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Cay Gibson
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In the Do You Grow Fruit? thread, mary wrote:
"we are not allowed to have chickens because of our homeowner's association rules."
How many live in a restricted homeowner's neighborhood?
What are the restrictions?
Do you find them necessary?
Do you find them restrictive?
Which do you think benefits the community and which do not? Why?
Do you think homeowner restrictions segregate the community? How? For better or worse? Why or why not?
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Cay Gibson
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almamater
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We choose our suburban neighborhood precisely because it has no restrictions, but is middle class enough that there isn't anyone with a car junkyard or anything like that. We do have chickens and may consider other animals in the future. I just knew I wanted chickens and I also knew I couldn't live with that book of rules regarding garbage can placement, landscaping approvals, parking rules, etc. But, I know that is just my perspective. My parents in live in a retirement community and have tremendous restrictions; they love the uniformity of the neighborhood and the security (no cars parked on the street, no garages open, etc) that the rules bring. My mom dislikes that our neighbor has a carport (VERY common around here) and that she "has to look at his cars all the time." Mind you, he has two, very clean cars and one clean work table in his carport...not loaded with junk like many I have seen other places. LOL!
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Elizabeth
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Hmmm...off the top of my head:
1/No garbage cans outside.
2/No clotheslines.
3/No raised bed vegetable gardens on the sides or front of the house.
4/Basketball hoop in the driveway only.
5/No open garage doors.
6/No trailers.
7/No chickens, though my next door neighbors had a couple running around outside their house one day and we saw chicken feathers in the trash the next day  .
MacBeth says it looks like Disney World. We disregard #1 and get in trouble periodically. I'm planning to disregard #2 (thinking retractable here). We disobeyed #3 in our previous house in this neighborhood because we were unaware (it's a BIG book to read). We had an awesome garden and we had to move it. #4 is one of those things we're working on, thinking of pouring concrete in the backyard. Our driveway is barely long enough for our van--doesn't work for a hoop. For #5, the rule is that you have to be actively using the garage to have the door open. With seven kids in and out on a nice day, we're always actively using it.
Honestly, it is restrictive and it is pretty. I'm determined to make this yard as un-manicured as possible within the guidelines.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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JennGM
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Our HOA is very strict...probably similar to Elizabeth's. We can only have a certain type of fencing. We have to get preapproval for planting any type of garden or setting up any kind of structure. Sunflower houses and corn patches are definitely out. And of course, no political signs.
We hesitated buying the property, but it was in the area we really like, near family. It was the second choice neighborhood, but nothing worked out in the first choice (no HOA, but still in the right area). Dh's commute was just too much for us to add any minutes more for the luxury of a large yard. Our one next door neighbor has fruit trees, vegetable garden and grape vines, so we knew that any desires to grow a garden wouldn't be thwarted by nasty neighbors.
So we'll work with it. We're still city folks, so it's not that the restrictions are too immense for any planned undertakings.
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insegnante
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I'm not sure which rules are unique to the HOA and which are called for by the town. I think the HOA limits the grass to 8 inches and the town to 12, or maybe 10. The outdoor garbage cans are supposed to be put out front and taken in back no more than 24 hours from pickup. Pickup is Monday morning and our idea of Sunday rest is strict enough to preclude hauling trash cans out front so that narrows the window considerably. Let's see, once the yearly walk-around review people told us we had to remove a really quite unobtrusive plastic pinwheel from near our front door. I think there is a rule about having painted/colored items out front with the exception of December holiday season(and perhaps other holiday seasons to be "fair"... not sure though) decorations. We just had figured no one really cared about things like our pinwheel because there are plenty of other such decorations around, some more tasteful than others IMO. But the year we got the notice was the year new renters had moved in right across the street and plastic tulips appeared in various colors around all the edges of their front lawn. Perhaps the reviewers usually only notice the ones that are more egregious violations and thus they were more attuned to our pinwheel after seeing the tulips across the street.
There are plenty of other rules, but I doubt it's the most restrictive HOA around. I would much prefer a non-HOA place, if that were the only difference between our options. I don't personally want to paint polka dots on my house, but I prefer that the rare person who does be able to -- yes, I know, you have a choice at least in theory not to move into a HOA, but I still just can't get into the idea of making a list of all the colors my neighbors' shutters can be. Or prohibiting, say, chain link fences, never mind wrought the iron ones that IIRC are also banned -- not sure what the reasoning would be behind the latter, because I thought wrought iron fences were usually quite attractive and upscale-looking.
Theresa
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Jen L.
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I have mixed feelings about covenants/restrictions in a neighborhood. I think some are good but that they can definitely be overdone.
I like, for instance, that if the neighbors fence is falling down, the association can force that them to take it down or replace it. I am glad that we live in an older community that didn't think of such restrictive rules as some of those mentioned -- so I can still have a vegetable garden in my front yard (in a town house yet!) since that is where the sun is.
