this everytime school starts? What should we use? Is this really helpful, beneficial to my dc? Sometimes this is part of the appeal of CHC - minimum "safe" stuff assigned (ie has mom's implicit endorsement) - and then everything else is a matter of happenstance that we certainly could read and discuss. But you don't want to make decisions in fear either. Can't you tell - I'm major indecisive!
I really love history so being able to spark discussion of the history was very important to me - and I just didn't do what I should have done. I'd like to watch history movies (and most have at least occassional misuse of the Lord's name - but if we had something like TV Guardian to bleep that out, I think we'd be OK). We are not paying for the movies in any way - simply checking them out of the library.
One thing that did bother me a lot was the comment that the Catholic faith was portrayed in a positive light. There were positive scenes - long lines at the confessional, Mass, etc. But there was this underlying discomfort with Kennedy's mouth and then seeing him together with his family at Mass. I realize that the movie used actual transcripts so this probably was accurate dialogue, and I know that Kennedy was the first to try to seperate his "private" faith from his "public" service in a very, very public way - so he could get elected. But I don't consider this a portrayal of Catholics in a positive light. Not a real huge gripe as I knew enough history to know the background. So another lesson that came home was that even with very good sites to help you out, you do still have to stay on top of things yourself and not be pushed by someone else's very positive review.
I know I have been accused of being overly strict with what we viewed, etc. I stuck to my guns for so long - seemingly alone and I really do think I got worn out. After being told so many times that I was too ...., you begin to wonder and then you start compromising and... now here I am making a horrible decision to keep watching this movie. Anyways, I guess now it is time to move on and try to do better - and think of some reparation for my negligence!
Also, in terms of quiet rather than outloud prayer in atonement for the misuse of the Lord's name - it is generally recommended from the pride point of view. But the other thing I think is the effect it has on others - saying something outloud generally publicly disgraces the other person when they simply may not have known or realized what they were doing - and sometimes you get a defensiveness that then becomes a barrier to God's grace. When done quietly, God's grace works in mysterious ways. Just the moment of silence or hesitation - or the awareness, is noticed by someone open to God's grace - but in a gentle sort of way that may cause that internal embarrassment that spurs change. I know I have been the beneficiary of this on occassion. It also means we don't get in the business of "correcting" someone whom we have no business correcting - ie it does maintain a generous respect for authority, the other individual, etc. Would you want your dc to pray outloud when you accidently slipped? But you sure would notice and change, just seeing the unspoken, unintended but nonverbal body language that just happens when something is noticed. There is the natural shock, but also respect for your position as parent.
Janet
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Victoria in AZ
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| Posted: July 11 2006 at 9:18pm | IP Logged
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ALmom wrote:
People have already recommended ones we use, but it did get me to thinking how you handle the bad language thing, especially the use of the Lord's name in vain.
Janet |
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We have used the Clean Films for years. It is an on-line movie rental company.
http://www.cleanfilms.com/index.phtml
We take out all profanity and other offensive language, including vain or disrespectful references to Deity. We also remove nudity, sexual situations, and extreme or gory violence. Our intent is to edit movies so that they would qualify for a PG rating, which usually means that we will edit out content that the broadcast networks and airlines might leave in when they show the same movie.
(Me again) When we are watching television and hear the Lord's name taken in vain, we cross ourselves and say "Glory and honor to the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ."
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Victoria in AZ
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StephanieA
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| Posted: July 12 2006 at 7:53am | IP Logged
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<instance, The Red Badge of Courage is also full of profanity - and by the main character. It is considered a classic. My oldest read it as part of an assignment with Seton. She hated it because of the profanity and really did not think the character grew at all. She had some very valid points, imo>
Dear Janet,
Yeah!!! Someone that agrees with me on some assigned/Classical books! My boys thought Red Badge of Courage lacked depth and the profanity (and accents) grated on them too. I read Orwell's "1984" and thought, "UHHH? Give this to a 16 year-old? With the explicit sexual content? Ummm. Not here.
I really wanted to go totally classical with my oldest 4 years ago. But after reading some of the selections, I ditched the idea. He wasn't ready to discuss, what I consider, adult literature. Granted, some teens may well be ready to do this.... the advantage of homeschooling. But I wanted to err on the side of caution, because how do you know for sure how this book is really going to affect a child's spiritual and moral development? Too much too soon is another reason I chose homeschooling to begin with. There is too much good literature out there to choose from than to use questionable material for a child who you may suspect isn't ready for it.
