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mary
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| Posted: March 30 2006 at 4:03pm | IP Logged
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let me preface by saying that most times, my children are lovely, well-behaved, and kind to each other. however, i have noticed that my oldest son (almost 8) has been bullying his younger brother (5). I need advice as to how to stop this. Here's an example that happened recently: ds2 bought some tiny animals that he thought beautiful. ds1 while playing tag, grabbed one of the animals from ds2, taunted him and then threw it into the grass. ds2 burst into tears, searched for and found his little animal and then went into the house crying. ds1 was not sorry, he was enjoying his meanness.
how would you have handled this? i had ds1 look up compassion in the dictionary and write a letter of apology to his brother. ds2 is a very sweet, sensitive child and always accepts any apology. how can i be sure that ds1 understands that this behavior is wrong and unacceptable?
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mary
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| Posted: March 30 2006 at 7:59pm | IP Logged
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maybe i need to post this on a childfree board where non-parents are full of advice about raising children? 
i really would appreciate some advice on this issue.
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Meredith
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| Posted: March 30 2006 at 8:19pm | IP Logged
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Mary, I may not be the right one to answer here, but my just turned 4 year old tends to be the bully to the older dc, if that makes any sense  It's probably a personality issue as my older ds is more sensitive and was never a hitter until his little brother showed up and has man-handled his way into the sensitive one's life in such a way that he now fights back if necessary. WE don't condone his behavior and tend to send him to his room to think about why he shouldn't "bully" to get his way, ie 3rd child thing. Now with baby #4 he tends to be as lovey and sweet as pie and wants to "love" him generously sometimes to the point of being too much. He's just a very boisterous and highly testosterized boy if you will! I don't know if this helps or not, just our experience here 
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Willa
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| Posted: March 30 2006 at 8:45pm | IP Logged
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What you did was what Dr Ray Guarendi suggests, if that's any help -- have the offending child write an essay as a response to his misdeed.  I believe it must work since Dr Guarendi has ten children and that's quite a range of personalities to test with : )
I've actually never done that but I have had the transgressor do some acts of service for the child he hurt; or make up his own act of lovingkindness to do in order to make restitution.
And of course, apologies.
My 3yo bullies my special needs 6yo occasionally. It's hard on the older one because he is too gentle and protective of the younger one to fight back. I usually have the 3yo replay the situation the way he SHOULD have done it, guiding him physically through the right choices, and apologize and hug his brother. He is usually repentant and doesn't mind going through this process. It has NOT been a quick cure though -- the situation comes up again and again.
That one doesn't seem quite appropriate for an 8yo but maybe writing an essay on what he should have done would be -- I don't know : )
If aggression is REALLY getting to be a habit, I've had the child who's causing the problem stay close to me for a certain amount of time, maybe for a couple of hours or a day, so I can watch him closely and have him spend some "adult attachment" time, interacting on a higher level. Some kids just need to relearn more sociable ways of relating, at times. Then he can be more independent again when he is calmer and back on track. I think sometimes kids especially over-testostorized boys --love that term, Meredith!-- get over-energized by each others' company and lose sight of what they owe to each other in terms of courtesy.
And of course, I try to look at the bigger picture -- what's going on behind the scenes that might be causing the problem? jealousy? boredom? mom being preoccupied? sometimes when I find the root cause I can deal with it more proactively.
Gee, that's probably way more than you were asking for!
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Willa
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: March 30 2006 at 9:10pm | IP Logged
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I wish I could be more help, but I will try.
Perhaps your ds1 could lose the priveledge of playing with ds2 if he cannot play nicely. As Willa suggested, he will have to stay close to you during this time while ds2 plays as usual. Around here we call it "time in" rather than time out. It works fairly well with my dd(4yo) when she picks on my 2yo grandson. Especially when he goes on happily playing without her while she has to help fold laundry! After an appropriate time in, ds1 can ask permission to play with ds2 again, but must understand that it is a priveledge that can be taken away if abused.
