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MarilynW
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| Posted: Feb 28 2009 at 10:48am | IP Logged
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The state of the economy is really making us look again at how we can work towards not being dependent on Corporate America. I am so inspired when I hear of the families such as the Duggars and the Maxwells who live debt free and have a spirit of entrepreunership such that they are not dependent on corporate America.
Also looking at the new federal budget and deficit I worry about what kind of future there is for my children and I so want to encourage them to be self-sufficient and debt-free and enterepreunerial.
Please would you share any ideas, resources etc.
Thank you
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Marilyn
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Servant2theKing
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| Posted: Feb 28 2009 at 11:17am | IP Logged
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While we are nowhere near being self-sufficient, we are at least looking at being less dependent on larger suppliers for food. We are trying to obtain heirloom seeds, with the idea of being able to grow our own food, now and for years to come, especially as more and more seeds and food sources are being genetically altered or engineered in such a way that almost all seeds available for purchase will not reproduce.
We also try to buy local as much as possible...while we may be unable to be self-susatainable, we can at least support others who are already on that path. Yesterday, I discovered an Amish store practically in our own backyard and stocked up on many basics. While my husband is still reliant on Corporate America for our livelihood, I am trying to research ways to help our children explore more independent ways of supporting themselves and hopefully their own families in the future.
There's a book entitled "Unjobbing" that may be helpful:
http://www.amazon.com/Un-Jobbing-Adult-Liberation-Handbook-S econd/dp/096548341X
I borrowed it from the library several years ago and am not sure of the exact title...I think I'll try to find it again. It seems like the book and its author were somewhat unconventional, but it may be worthwhile for gleaning ideas. (The amazon link above has some interesting comments in the sidebar...I edited my response after finding the link)
Interesting thread...looking forward to others' input.
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JodieLyn
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Definately, not being dependant on others who may become fickle is a great thing.. not owing money puts you in a great position if bad times happen.
But I just wanted to add a note of caution.. that there is a point when you can harm yourself more than help. Especially, if you let a spirit of fear take hold in place of trust in God.
My most favorite article that came out with the Y2K debacle was all about that..
"Be prepared to be wrong"
Basically, if you buy a cabin in the backcountry with lots of MRE's and Guns and Ammo.. you might be prepared for anarchy but not much else.. and selling your house and quiting your job to get it and be there means you're not prepared to be wrong.
On the other hand.. a pantry full of food that your family eats and the ability to garden and the seeds to garden with.. does it matter what the economy does or doesn't? is it going to hurt you? Nope.. especially not when like I do, all that food in your pantry is bought on sale.. and you end up spending less money on the same amount of food than you would if you bought just enough each week to last that week.
So I'm all for doing things for yourself.. and for getting into jobs that you want that will make you less dependant on nebulous things like... the economy 
But keep in mind that we should be acting in prudence, not in fear.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
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All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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MarilynW
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JodieLyn wrote:
On the other hand.. a pantry full of food that your family eats and the ability to garden and the seeds to garden with.. does it matter what the economy does or doesn't? is it going to hurt you? Nope.. especially not when like I do, all that food in your pantry is bought on sale.. and you end up spending less money on the same amount of food than you would if you bought just enough each week to last that week.
So I'm all for doing things for yourself.. and for getting into jobs that you want that will make you less dependant on nebulous things like... the economy
But keep in mind that we should be acting in prudence, not in fear.
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Jodie - I so agree with you. And I KNOW that God always provides. BUT - I also want my children to consider alternatives - that they do not have to follow the path of college, grad school, corporate america - that there may be other alternatives. eg my brother in law who lost his job had a private school education throughout and Ivy League undergrad and grad school - it has not made him recession proof.
I was brought up with the mentality that after all those many years of college and professional training that I would work for someone else. I want my children to consider alternatives.
For some reason - I keep thinking about Nissa on this list and how they have aimed for self-sufficiency,
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Marilyn
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Feb 28 2009 at 12:21pm | IP Logged
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Yep.. and also look at what jobs are usually considered "critical" or things people do in poor times as well as affluent times.. I have a friend who's dh does construction.. sure right now most of his jobs are to people building high end custom homes.. but his skills will keep them in jobs for repairing much more modest homes that people won't be selling so quickly. It is possible to work for others but in a more recession proof sphere than some.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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Donna Marie
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MarilynW wrote:
For some reason - I keep thinking about Nissa on this list and how they have aimed for self-sufficiency, |
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LOL! You and me both!
Nissa, I love you!
We are in the position of not being debt-free or can we be for quite some time. I keep praying about that though! We are trying very hard to re-organize things so we don't run the risk of losing our home. ...now THAT is a long story that I told on the boards last year!
