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tovlo4801
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I've been mulling over a fairly muddled question the last day or so.
I'm working my way through the Introvert Advantage book that's been recommended here and I'm finding it fascinating. There's been plenty of the "Aha!" moments promised. I'm not all the way through it yet.
Here's the thing that keeps sticking me. She talks perpetually about introverts needing alone time, down time to recharge. Time away from everything to just process and stare out the window if necessary. That sounds like perfection to me. I'm always in search of quiet to just think! In fact I actually remember some of the time after my daughter's death pleasantly because I was left alone and allowed to do just that. I have very strong memories of just sitting on our couch for hours, staring out our front window and thinking things over.
I've struggled with this specific question off and on for years. I actually posted at Catholic Answers about this a while back, but I think my question was posed wrong and I was simply assured over and over that introversion is not a sin. Perhaps I have a healthy dose of that shame and guilt associated with my temperment she talks about, but I always struggle with how much time I'd like to just be still and alone with my thoughts and what I believe is expected of me in the interest of service to God and my family. In a world that is constantly moving and doing, the idea of just sitting and looking out the window, while heavenly to me, sounds downright lazy. Is it?
I remember when Mothers Rule of Life first came out, I thought the day to herself she recommended sounded fabulous. I started making mental plans to go to art museums and libraries and parks to just sit and think. Then the idea was solidly condemned by Catholic mothers who I deemed to be "good" and solid in their faith. I talked myself into understanding that all my desire for personal time and quiet was self-centered.
I truly get so internally agitated when I need to be engaged for any length of time with people that my hands clench, my teeth grit and I feel like running from them (including my children and husband). I just want them to be quiet and leave me alone! I told myself this is sin. I'm just selfish, I told myself. I need to grit my teeth and be more self-sacrificing, I told myself.
I'm torn now between wondering two things. The first is perhaps Holly Pierlot is an introvert. Perhaps all those "good" Catholic mom's who were appalled by the idea of leaving the family for a day alone are extroverts? Perhaps the author of the Introvert Advantage is right, and I really do need to allow myself more time alone.
The other thought I have is that the author of the Introvert Advantage is not Catholic. Perhaps she is sucked into a secular world-view that has accepted the idea of the goodness of a life that is made as pleasant as possible when the reality is that self-sacrifice is what is truly good. Perhaps I really should just be sucking it up and throwing myself into service day and night without asking for the rest I feel I need, but also suspect might be excessive.
Do you guys have any thoughts about this? Is there a middle ground I'm not considering here?
TIA
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amyable
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I'm going to mull over this for awhile (since I only have a minute right now) but I just want you to know I struggle with the exact same thoughts. How much of my need to be alone really is a *need* and how much is just sin. I will say that over the past few years I seem to have less need to be away from my own family as I have cut down on outside responsibilities and thrown myself more into my home life. Yes, I do lock myself in the bathroom alone now and then  but I'm not half as bad as I used to be. I'm going to ponder the reasons why and hopefully post again later!
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Elizabeth
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I've only got a minute too, but I am equally conflicted. I found HOlly Pierlot's approach selfish. On the other hand, I am very much an introvert. I get panicky when peole begin to close in on me and I definitely need plenty of space to process and to live in privacy. I'd love to live in the middle of at least three wooded acres. The difference, I think is the amount of time I need and the speople from whom I need to distance myself.
While I need little breaks from my children (the length of a hot bath or a quick trip to a nearby cafe or even grocery shopping by myself), I don't need the same privacy as I do from the rest of the world. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't think it's necessary to wall myself off from my family for hours and hours, but I do need plenty of time and space between me and the rest of the world.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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tovlo4801
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Thank you for the quick insights. They are more valuable than you might think.
When I think about it my stress with my family is usually when I'm trying to sort out some interaction with someone outside my family. Maybe that outside interaction is draining me just enough that I don't have anything left for my family. Maybe recognizing my temperment and choosing wisely where I spend my energy is the right option. The middle ground?
You guys might have just provided me the epiphany Jane said I needed back when I posted about outside volunteering. I'm going to mull it over. Please do post more complete thoughts when you have time.
Thanks.
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Karen E.
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tovlo4801 wrote:
Do you guys have any thoughts about this? Is there a middle ground I'm not considering here? |
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Hi, Richelle,
I do think there's a middle ground. First of all, being an introvert (and needing to recharge via "alone time") is a legitimate temperament (as you already know.) Once I accepted that about myself, it helped me a great deal.
So, then, the question becomes, "How much alone time is necessary for my spiritual and mental and emotional health (and for the good of my family) vs. how much is desired.
Holly Pierlot's full day away might seem extreme and selfish to some. If it seems extreme to an individual, then it probably would be selfish for that individual. If what you'd like is a week but you're willing to settle for one day, then it might not be so extreme.  I say that only slightly tongue-in-cheek.
I guess the main point I'd like to make is that there is not one, particular, universal "rule" or answer that will work for everyone. We are far too individual in our temperaments, needs, gifts and woundedness for someone else to make that judgment for us.
