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mamaslearning
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| Posted: Feb 21 2014 at 4:13pm | IP Logged
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Would anybody care to scoop me up, give me a hug, and feed my need for validation? Seriously, you would think that after four years of home educating I would be more grounded and able to discern our path! I am so torn, yet again, on what to do for our learning. I'm okay with the little ones, but the oldest always boggles me since she is carving out new territory each year. Each year is the same old battle of - Do I create my own, hobbled together path? Do I use a boxed curriculum? Which method do I pursue?
When will I find a path that "speaks to me"? Something I can breathe in and feel at home? I can't commit to anything! I love, love, love the thought of living books, but I also love classical, and workbooks, and unit studies, and etc. I can see value in everything, but cannot commit to any of them. By not committing, I keep jumping around and our learning feels disjointed.
I'm just frustrated that it's no easier now than it was four years ago when we started. Isn't it supposed to get easier? Shouldn't I have matured in my role as a home educator and have more peace in my decisions? I know there will always be worries, but I'm overwhelmed with the choices and the "right thing" to do.
Hmm, I think I'm still a bit frustrated that I 'have' to do this. I say 'have to' because the public school is not an option, for us, at this point and private school is way above our means (even if we could get assistance, we couldn't keep up with all the extra fees and hidden costs). I honestly wanted our children to go to Catholic school. It was what I always expected and assumed would happen, and now I'm struggling with what I perceive as a cross to bear. Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy the kids at home. We have fun and it is a great environment for them to grow and learn as individuals without the pressure of peers, but I still long for the dream version of Catholic school.
I definitely need to take this to Him and ask for peace! Thanks for listening!
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Lara
DD 11, DS 8, DS 6, DS 4
St. Francis de Sales Homeschool
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SeaStar
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| Posted: Feb 21 2014 at 5:18pm | IP Logged
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Lara,
Let me say up front that homeschooling is hard!
Yep- it just is. And so if you feel disjointed, confused and worn out, that is pretty normal. Hard things tend to make you feel that way. And I have yet to meet anyone who homeschools- whether a novice or a veteran of many years- who has ever said: Homeschooling- piece of cake!
Fact 1: Homeschooling is hard
Fact 2: The myriad of choices available are delightful and yet mind boggling
Fact 3: Schools are not what they were in the past. Social media, bullying, drug, gangs, shootings- not happening at schools a hundred years ago like they are now
Fact 4: You can do this!!You can do this!! You really can!
Think of the things that really work for your family, and build on those.
If something doesn't work, ditch it- sooner rather than later.
Pray- pray like mad!! Ask God for direction. Pray over your school books (I am not kidding here). God will show you the way.
We all have doubts and plenty of "one of those days" 
You are not alone, my friend.
But keep your chin up! You are doing very important work, and no one expects perfection
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Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
SQUILT Music Appreciation
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Feb 21 2014 at 5:48pm | IP Logged
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hmmm can I suggest stop looking at how classic is set up or how unit studies are set up or anything like that.
Do NOT worry about using a single method. At all. Just don't even think about it.
Now look at your daughter. Look at what has clicked for her. Maybe it was that math workbook you used that just made it so much easier for her to learn math. Maybe it was that unit study that let you combine literature and history and language arts. Maybe it was sitting down with living books to learn about science.
Whatever it was.. write it down. Each thing that your daughter either loved or fought you less when it was time to do it or retained the information really well even if she claimed to hate it.
Now you've got a list of the things that you percieved worked best for your daughter. All of them. So maybe you have two math programs listed.
So maybe you ask your daughter.. which of these did you like most? Or maybe you ask you husband.. did this past year seem to go better for math or the year before?
Get some more info.
Then pare down that list.. figure out what seemed to work. Then you have the structure for picking the next year, based on what worked instead of worrying about "doing the right thing the right way".
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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mamaslearning
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| Posted: Feb 21 2014 at 9:03pm | IP Logged
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Thanks! I just didn't realize how hard this was going to be all-the-time! Time for some extra prayers and some adoration!
Jodie, the thing is my oldest is starting to rebel a bit with schoolwork. We had a long discussion again today about how she doesn't want to do anything, it's too hard, what's the point, etc. She's a great kid and will do what I ask of her, but she does balk at anything that does not come easy. And, if she doesn't get it right the first time, it is like pulling teeth to get her to revisit the lesson. She is so scared of failing that she doesn't even want to try, no matter how much I encourage her. If she fails, she just writes it off and doesn't want to go back and try again, she'd rather move on and not learn it. It is very frustrating.