Seton also has "The Bridge over San Luis Rey". We weren't doing Seton, but I used some of their reading list when making out reading schedules. I handed this book to my son to read without pre-reading. "Hey, it's on Seton's reading list, right?" He came to me later and said, "Ummm...I think this book has some problems." So I read it. It was pretty decent, BUT it needed discussion. The Church isn't portrayed in a good light and there is sexual immorality in several instances. My son recognized this, but still, this kind of material needs to be discussed WITH the teenager. At the VERY least, the parent should be aware that the child is reading this book that may just be on the edge for that particular child.
My second son has picked up several classical books on his own that contain adult situations (Illiad, Odyssey, and more Greek lit, Plutarch, etc.) that we have on our bookshelves. He seemed so interested in Greek lit that I said I would put it on his schedule this fall. We began reading summaries of several classics. He stopped me eventually and said, "Gosh, sex, adultery, murder, incest...I think I'll wait." It turned him off. In college may be a better time for some of our kids to read these books, especially for us very busy moms with large families who can't possibly discuss every literature book with our kids.
Blessings,
Stephanie
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StephanieA
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| Posted: July 12 2006 at 8:12am | IP Logged
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So with the book, it is more the fact that it was assigned, not that it was read. Does this sound really dorky?
Absolutely not!!! A book that a kid picks up on his own is different. Sort of like a movie that may be a bit on the edge that a teen may see over at a friend's house (or at a relative's house, in our case). When I found that my 16 year old was reading the Illiad, I asked, "Have you read the Odyssey?" His response, "Yes, but it has some parts in there that you may not have wanted me to read. So I quit." OK. Fine. He recognized it. If I really felt something was totally inappropriate regardless, it wouldn't be in my home and this includes some of the classics that I haven't read yet and decided to purchase.
Blessings,
Stephanie
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ALmom
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| Posted: July 12 2006 at 3:18pm | IP Logged
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Stephanie:
I think that is it - when a book is not assigned, it can be put aside as soon as the child discerns material for which they are not yet ready. As an assignment, they feel forced to subject themselves to material not quite appropriate. In any case, I want dc to know that any book assigned or otherwise, (since I am a mom of many and cannot preview every single thing) must be read with their own discernment. I want them to come to me if they feel a need to set it aside so we can discuss it - and substitute something else if needed.
I also know that there are some things - like Shakespeare where the inuendos are so subtle and in such a old language that dc don't pick up on it - which is totally fine with me and one of the reasons I don't like heavily footnoted versions. I don't want someone explaining more of it than the child is ready for. It is so reassuring that I am not the only person in the world that feels this way. I think I am a bit like this because I was a reader as a child - but I read everything indiscriminantly because I just wasn't taught. Images stay with you a long, long time.
I have a lot of ancient stuff this year for world history - and I have a feeling I need to pre-read most of this. How do you guys keep up.
Janet
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StephanieA
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| Posted: July 13 2006 at 7:33am | IP Logged
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<I have a lot of ancient stuff this year for world history - and I have a feeling I need to pre-read most of this. How do you guys keep up.>
I will be schooling 5 this year with a toddler and new baby and a live-in college student (sometimes takes more time than 2 of my others 
But I read books like the "Well-Trained Mind" or sparknotes.com, etc. and get the story line. If I don't find the story line too wonderful, I simply put that one aside for now. I try to read a few books each summer that my teens might read the following year. This summer I am making my way through Dante's Inferno, an Oscar Wilde play, etc. I try to choose a few challenging reads followed by a try and true on a high schoolers reading list (like Pride and Prejudice or The Black Arrow, etc.). Then I might follow that with an adult saint's book. I thought about Augustine's "Confessions" for Stephen this year, but after reading a little of the book, I decided to put it off until his senior year. This will give me until next summer to read it and see if I think he is ready for it then.
I have never read "The Black Arrow" but I know Stevenson well enough to know he isn't going to include on-the-edge stuff. Other authors will offer more challenges. I removed "1984" from our high school list at least for now (although it does have an interesting, thought-provoking theme). I can bring up this important theme in other ways. But "Animal Farm" is a good read, coupled with a study of Russia, Communism, etc.
We always try to do a Shakespeare a semester in high school. I buy Progeny Press study guides for these and a few other books like "Tale of 2 Cities". They are Protestant, but it gives me good questions for discussion. CHC has a few Catholic study guides and we will do one next year with "The Ballad of the White Horse" and Chesterton's "St. Francis" if Hillside Education's study guide is available before I get to Stephen's schedule.
The problem I ran into with my time was when I tried to follow a stricly classical schedule for the reading selections. I couldn't read ALL those books and stay sane with a large family. Plus I found that this excludes so much "fun" reading (ie. Pride and Prejudice). This might be all right for teens who read constantly, but not so good for those who don't.
So I have come across a plan that works for me, plus it motivates me to read some books that otherwise I probably wouldn't have read on my own at this stage of my life.
Blessings,
Stephanie
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