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Rebecca
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| Posted: March 30 2006 at 10:44pm | IP Logged
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mary wrote:
| however, i have noticed that my oldest son (almost 8) has been bullying his younger brother (5). I need advice as to how to stop this....ds1 was not sorry, he was enjoying his meanness. |
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Mary, I had the same dilemma with my 2 sons. My oldest is now 9 1/2 and the younger is 6 (so similar age span as yours). I noticed when my oldest turned eight, he was no longer satisfied playing the same "younger boy" games that he had played with his little brother all those years. My younger ds wanted to play army men and dress up (cowboy, davy crockett etc.) My oldest felt that he was having to play "little kid" things that he no longer wanted to play. He wanted to move on to other things. I would often tell them to go play together anyways. My older ds would be mean or aggressive toward the littler ds because, instead of disobeying mom, he took his frustration out on younger ds.
I think we remedied it fairly well by allowing older ds to have some time to himself (younger tends to try to occupy him every minute he can) each day. We also try to spend more time one on one with older. This ALWAYS helps sibling relations in our family. Once in a while, we try to take our older son out for a special outing or we let him stay up a half hour later once a week just to hang out with mom or dad.
mary wrote:
| how would you have handled this? i had ds1 look up compassion in the dictionary and write a letter of apology to his brother. |
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I think that sounds like a good idea! When we went through this period, everytime my older ds was mean to younger ds, I had him write 5 things that he loved about his brother and read them to him.
mary wrote:
| ds2 is a very sweet, sensitive child and always accepts any apology. how can i be sure that ds1 understands that this behavior is wrong and unacceptable? |
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My guess is that, at his age, he already knows that it is wrong but just isn't sorry yet. Someone once told me that the best way to encourage contrition when someone is mean is to give all your attention and sympathy to the "victim". I have said things to the victim (in front of the one who was mean) like, "How sad you must feel when your brother says things that are unkind. I am so sorry that he hurt your feelings." (Hugs and kisses.) Usually this will elicit a response from the one who was mean.
Anyhow, I hope things improve for your fellows. Hang in there!
God Bless,
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humanaevitae
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| Posted: March 31 2006 at 12:40am | IP Logged
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You are not alone
My children have this same problem. The boys especially go out of their way to tease and basically make another feel bad or get angry. Unfortunately the teasing leads to anger/striking back. I am left with two problems to correct.
Although the kids all play together often, the teasing and striking back is constant! I honestly could spend all day handing out consequences.
I decided like the pp's that being with siblings is a privilege. Starting a week ago the kids spend much of the day by themselves. They each have seperate areas that they must stay in that are away from each other. (One is in the school room, one in the toy room, one by a bookshelf, etc..) Periodically they all switch areas.
My house is much quieter  . We still eat together but all conversation/interaction must be positive or they leave. After a few days they were begging to spend time together and I've started introducing group time again. It is still mostly supervized. I am also much more patient and a better example as I'm not running from one crisis to another.
Although this may seem extreme it is working for us as my kids are very social and all WANT to be with each other (for the most part). I also didn't know what else to do- the "fighting" was constant. Apealing to their conscience didn't really work because although they cared about Jesus/etc.. they just didn't care enough to control their actions. In many cases imperfect contrition comes before perfect contrition! Thus the necessary consequences.
Hopefully your kids aren't the "hardened" cases that mine are  . Pm me though if they are...I could use hearing from another mom in the battlefield!
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mary
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| Posted: March 31 2006 at 4:02am | IP Logged
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thank you so much for responding! i grew up with all girls and so boy issues are different for me.
i also love the term 'highly testosterized!' i think it does suit this child - even when hugging his brother, he gets a little too physical. it probably fits with their sizes as well; ds1 is a 90% child and ds2 is a 50% at best.
willa, thank you for telling me that Dr. Ray recommends the consequence i used. I like his parenting advice. i also appreciate the insight that this isn't all a personality issue, and that boredom (in this case) has been the culprit. I have been very busy these last few days especially and sloppy with regard to keeping the kids occupied. it helps to see that i have a hand in this as well.