We are putting in a sq ft garden that is as natural as possible and one of our friends from church wants us to be one of the directing families of putting in a large one at our local church. His idea is to relieve the burden on local families! With a new baby and my life..no pressure. but it is close enough for the older kids to walk to to weed and water. They are learning to be good stewards of their time and talent...slow but sure.
One of the things that is on my list of things to do is have a huge herb garden and grow my own teas. Herbs can really make simple meals seem extra-ordinary and can be used to make many health and beauty items as well.
The garden is our science curriculum for this spring..so everyone is jumping in with both feet. We are having weekly family meetings about this and are planning already how we are going to keep the garden going and preserve what we grow so we don't waste or get lazy about the whole deal. We NEED this, period. I mean when I calculate what I spend on herbs in the supermarket alone...this would be a big savings. They can also be used to make great gifts.
I have been trying to be as wise a steward of our money as possible. I have been keeping lists of needed items in my purse which includes the kids shoe sizes and what they may be needing soon. I go to the local thrift store and browse the clearance racks at clothing stores and will hit the garage sales again when the weather gets better. I only go with cash...and I am firmly resolved not to bring home anything not needed. Just because it doesn't cost much doesn't mean that it isn't nice. I have found some wonderful brand-name things. The trick is...to plan ahead and make lists.
One fun thing we have been doing is using thrifted finds to make gifts (like costumes for a dress-up chest or doll clothing. I am having so much fun making a ball gown for my dd's American Girl doll. I cut up a dress I would not dress her in that was handed down to her. It was cut too immodestly for her but is made of this dark blue embroidered satin with a velvet shrug...I pared that with some trims that I got from freecycle from a lady that had too much in her craft room....many people happy with just a little bit of creativity and kindness. I am going to teach my dd to crochet and my mom is teaching me to knit... so we are going to make gifts for next Christmas over the summer and make some dishcloths at the same time! (I figure dish cloths would be great practice squares!)
We had to re-think how much we spend on gifts. We try to make things meaningful with less and just because it came from a garage sale and was a little used doesn't make it wrong to give. My kids got a whole bin of lincoln logs last summer that have been an endless source of creative fun. They don't care that it was previously loved. (just me once in awhile..but i am getting over that seeing how much they APPRECIATE every little thing...that is another story for another time, i am sure!)
I also bring home canning supplies whenever I find them. One huge box of mason qt. jars was 1.00!
We use freecycle all of the time. I was able to get some gorgeous clothing for the baby when he was first born from there.
We are looking into a way of getting local grass-fed meat from animals that were properly taken care of...my dh loves to fish and he usually catches and releases but! he is going to ask his friend at the local fish hatchery where the best cleanest sources of fish can be had and bring it home for the table instead. I need a source of RAW milk yet. It is hard to find as it is not legal to purchase in NJ.
I get bulk grains from a wholesale distributor as I have set myself up as my own co-op. I have a grinder and grind whatever I need fresh....so I get healthy without breaking the bank. It sure beats the LARGE price tag on the flour at the market and it is healthier because it is fresh-ground.
We cut up our credit cards. I know that there may be a time when we may need one, but I don't like the tricks they can pull and how easy it is to charge things on them....not to mention how costly a simple mistake is. We have successfully been one year without one and just on one salary...that salary was cut quite a bit about a year and a half ago. It is amazing what we have learned and how much we continue to learn. God has been very good to us. I wish I learned some of these things years ago!
Sometimes I think of how the pioneers had to take just the basics with them and grow their own when they got to where they were going. I sorta feel like a homesteader in reverse...going from relying on the store all of the time for entertainment and every little thing to pulling back, simplifying and enjoying little things more. We have a little army here and we are using them. We all pitch in...necessity brings out a lot of good in them.
I am always looking for new ideas! Please feel free to share!
I am longing for a few acres, a cow, some chickens and some fruit and nut trees.....sigh. I don't care that it is a lot of work or a commitment. My whole life is work and commitment and that is ok when it is done with love. In God's time I guess!
God love you,
Donna Marie from NJ
hs momma to 8dc!
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God love you!
Donna Marie from NJ
hs momma to 9dc!!
Finding Elegant Simplicity
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trish
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We have been encouraging our children to maybe look into getting into a trade like carpentry or maybe an electrician something along those lines.
We have 6 acres and we are also unfortunately not debt free but we are striving to become more self-sufficient. We have a huge garden plot and space for a cow or 2 even maybe some pigs. We already have chickens so we eat fresh eggs. Can't beat those. I've been praying for my cow to appear but so far she hasn't made her appearance. I am hopeful that this will be the year. Just getting her alone would provide us with milk, butter, and cheese, something we love here and eat alot of! And yes we are feeding a small army too.