My parents live in a cookie-cutter retirement community and they can't even change there lamp post or mail box! That is too restrictive!
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Jen L.
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Cay Gibson wrote:
"we are not allowed to have chickens because of our homeowner's association rules."
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I forgot to mention that many rules are actually county rules, even if your home owners association doesn't have any. For instance, when I heard crowing(!) coming from my next-door-neighbors' yard years ago (remember we are in a townhouse!!), my other neighbor called the association to complain. It turned out that the association didn't have a rule against them, but the county did. The same goes for things such as long grass. If grass is too long (I forget the height but it's pretty tall) then the county can force you to cut it (it can become a breeding ground for rats etc.)
I think good, thoughtful, neighbors are the best answer, but that some decent covenants can be a safety net in case that's not who you get.
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Jen
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stefoodie
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we can't hang washing outside on the weekends and holidays, in our old neighborhood. in our new one you can't change the mailbox -- it has to be uniform with the rest of the community. at least here we're allowed hoops in the driveway! in the neighborhood we were thinking of building in we would have had to have one of those rolling ones because you need to put it back in the yard at night (a ridiculous rule if you ask me). can't build anything in the yard without permission, like my dream brick oven. in the old neighborhood you can't have fences because they like "open spaces". can't put up retaining walls either. our lamp post in the front yard has to have a light bulb in all the time, they automatically go on at dusk.
some of them are pretty ridiculous, i think, but i also think in some ways they make sense. i've lived in neighborhoods also where people don't care about their trash or their junk car sitting in the driveway or on the street. bad for resale LOL.
i'd live in a 2-acre lot out in the country if could have my way, raise chickens and maybe even a water buffalo. maybe when hubby retires from work, i can be the farmgirl i've always wanted to be. raise baby veggies for the gourmet restaurants around town :)
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lapazfarm
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We tried living in a neighborhood once. I could not take it and neither could my kids. We are just too countrified! I would cry when I looked out the window and saw house after house all the same, and row upon row of more of the same. I know some people like that uniformity, but for us it was a kind of prison. I love the freedom of living in a rural area. Commutes are longer, ammenities are fewer, but to our family it is the only way to live. I thank God daily for the blessings of a country life.
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guitarnan
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We deliberately bought in a neighborhood with an "optional" homeowners' association. They do ask that sidewalks be cleared of snow (so peds don't slip). No clothesline rules, fortunately, because I plan to haul my Italian mobile clothes hanging rack out of storage this summer. I have seen trends evolve in our area over the years...privacy fences are slowly creeping in, for example, but there isn't a hard and fast rule about fence height or color. We live on a private road, too, so we are in charge of our little street...let's hope we can get our fellow residents to save up for some repaving in the next year or two!
Our county prohibits farm animals without a zoning change, so we couldn't raise chickens if we wanted to, but at least I know the Garage Door Police won't drive down my street. All the residents on our road know us, and we try to work things out among ourselves.
This is something first-time buyers often don't know anything about...another reason I think we, as parents, just have to share these experiences with our children as they grow older. My son (14) will end this year with practical knowledge of all kinds of home-repair skills...painting (and prep), yard re-vamping, cleaning of aluminum siding, etc., and we do try to tell him about our decision-making. I remember when my parents added on to our home and built a weekend cabin (I wired plugs, nailed down subflooring, etc.). I've never forgotten the experience, actually, and I think it's made me a more knowledgeable homeowner.
The Boy Scout Architecture merit badge has some info about home design, and the Plumbing and Home Repairs merit badges are also quite comprehensive.
(Can you tell I'm a big believer in getting tweens and teens involved in home projects?)
At any rate, as you work with your HOA, don't forget to tell your older children about this process, so they have that knowledge to use as they grow up.
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folklaur
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If we want to repaint the trim on our house - the same color it already is - we have to write and get permission.
Honestly, I think our HOA is an annoyance. There are many communities around here, one just up the road about a half-mile, that pay just a slightly higher fee and get a slew of ammenities.
 they often have to "yell" at us about our lawn.
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mary
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clearly my neighborhood has restrictions! i don't find them all that restrictive though. there are only 8 homes in our community and so if you want a rule changed, it's pretty easy to do. our current rules:
no subdividing - we all have 2-5 acres. i like this rule.
remove trash cans within 24 hours
no wire fences
no rvs, boats or pickup trucks left outside (i have no opinion about this rule since we own none of these items)
no livestock, just horses, dogs, cats allowed. (i could sneak in chickens if it was a 4H project.)
pay your road dues (we are responsible for maintaining our private drive)
really the rules are mostly about neatness and keeping up property values. lots of HOA are very restrictive and i think ours is pretty mild.
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MacBeth
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Oh, man.
No farm animals (includes rabbits).
No fences (and thus, no pools).
No clotheslines.
No commercial vehicles in driveways overnight.