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Lara
DD 11, DS 8, DS 6, DS 4
St. Francis de Sales Homeschool
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SeaStar
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| Posted: Feb 22 2014 at 6:28am | IP Logged
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Ah, yes- the easily frustrated child. We have that here, too. Crying, hiding under the table, and my personal favorite: in the name blank of his math sheets ds writes his name and adds after it: "who hates math".
It is very draining. Ds is drama all the way.
We work on it, though. We talk about what you need to do and say when you don't understand something- how to get help before you get mad.
Also- dh and I frequently remind him that crying and fussing because he doesn't *want* to do something has never worked and is highly unlikely to work in the future at our house.
I do have to remind my dc often that the purpose of learning is to *learn*. If they already knew everything about grammar and were pros at it, we wouldn't have to learn it, would we?
Lastly, I try to use real life examples of why learning is important. A friend of mine teaches high school history, and recently gave a test that not one of the juniors/seniors passed. Why? because most of them can't read. The Bama Pie Company (supplier to Subway, MacDonalds, etc) had to build a factory in Poland because it couldn't find enough people in OKlahoma to hire who could read and do basic math.
True stories like these, both terrifying and fascinating, generate a lot of lively discussion at my house. I think they really do help my dc see why an education is vitally important.
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Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
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SallyT
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It is hard and tiring sometimes. We'll be finishing our 11th year here, and I feel really tired. Sometimes I ask myself, "Why, again, was I so sure I wanted to do this? Why, again, did I think this was best for my family? Why? Why?" I try to recapture in my imagination earlier moments when I was excited about homeschooling, and . . . can't. Fortunately "good" does not depend on my emotional state, but still, the thing about being in the trench with the soldiers is that you can't see the whole lay of the land. All you see are the sides of the trench, and this can be seriously demoralizing. I often struggle to remember that the rest of the landscape is out there!
Re your oldest: Ten is an age of pushback. Girls, especially, are on the brink of puberty -- my oldest actually got her period at ten, and I'm watching my current ten-year-old to see what happens with her, but my expectation is that she'll go earlier rather than later. Already she's like a little teenager, probably more so than her older sister was at this age, probably BECAUSE she has this older sister (who's just turned 20, so I can't say she's a teenaged sister any more!). Anyway, part and parcel of all that is, for many girls, heightened, hormonally-fueled drama, plus a desire to differentiate that emerging young-woman self from Mom. Suddenly, among other things, I'm getting a lot of un-asked-for evaluation of my clothing choices . . . thanks, honey! Glad to appear in public with you, too!
All of this calls for a delicate balance. On the one hand, the best thing you can do is listen and be sympathetic. She's going to need to know you're on her side through the turbulence of adolescence, which in my experience thus far is a lot worse from 9-12 than it is in the actual teenage years.
On the other hand, you don't want to give that turbulence *too* much power. Pre-teen girls like to push the envelope (and change the goalposts, so that just when you think you've got the game, it changes). BUT they also have an intrinsic need, which they'll never admit to, for you not to let them move the universe around to suit them. That kind of power is scary and dislocating -- "You mean, I can just -- change the order of everything? Nobody else is watching the boundaries?"
How this plays out with schoolwork is that you listen sympathetically, and you talk, and you observe. You're hearing her gripes about whatever it is, but at the same time, you're watching to see whether something is really not right, or whether the gripes are just pushback. For example, I have tweaked our math -- we were doing a combination of a couple of things, and one element consistently seemed to work better than the other. It wasn't a question of its being easier -- my 10-year-old daughter just seemed to cope better with the format of this particular thing. So when she said, "Can I just do this," I was willing to let her.
We also negotiate *some* about schoolwork content. Not much -- Charlotte Mason writes that a child's preferences should not dictate what is studied, and I really think this is the better part of wisdom. I think what she actually says is that "interest" should not determine a course of study. This is wise, because a child's interests fluctuate so wildly, especially at this age. And "interest" does so quickly become "what I feel like today." Last week marine biology was a passion, so you bought the book -- and now it just seems like a chore, moan moan, why can't I study roly-polies instead?
On the other hand, I do listen and include things that happen to interest particular children. It's easy enough to pick up cheap or free Kindle books on, say, geology, if a child likes geology, and to slot one in in the place of another science book that is either finished or is not going so well. I offer choices for literature reading, too, and I'm often pretty flexible in what I'm willing to consider literature, as long as there's a good measure of what I think is really good (so, okay, this month you can read Trixie Belden, but next month you HAVE to read Anne of Green Gables!). I also make our Mondays and Fridays "free-choice reading" days, and schedule regular coursework Tuesday-Wednesday-Thursday, which are known in our house as "the long days," "long" meaning that school might last three hours.
