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Sarah
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| Posted: June 14 2006 at 4:36pm | IP Logged
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Would you let your son play baseball with kids who "talk" in the dugout?
Baseball has lots of down time and 5th grade boys can get themselves into all sorts of trouble when not supervised in the dugout.
My son is on a team with kids who all go to one public school and he is the only hs-er, and probably the only Catholic.
Would you try to find another team?
Here's my biggest question: When is it time for you to turn your back on what your BOYS are hearing and hope it doesn't rub off. Does that happen more towards their teen years? I mean, sooner or later they are going to hear it. I'm going to have him stick out this season since dh non-chalantly hangs around the dug-out. But even he has said that from what he is hearing, this is our last year with this team. Our son stands up at the fence and actually watches the game  (novel idea!), and for now appears oblivious to what's being discussed, but my heart is telling me something has to change.
I'm full of these posts lately. He is my oldest and every day is an experiment.
Anyone have any experience with dug-out talk or something similar? Where do you draw the line? He's 10 this summer. . .
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Six boys ages 16, 14, 11, 7, 5, 2 and one girl age 9
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Rebecca
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| Posted: June 14 2006 at 4:52pm | IP Logged
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Sarah, I am wondering the same thing. My son will be ten next month and this season has not been bad but I dread next season after all the public school boys have the reproductive class this next school year. I have a feeling that things may change immensely. So far, I have only been answering the sporadic questions that my ds asks (maybe once a year) about reproduction. I am afraid he will be the only one on the bench who is not informed fully and does not know or use the "lingo" that is associated with it.
I can't imagine switching leagues as there are no "all homeschooling" baseball leagues and if there were, I would probably not search one out.
I will sit back with you, Sarah, and wait for the good ideas and advice of this forum. We are in the same boatand I am anxious to hear people's thoughts.
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MacBeth
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| Posted: June 14 2006 at 5:12pm | IP Logged
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The best teams my kids have been on have been coached by ministers and blue collar workers. The worst are coached by school guidance counselors. 
Sarah, luckily, there is a "no language or inappropriate discussion" policy at the big city league where my kids play. Zero tolerance. One strike, you are out. And the kids, and the parents totally respect that. I would seek out that sort of league, or start one myself. It makes a big difference.
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MacBeth in NY
Don's wife since '88; "Mom" to the Fab 4
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guitarnan
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| Posted: June 14 2006 at 5:19pm | IP Logged
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My son is 14. We've been blessed with a team of really friendly boys, mostly from public school families. My son gets more info from his dad than from anywhere else, which is the way things should be. My son's very good at living up to our expectations as far as watching movies, etc., and he won't watch something he knows will bother him or us. Of course, he hears rough language from time to time (generally from Sailor Dad), but he really hasn't been exposed to much worse than the occasional expletive. The worst thing he has picked up is the spitting habit  . This is our second year with this team, and we had the same good experience last year. They don't even say mean things to each other! (This is not true for at least one other team in the county.)
Our boys, even the ones with girlfriends, really don't discuss those matters much. They're working too hard. At the invitational tournament last weekend, some girls approached our boys with the intention of annoying them by badmouthing our county. Our boys got disgusted and walked away.
I realize that coaches have to be on the field at first and third base while the boys are in the dugout. Our team also has an official scorekeeper, who sits in the dugout doorway, and so do all the other teams. (This is true for all levels of baseball in our county.) While the scorekeeper isn't in charge of maintaining discipline, his/her presence does keep useless chatter down, and my daughter's scorekeeper usually tells the kids (coach pitch) to cheer for their teammates who are batting.
So, our experience is that the boys CAN behave themselves (remember, they're 13-15 years old); it's actually harder at the younger age levels. Also, a good coach will insist that the players watch the game, help their teammates (finding bats, tidying up the helmets) and cheer each other on. If the dugout is really a mess, perhaps the coach isn't doing the best possible job?
My daughter's scorekeeper only had to remind the parents one time to tell their children to follow directions in the dugout. Next game, all was calm. I'd expect 5th grade boys to be able to do the same thing as the younger players. Perhaps this issue just needs to be brought to the coaches' attention?
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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teachingmyown
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| Posted: June 14 2006 at 6:52pm | IP Logged
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Sarah,
Can your husband coach? Or be an assistant? If he can get in the dugout, it will be easier for him to stop the talking before it gets out of hand. Even from outside of the dugout, he can still tell the kids to watch the game, cheer on their teammates, etc. He might get a few looks from other parents who don't pay attention or really care, but oh well.
My son has played for 8 years and I am afraid he has heard alot. Honestly, it is inevitable, but of course you want to hold it off as long as possible. The best you can do is try to head it off and to stay close by so you do hear what is said so that you can do damage control.
Also, try to encourage friendships with the less obnoxious kids (there usually are some) and encourage your son to avoid the "talkers". He probably doesn't like them anyway. My son has never quite "fit in" with most of the players on his teams. He tended to befriend the nicer ones.
Good luck with it all! It is a scary world and even as homeschoolers we are not immune to it all. Just keep praying!
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Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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Magnificat
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| Posted: June 14 2006 at 7:32pm | IP Logged
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I feel like I must chime in, although I am only echoing what othes have said.