Rubbish is kept in the back, and the rubbish men must go into the back yard to collect it.
They tried "No satellite dishes" but the FCC overruled that--federal law trumps village code.
No fancy bicycle tricks.
No street parking overnight, or between 10am-12noon and 2pm to 4pm.
To use the playground, residents must wear a village button--I am a conscientious objector on that one!
Lawn must be kept...one village official had poison ivy on his lawn once .
All changes to the exterior of the houses must be approved by the board of architectural review.
The village code is huge and hard to read  .
Now, this 80 year old village, the second smallest in NY, has a waiting list for potential buyers. People are paying absurd amounts of money for these houses. There are only 400, and each is different. Personally, the restrictions would keep me out, but this is where Don grew up and where his main office is (and the business district restrictions are even worse).
Oh, and Elizabeth's 'hood does look like Disney .
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lilac hill
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NO covenants in the country here, BUT that can be a good and bad thing.
There are trailers in the process of demo--the process has lasted the 15 years we have been here.
Last week a neighbor must have bought a new matress because the garbage heap in the middle of the field now includes the old matress , garbage and a few tires. Right now there is a burning ban so it will be there until the ban is over. Multiple cars, tires, sheds, trucks line the properties near the road. This has been hard on our neighbors trying to sell.
But that said, I like being able to have our animals and clotheslines.
I do not really "get" the clothesline ban. If a restriction can tell you what kind of mailbox, couldn't they have a clothesline policy that would give a generic look? and also require that you don't hang overnight, and maybe do not hang underclothes? or whatever upsets people about clotheslines?
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MacBeth
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lilac hill wrote:
| I do not really "get" the clothesline ban. |
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The reasoning behind the clothesline ban here is that it might inhibit the firemen from getting through they back yard if they need to, especially at night.
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Elizabeth
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MacBeth wrote:
lilac hill wrote:
| I do not really "get" the clothesline ban. |
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The reasoning behind the clothesline ban here is that it might inhibit the firemen from getting through they back yard if they need to, especially at night. |
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I absolutely never thought of laundry as a fire hazard ('though fireman could not get through my garage into my mudroom/laundry and access the rest of the house on many days--so I guess it's an indoor fire hazard, too ). Would a retractable clothesline only used during daylight hours solve that problem?
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Jen L.
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Inhibit firemen! (or should I say fire fighters??!) This sounds like an excuse to me. They don't allow 2nd story clotheslines. Do they allow those old pole-type/umbrella clotheslines like in Amelia Bedelia (my sources are showing )
My tone may sound angry, but really it's not. Just incredulous. A community that bans open garages is clearly banning clotheslines for the same reason - perceived aesthetics.
Here are a couple of aricles/sites:
USA Today - Laundry Wars
Project Laundry List - Stop the Ban!
Sacramento Bee article
BTW, in Utah and Florida, clotheslines are PROTECTED by state law! Who'd have thought we'd ever see the day that we'd need that!
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Jen
dh Klete,ds (8/95),dd (12/97), dd (11/00), and ^2^ in heaven
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Taffy
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lapazfarm wrote:
| We tried living in a neighborhood once. I could not take it and neither could my kids. We are just too countrified! I would cry when I looked out the window and saw house after house all the same, and row upon row of more of the same. I know some people like that uniformity, but for us it was a kind of prison. I love the freedom of living in a rural area. Commutes are longer, ammenities are fewer, but to our family it is the only way to live. I thank God daily for the blessings of a country life. |
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I TOTALLY agree with you! I have in-laws in Calgary who paid a huge amount of money building their house. They have to follow rules similar to the ones posted already. I'm of the opinion that if I pay that much for a house, i should be able to paint it pink and neon green if I want (not that I would)! And the thought of living in a place that looks too uniform would feel like prison to me!
Of course, we live in a community of only 200 people! 
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almamater
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Jen L. wrote:
| Inhibit firemen! (or should I say fire fighters??!) This sounds like an excuse to me. They don't allow 2nd story clotheslines. Do they allow those old pole-type/umbrella clotheslines like in Amelia Bedelia (my sources are showing |
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That is the type we have. And we sometimes leave laundry up overnight...umm...sometimes longer
Jen L. wrote:
| BTW, in Utah and Florida, clotheslines are PROTECTED by state law! Who'd have thought we'd ever see the day that we'd need that! |
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Wow!
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MacBeth
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Jen L. wrote:
| Inhibit firemen! (or should I say fire fighters??!) This sounds like an excuse to me. |
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Yeah, I questioned it too...then the firefighters talked about not seeing the lines in the dark as they were running through back yards. I can totally understand that. We have a totally volunteer firehouse, and the only real expense, aside from equipment, is insurance. I think they'd like to get to the fire safely (often running on foot, as the village is tiny)...after that, they need to rely on skill and training.
A retractable clothesline that is taken down at night is acceptable.
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Topic: Homeowner Restrictions