I also minimize busywork -- no workbooks, no structured assignments imposed by me. Our days basically go: copywork, math, read read read read read, lunch, converse, read aloud, free time/masterly inactivity, dinner, read aloud, bed.
My kids don't love everything I give them to do, and we do have griping, complaining, and perfectionist meltdowns from time to time. The challenge for me (and it is a challenge) is to stay calm and focused. I *try* not to get too sucked into power struggles or emotions over schoolwork. I *try* to impose calm consequences for real defiance (and to get kids to take breaks and come back in five or ten when the "defiance" is really just a perfectionist meltdown -- sometimes it's hard just to get a melting kid to get up from the table and go upstairs for a break). I also keep the most meltdown-provoking lessons short. Better to do one challenging math problem -- just one -- per day than to put up a mental block over a whole page. (I like this about both Life of Fred and MEP, by the way -- exercises are in small increments, and I can do just a piece of an MEP lesson a day if needed). At this age I often think in terms of "touching" a hard subject daily, rather than in terms of larger goals.
Speaking of goals, people (including me) so often put "to love learning" as one of their main educational objectives, and while I think, "Yeah, ideally," I've also come to think that having this as an actual goal is probably a mistake. I mean, yes -- you hope they do ultimately love learning! But so often along the way they don't -- at least, they don't love everything all the time, and they might not love anything for periods of time -- and I don't think that this means that you've failed. It just means that "to love learning" isn't a realistic goal, because you can't control people's feelings, and you probably shouldn't assign them too much power and importance. Sometimes "just do it" is a legitimate goal.
A possibly encouraging example: when my 20-year-old was a homeschooled high-schooler, I made her read the great epics of the Western Tradition, including Beowulf -- we spent a lot of time on the Anglo-Saxons, because I love the Anglo-Saxons. And she hated them. Moan moan moan. Oh, these dreary people and their dreary outlook! Moan moan moan. So, now she's in college, and what does she want to go to grad school to do? Keep on with Old English and Anglo-Saxon literature. It's the love of her life. I just have to resist the impulse to say, obnoxiously, "Oh, those dreary people and their dreary outlook?" (on the other hand, she never did love to learn math . . . )
So, you never know! Hang in there! That's what I have to tell myself all the time.
Sally
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SeaStar
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| Posted: Feb 22 2014 at 10:59am | IP Logged
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Sally- You touched on a very interesting point for me.
I also find that it can be very, very hard to get the melting perfectionist child to take a break. This is particularly hard since a break goes such a long way in helping.
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Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
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SallyT
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| Posted: Feb 22 2014 at 11:22am | IP Logged
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I know! And so often they're so locked in resistance mode that even "why don't you go upstairs for ten minutes" sounds like a directive to be resisted.
Sally
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SeaStar
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| Posted: Feb 22 2014 at 1:39pm | IP Logged
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Yes- it can sound like a punishment more than a breather, and for a perfectionist who already feels like he failed at something- which put him into such an agitated state to begin with- it can feel like heaping coals on the fire. 
I haven't figured it all out yet, but I do know that if ds does take a break, he often come back as a new man.
I also think Jenn Miller made a good point in another thread- saying her ds sometimes cries during math not because he dislikes math, but because he feels chained to it. I see that with my ds, too.
Math is always, always there. It is never skipped or taken out of the rotation for a term. And HS moms tend to take math very. seriously.
So a perceived failure here seems HUGE to both student and teacher.
Mr. Who Hates Math spent an hour the other night drawing graphs and plotting coordinates for different things he dreamed up. No one forced him to do that. To me, that is a a good sign. Does he really hate math, or does he just get frustrated that math is always there... the same way laundry and cleaning bathrooms makes me Mrs. Who Hates Housework?
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Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
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SallyT
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| Posted: Feb 22 2014 at 3:22pm | IP Logged
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That is an excellent point -- I too quickly become Mrs. Who Hates Housework AND Cooking! ("What? You people want to eat AGAIN?").
It's hard to know what to do about the always-there-ness of math. On the one hand, it seems like such a use-or-lose subject, and the knock-on effect of losing it for any period of time is not insignificant.
On the other hand, yeah. Unlike other things, it seems to have a lot less flex built in -- we can skip a formal history day but make up for it in what seems like fun reading, with living books. How can you do that with math, which to me just seems to NEED to be at least somewhat schematic, with practice . . . I know my kids do mathy things on their own, playing Minecraft, notably, and they've initiated conversations about how it's mathy. But how's that going to help us be ready for algebra and beyond? That's what I ask. I don't have enough of a math brain to get that kind of vision.