My son, age 9 is on a team with very nice boys, I really can't complain. However, in the past if he has heard something...like a word...he has come to me/us to ask what it is or to even just let us know about it. The benefit of this happening is that it has always opened up a dialogue for us. Also, as far as reproduction goes, we have talked about how holy reproduction is as well as how women are to be treated with respect (this came up during a discussion on why we were not going to see one of the Star Wars movies). Anyway, I don't know if I have said anything useful, but I'm certainly in the same boat and every year I feel like I have to sit closer and closer to the dugout...
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cathhomeschool
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| Posted: June 15 2006 at 8:39am | IP Logged
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Sarah wrote:
| Here's my biggest question: When is it time for you to turn your back on what your BOYS are hearing and hope it doesn't rub off. Does that happen more towards their teen years? I mean, sooner or later they are going to hear it. |
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I agree with what everyone has said, but want to specifically address this question. I don't think that we should ever turn our backs on what our children are hearing and hope for the best. Yes, we must let go and can't always shelter them (and shouldn't try. At some point they must experience some of the real world -- better while under our roof.), but I think that we should, to the best of our ability, be aware of what goes on. My older two are on swim team with children from 5 to 18 years and many different backgrounds. We are blessed to be in a group that is fairly decent. To my knowledge, we don't have any foul mouthed kids or coaches on the team. Still, I do remind them that they should not participate in conversations that make them uncomfortable or seem inappropriate. I encourage them to come to me if ever they are unsure about something they heard, and tell them that we can feel uncomfortable in a situation even if we don't know exactly why. I consider that to be a "red flag" raised by our Guardian Angels as a warning/protection to us.
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Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
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ALmom
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| Posted: June 15 2006 at 12:22pm | IP Logged
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I ditto Janette. Be sure that you have been training your boys on how to be guardians of their senses. From little bitty, we did things like distract dc from the magazines at checkout counters, etc. If a child was staring at something on a billboard on a highway sign or something, we'd remind them - guard your eyes - get busy with something constructive. If something seems funny, best move away. This is my big beef about movies and TV - the exposure to the use of the Lords Name in vain is constant, so our images of poorly clad females. I really believe this is harmful!
In baseball, they are there to learn ball, so spending his time at the fence watching the game and learning from it and cheering on his teammates is a good sign. We taught our daughter to move away from questionable conversation - shift to the other side of the dugout if necessary. We also told her she didn't have to listen in to the conversation to figure it out - her own discomfort was a good sign, also anything she would be embarrassed for mom and dad to hear (or where kids were trying to keep from parents) was a good sign that it was bad. I didn't want her to think she had to figure out the conversation before acting. In this situation, acting immediately is what avoids harm and sin! Our sons quit ball before this became an issue, but we taught them some of the same rules - and even at the younger ages, they did have to exercise this skill.
A lot depends on how bad the situation is, what is being said, and the extent to which your son can truely avoid hearing it. If he can move to the fence to the opposite end of the dugout and block out the conversations, then obviously he is practicing a virtue in the process without being harmed.
If he cannot avoid the conversations by removing himself somewhat, then there is a different situation. Prudential judgement as to the near occasion of sin is required and in my opinion, action has to be taken by someone based on the disgust your dh expressed at what he was hearing.
I know one young man who was able to stop the bad talk among playmates in a neighborhood simply because his mom had a rule that he had to leave if the talk got bad and he got tired of coming and going all the time and just told the kids he wasn't coming back unless they stopped the talk. They stopped the talk at least for him (think he was about 10 at the time).
Dad may be able to volunteer to be dugout dad and then direct the attention and stuff to the game. Ie ask questions about plays, analyze them etc. so that there isn't time for the gutter talk. If that isn't possible, then someone may have to confront the coach and/or boys about the situation. I do not think that we can leave our children in situations with no way to exercise guardianship. At some point it might be necessary to find a different team or place to play! There are places and events that we avoid as adults because of the known behaviour of those that would be there even though we miss out on some of the networking in the process. This is all a part of judging and exercising guardianship of esp. our eyes, ears and tongue!
Again, you all must exercise prudential judgement. Is the conversation so unavoidable that it is filling your son's mind with poison even though he may not have sinned in the sense that he is exercising every power available to him to avoid the situation. Is it an annoyance, that he moves away from and is not so blatant as to distract him from the game? Garbage in leaves an impression that can never be entirely erased and then becomes a constant source of temptation in the future!
Janet
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Sarah
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| Posted: June 15 2006 at 11:18pm | IP Logged
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Thus far he has not picked up on it because he is totally into the game. Luckily, he's kind of in his own world of watching the game or sunflower seeds  . I think its over his head. My dh cannot volunteer because we have another boy playing at a younger age and we divide up the time.
However, when the conversation shifts, dh distracts him, or tells the other kids to quit it.
The scorekeeper doesn't sit in the dug-out and its HIS teenage son and friends that instigate the younger boys with tendencies for talk. The coach is too weak to kick those older brothers out of the dug-out.
I feel anxious at every game. I've got to find something different!
We don't fit in with the regular crowd of parents anyway because we have 5 kids, so we sit at the dugout entrance, and it just looks as though we couldn't fit our stroller over by the other parents.
I didn't even think that next year they will have had the repro. talk. That's enough info for me to find something better. Perhaps we have something like MacBeth suggested.
Thanks everyone!
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Six boys ages 16, 14, 11, 7, 5, 2 and one girl age 9
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Poison in the dugout