theresa, i love your idea of time in, and rebecca has even made it a priviledge! one of my favorite hsing moms irl spends individual time with each of her kids monthly and i often think wow, what a great idea. i need to work harder at implementing that. my oldest boy and i were walking in the mornings and that really was important to him. i need to go back to doing that - it would be great for me too, to be walking this last trimester.
i'm good at rewarding the victim and not the aggressor - i learned that with my 2 yr old who began biting the boys. the most effective cure for that behavior was giving the victim a dum dum sucker. it was hilarious to watch how that immediately stopped the biting and kept the boys from being angry with their sister until she broke the habit.
nicole, i think what you have set up is a great idea as well. we have quiet time in the afternoons while the 2 yr old naps. the boys can play games, run outside or read. this is when they get into trouble. the idea of separating them during quiet time would really hit home that being together is something they would miss if they lost it. unfortunately, i'm selfish and like that quiet time to myself as well and now i'd have to use it for 'time in!' unless i sent them to their rooms. hmmm. . . .
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MichelleW
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| Posted: March 31 2006 at 4:17am | IP Logged
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This is what I do:
1. The offender must hug the offended until the offended is done crying. This is by far the most effective thing I have ever done, but I started them young on this. When the offender FEELS the crying, shaking body of his "victim" it makes those hurt feelings much more difficult to ignore. The offender is responsible for the comforting of the offended. Like anything else, in this house we are responsible for cleaning up our own messes. Emotional messes are more difficult to "clean up." My sons are finally reaching the point where they realize that the clean up is not worth the momentary thrill of pushing someone's buttons. Comforting the offended means stopping what you are doing and directing your attention on someone else for what can sometimes be a long time. It means trying to think about what the other person might need to hear from you, or see you do, to be comforted.
2. We are lucky enough to have several men in our lives who are very manly and very kind. We have all made clear to the boys that the mark of a "Real Man" is kindness to those who are weaker than they are. We often talk about behavior we witness while we are out, or on TV/movies/in books. Pushing around those who are weaker is what a petulant child would do, and so someone who behaves that way should be treated as a child (I let the boys talk about how that might look). Showing kindness to those weaker is a sign of growing in wisdom and stature. That is the kind of behavior that is rewarded (I let the boys discuss proper rewards). We talk about this a lot. When we see "manly" behavior we reward it.
3. We pray for each other. It makes us more aware of each other's strengths and weaknesses. It helps us to carry one another's crosses.
I typed a short novel, but I am deleting the rest of this. I've rambled on long enough...
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Becky Parker
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| Posted: March 31 2006 at 6:39am | IP Logged
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Wow, you have gotten so much good advice! I am taking notes! My suggestion might not help at all but this is what I do...
We get together with a group of homeschoolers about twice a month and the kids play. Also, we ahave another homeschool family near us and our kids play frequently with the kids from this family. Anyway, when my children are being bullies toward one another or just mean, I tell them that they aren't going to be able to play with friends until they show me that they have the proper social skills with one another. I have had to cancel our "play day" with friends (which is hard on me too) and do "kindness camp" instead. This is nothing special, just my word for being grounded from seeing friends until the kids can act kindly towards one another. I'm not sure this does much good in the long run, because we've had to have several "kindness camps", but they do know that there bullying or whatever is not acceptable. I think I'm going to add some of the suggestions above to our kindness camp to see if I can make it more effective.
Becky
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Becky Parker
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| Posted: March 31 2006 at 6:43am | IP Logged
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I just wanted to add one other thing. In our family, it is usually the older two bullying the younger two. Actually, the oldest is the worse offender but I think that is for some of the reasons mentioned above by others. One thing that does "bring us all together" though is our nature hikes. For some reason, when we are out on the trail, everybody is so nice to everybody else. The oldest is a huge help with the littles and will even carry them on his back if they get tired. Some of our most precious pictures are from these times. Maybe it's because he feels like he's more responsible in a setting that he is comfortable (he LOVES everything "nature-ish), I don't know. But I can tell it's been a long cold winter and we haven't done a nature hike in a while. I think it's time to hit the trail!
Becky
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: need parenting help re: bullying