My instinct, though, is to feel that math is like learning a musical instrument -- an instrument you have to learn whether you have an aptitude for that instrument or not. To learn to play it, you have to practice daily -- inspiration to play a concerto isn't just going to strike you out of the clouds (which is true of any craft. It's for sure true of poetry and fiction-writing). So you practice and practice and practice, with only an occasional day off for refreshment, if you want to get anywhere, which you sort of have to want to some degree, because only if you can play this instrument will the powers that be let you get on with the rest of your life.
I do think less really can be more, though. My own Mr. Who Hates Math can take hours to get through a row of problems on a workbook page -- or we can do four problems together at the end of a Life of Fred chapter, in about twenty minutes, which feels insubstantial, but day after day, it does add up to some fairly significant math study. Ditto doing one exercise in the MEP practice book for my daughter -- it seems like not a lot, but day after day after day, that also adds up.
It also helps, mostly, that we do the math together -- it's not like a lesson and then they're left to do independent practice. Sometimes, though, my daughter and I butt heads because a) she needs help and b) she doesn't want help, because it feels like me taking over her process, even if she wasn't that invested in the process to begin with and sort of wanted me to take it over (which is all complicated by the fact that I'm not taking it over nearly as much as she sort of wanted me to, because my position is that it's HER math lesson, after all, not mine. But at the same time, in her view, I'm being too bossy or directive. So I'm simultaneously taking it over too much and not enough, and if this is making you go cross-eyed, you begin to see how some of these lessons go. It's amazing that I have any hair left to pull out).
This almost never happens with either of my sons, and I'm convinced it's a mother-daughter thing. "Mommy, I need you! Go away!" I do lose my patience sometimes over this -- and sometimes it seems as though I really need to say, "Stop being hard-headed and just ACCEPT HELP for five minutes."
OK, well, that was kind of a rant. And I don't know if it helps Lara with her oldest, but sometimes just knowing that other people are tearing their hair over these things can at least make it all seem less lonely. :)
Sally
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LLMom
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I was this way for so many years. Everything looked so appealing, and my perfectionist tendencies made it so much harder because I had to do the best thing in my mind. I did so much flip flopping of methods and curriculum. Reading blogs and homeschool boards did tend to make it worse because you see and hear about all of the latest and greatest stuff everyone is trying. I had to take a step back from all of that for a while. My anxiety made it worse. Complete burnout from homeschooling and mothering changed it all. I developed and I don't care attitude. The major life upheavel made me realize that it doesn't matter what method or curriculum I choose or even if I homeschool. I just need to be a mom to my children, teach them to love God and the rest doesn't matter so much. I was as serious as a heart attack. I have learned to chill and not worry so much.
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Lisa
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mamaslearning
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| Posted: Feb 24 2014 at 2:28pm | IP Logged
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Oh yes Sally, hearing all of this discussion really helps!  Just having some idea of what lies ahead with a preteen is helpful. Plus, knowing that I'm not alone is a big hug that I needed!
Sally, something you said made me pause:
"Speaking of goals, people (including me) so often put "to love learning" as one of their main educational objectives, and while I think, "Yeah, ideally," I've also come to think that having this as an actual goal is probably a mistake. I mean, yes -- you hope they do ultimately love learning! But so often along the way they don't -- at least, they don't love everything all the time, and they might not love anything for periods of time -- and I don't think that this means that you've failed. It just means that "to love learning" isn't a realistic goal, because you can't control people's feelings, and you probably shouldn't assign them too much power and importance. Sometimes "just do it" is a legitimate goal. "
This is what's rolling around my life right now. I do want them to love to learn for the sake of learning (and not because I said to do it), but right now nobody wants to learn. I LOVE to learn new things and I always rave about anything new that comes my way to ensure my kids know that learning is a lifelong endeavor. There is no point at which you will know it all, but now that I reflect on this, I am wondering if they are overwhelmed by the prospect of never being finished? Like you said about the laundry above, it is never finished and (for me at least) it is a bane to my life as a mother.
I also get caught up in the failure loop a lot.  Lisa, that's where I am right now. I am swinging from the completely serious mom to an I-don't-care-because-I-am-so-burnt-out mom. Unfortunately, I think I am failing at all aspects right now and need to reign back into to just being Mom. We are completely drifting and need a new map.