This is the year though that we are being very serious with growing our own food. We did obtain some wonderful heirloom seeds from The Cottage Gardener . We had great success with seeds from them last year.
Funny ..... I was just reading The New Complete Book of Self-Sufficiency . This is something that's very dear to our hearts. We're not afraid of the work involved and we are very thankful that God has given us this place in this time.
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Bookswithtea
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trish wrote:
We have been encouraging our children to maybe look into getting into a trade like carpentry or maybe an electrician something along those lines.
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We are doing this, too. Almost everyone I know from my college days is not doing so well, financially, except the ones who became teachers. People with *skilled* trades (like 2 yr technical degrees) are often able to be self employed or to work for someone but be much much safer, economically. You know, even if we have a full blown depression, people aren't going to turn off their lights, a car mechanic will still be in demand (probably moreso as people will be fixing instead of upgrading), and people still need hair cuts. My own hair dresser works a lot of hours but she has put away enough to put down 20% on her first house. And she has no student loans, either. She learned to cut hair at a career center, passed the boards when she graduated and started working full time at 18. I guess she's probably 28 now.
I'm so *not* a conspiracy theorist, and I thought the whole Y2K thing was stupid. BUT...I see real value in self sufficiency. We are putting in a big garden this year too (with heirloom seeds), and are getting our own layers as well as raising broilers once a year, and if all goes well, 2 dairy goats, too. I am really excited. I don't have the room for a cow, but I sure would love one.
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time4tea
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I think that in order to be truly self-sufficient, it is important to look at being less reliant on big government to solve all of our problems. As more people look to the federal government to fix every and any problem, our liberty - and with it our self-sufficiency - is compromised. Looking at the former Soviet bloc as an example, it is clear to see that the people had very little, if any, autonomy. I greatly fear that we are set to experience a taste of that here. I pray I'm wrong.....
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Angel
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MarilynW wrote:
| Jodie - I so agree with you. And I KNOW that God always provides. BUT - I also want my children to consider alternatives - that they do not have to follow the path of college, grad school, corporate america - that there may be other alternatives. eg my brother in law who lost his job had a private school education throughout and Ivy League undergrad and grad school - it has not made him recession proof. |
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I've been thinking about this as I think about what my oldest's grades 7-12 should look like. I keep coming back to a phrase the Colfaxes used when describing themselves (or maybe someone else used it of them): "practical bookishness."
Their boys went to Harvard, but... they could also raise dairy goats, build a house, raise a garden. In our own lives, my dh helped put himself through college (and also to support us) by working on cars -- a skill he taught himself as a teenager. He has 2 degrees in accounting and a very white collar job in finance right now... but he still has those mechanical skills, which -- God forbid -- we could fall back on if we really needed to.
We are not entirely debt free -- we have a mortgage, too, and it's got much more owing than I would like. We are paying extra on it right now, so I know that if worse came to worse, at least we could use *that* extra as a cushion.
We do have a big garden, keep chickens (this year for meat and eggs), and will also be adding turkeys. We buy meat from local farmers and produce from local farms. We did not start out doing this to be recession-proof but to eat better and to support local agriculture, local families. But as money becomes scarcer and farm-raised meat becomes more dear... well, it *does* make sense to raise it ourselves, since we have the land.
Anyway, as I look ahead to our children's future, I will try to provide my children with solid academic skills, and we do encourage our kids to go to college. But we will also try to teach our sons to build chicken coops, fix an engine, etc -- give them something to fall back on in hard times since THEY will be responsible for supporting a family, too, one day!
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Angela
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Willa
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Bookswithtea wrote:
| Almost everyone I know from my college days is not doing so well, financially, except the ones who became teachers. People with *skilled* trades (like 2 yr technical degrees) are often able to be self employed or to work for someone but be much much safer, economically. |
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Around here, the teachers and electricians and mechanics are suffering, too. I think one advantage though of having a more independent trade is that you learn to be resilient. I think people who have spent a heck of a lot of $$$ and time on their advanced degrees sometimes feel betrayed when it doesn't turn over into secure prosperity. The "trade" people I know don't have that expectation that life owes them something -- they expect to work hard and have to tighten their belt sometimes. This is a survival skill -- making do, doing without,adapting, looking for new ways to manage, being capable. A lot of people don't grow up with that nowadays, which is one way a large family without much income can naturally model a real survival skill.
Love the way you described work, Donna Marie. It gave me such a lift!
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Willa
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Topic: Being self-sufficient and debt free?