Thankfully, I have had some revelations and some tips from my DH (whom spoke with my oldest recently). I was able to come up with our next quarter's work laid out in a way that made it semi-independent for her: a weekly setup showing how many lessons in each subject needs to be completed and a page for each subject listing all the lessons for the quarter. She is responding very well to this setup today since it gives her some control over her week. If she wants to do all the phonics lessons in one day, then she can! It gives her some concrete visual stopping points, which is what she needed apparently! Wow, discovering what works is such a hard process.
Sally, thanks also for putting into words that we can't control someone's feelings. I know this, but often need to be reminded that even if she looks like me, talks like me, and acts like me most of the time she is still her own person and has very different feelings.
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Lara
DD 11, DS 8, DS 6, DS 4
St. Francis de Sales Homeschool
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JodieLyn
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I've had bad internet connections for days.. glad you're getting help Lara.
but also, your kids are young. Playing is still learning for these kids, just something to keep in mind.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
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Angie Mc
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I hope you find encouragement here: Family life is difficult
And honey, if you are wanting a Catholic brick and mortar school experience for your family, then make it happen. Get creative, be patient, and go for it But if what you want is really a dream, then let it go and dream new dreams, those that will fill your days with joy.
Love,
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Angie Mc
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LLMom
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mamaslearning wrote:
Sally, something you said made me pause:
"Speaking of goals, people (including me) so often put "to love learning" as one of their main educational objectives, and while I think, "Yeah, ideally," I've also come to think that having this as an actual goal is probably a mistake. I mean, yes -- you hope they do ultimately love learning! But so often along the way they don't -- at least, they don't love everything all the time, and they might not love anything for periods of time -- and I don't think that this means that you've failed. It just means that "to love learning" isn't a realistic goal, because you can't control people's feelings, and you probably shouldn't assign them too much power and importance. Sometimes "just do it" is a legitimate goal. "
This is what's rolling around my life right now. I do want them to love to learn for the sake of learning (and not because I said to do it), but right now nobody wants to learn. I LOVE to learn new things and I always rave about anything new that comes my way to ensure my kids know that learning is a lifelong endeavor. There is no point at which you will know it all, but now that I reflect on this, I am wondering if they are overwhelmed by the prospect of never being finished? Like you said about the laundry above, it is never finished and (for me at least) it is a bane to my life as a mother.
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I wanted to touch on this. I always wanted love of learning to be a goal. I have come to the conclusion that no matter what I do, they won't always love everything. When I was homeschooling my 10 year old last fall, I tried to make grammar fun by playing games. He said he just wanted to get done (so use a workbook) not play a grammar game. Like most things, we will like some of it, but some things we just have to slog through.
As Angie said, if you want Catholic school to happen, there are ways. I now have 4 in Catholic school on one teacher's salary. PM me if you want ideas.
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mamaslearning
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Thanks Anige, I will check out your post!
I really do need to let this go since we have exhausted many avenues (except me going back to work, which isn't a desirable option right now), but some dreams die hard. The largest component of this is my sense of entitlement and pride. Oh how wicked these two vices are in my life  . I have been brought to my knees a few times, but I still can't seem to learn my lesson.
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Lara
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Erica Sanchez
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Just let it go, Lara! :)
I can't totally relate because I have no desire to put my kids in school. But, I have let go of the perfect homeschool or trying to duplicate what some other mom's homeschool looks like. The things my family chooses to do and be involved in and the way we go about the education part will be different (and probably subpar), but it doesn't mean it isn't good or what God intends for us. We choose to be involved in many things and when the babies kept coming I ended up doing more workbooks than I would have liked. That is just one example. I think about it, but I try not to let is bother me. I focus on the hundred other amazing things that happen during the day just because we are together.
Lara, your children are young, but these days and years will go very quickly! Cherish this time together because you do not know what tomorrow will bring. This past year brought a near-drowning of one son, one daughter off to college and now another daughter considering very seriously a cloistered vocation. Believe me when I say, I am cherishing the huge amounts of time I have been able to spend with my children simply because they are home all day. Cash and I had great school experiences and I can understand that some of the things that Catholic schools offer would be missed. I hope that you can find peace (and ultimately great joy) in homeschooling your children. This forum, as you know, is the perfect place to be for encouragement and inspiration.
You will be in my thoughts and prayers as we all go about this great gift of schooling our children at home.
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Have a beautiful and fun day!
Erica in San Diego
(dh)Cash, Emily, Grace, Nicholas, Isabella, Annie, Luke, Max, Peter, 2 little souls ++, and sweet Rose who is legally ours!
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Hold My Hand?