Perhaps I'm only trying to justify myself. I am very much an introvert and I really do need some time away to recharge and to be the wife and mother I want to be. The time I actually take away from my family has gotten to be far less as I've adjusted to motherhood over the years. But, it has truly been an adjustment for me in ways that it probably has not been for women who always wanted to be mothers and always knew they would be mothers (remember, I'm the former atheist who wasn't going to have children.)
These days, my time away might just be the solo grocery shopping that Elizabeth mentioned. But, some months, it is a day, of heading to a city 100 miles away to see a priest who acts as my spiritual director. I love getting out, and having time to myself as I drive, and being recharged and refocused through the direction I receive.
For someone else, it might be selfish, but I find it to be the right balance for me and that's all I can really discern. I know that a part of me longs for more alone time than I get, and that's where I have to examine my sin nature and be honest ... am I pushing my kids away in order to be alone? Am I being rude or unkind to anyone? Am I using my temperament as an excuse to be alone, beyond what I truly need? I have to reexamine this regularly.
I really encourage you to keep exploring the "outside activity" line of thinking, too. It's been very true for me that I have become a better, more focused mom as I have put outside activities aside. Being too involved in stuff outside the home leaves me drained, impatient and unpleasant with the people inside my home.
I was really struck by this the year I decided to give up being on our parish's RCIA team. I was sitting at the computer composing a talk, and Emily entered the room. I snapped at her (then felt awful, of course ... she was pretty little) and I suddenly had a picture of myself as God must be seeing me at that moment: the irony of my being impatient and sharp when I was "doing work for God!"  Yikes. I realized I wasn't doing the work that God put right in front of me to the best of my ability.
Well, I've got to get Kate to bed, but wanted to throw out these thoughts. It probably isn't very helpful to say, "It's too individual for me to give you an answer," but in a way, that is the answer.
Prayers for you in your discernment,
love in Christ,
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God bless,
Karen E.
mom to three on earth, and several souls in God's care
Visit my blog, with its shockingly clever title, "Karen Edmisten."
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cctabb
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First I have to ask, when is needing/wanting time alone a sin? How is it a sin? What part of this am I not getting?
Those questions asked, I have to agree with alot of what Karen E has said above.
This is similar to something I've been telling a friend of mine for a while now. First be true to what God is asking, then be true to what your body is asking because if you don't do those two thing you aren't going to be doing your family/children much good. And personally I think that would be the bigger sin.
Charlene
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Cheryl
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I'm an introvert too and I've never considered it to be a sin. I think it's the nature God gave to me. I am responsible to take care of my spiritual condition and if that means I need to be alone sometimes, then I better do it, otherwise I will be empty and have nothing to give those around me. I agree with what Karen said about examining regularly. I can ask myself if I'm being selfish here or not? What do I need? It's important for me to be honest and to make sure that my needs get met.
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Leonie
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I tend to think that something can be a sin for me IF it detracts from my primary duty and vocation.
I am not an introvert but I do still need and take some time for me - maybe ten minutes of reading at night or my morning half hour email time orexercise time or occasional attendance at our homeschool Mother's Night Out.
If these things had a detrimental effect on my family and vocation, I would not do them.
Similarly, if the many activities we do, because of my being an extrovert, were harmful, then I would stop some of them.
I think I just need to be careful to discern whether an activity is good for me and the vocation God has given me and then discern the amount of time to devote to this activity.
But the discernment can be difficult - there's the rub!
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Karen E.
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cctabb wrote:
| First I have to ask, when is needing/wanting time alone a sin? How is it a sin? What part of this am I not getting? |
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I don't mean to speak for Richelle, but I think that it's more a matter of her wanting to discern how much time is acceptable, and when it crosses the line into a sinful behavior for a mom.
Plus, I think we introverts tend to analyze things quite a bit. 
Here's an applicable quote from today's Office of Readings, from St. Charles Borromeo:
"Are you in charge of a parish? If so, do not neglect the parish of your own soul, do not give yourself to others so completely that you have nothing left for yourself. You have to be mindful of your people without becoming forgetful of yourself."
I do think that as Catholic moms we sometimes fall into the trap of thinking we have to pour ourselves out so completely that we must never give a thought to our own well-being. And yet, Christ, who poured Himself out more completely than anyone of us ever could, also had to "escape" from the apostles now and then for solitude and prayer. But, when God's will called for it, He did not escape, but gave Himself up completely. When the time was right.
As mothers, there are times to "take care of ourselves" emotionally/spiritually, and there are other times during which we must give up what we'd like to do in favor of doing God's will, in favor of what we need to do. It's that constant discernment -- in my case, there have been times when I've had some time to myself planned, mapped out, only to need to sacrifice it because the kids needed me more than I needed the time. Once, I was going to zip to the airport (two hours away) to meet a longtime online friend, but when I got up that morning, my daughter was having her first-ever period ... how could I go away on such a day? I had been so looking forward to the meeting, the time out, etc., but I needed to let go of my own agenda, because my daughter needed me more than I needed the meeting with a friend.
To have STUCK to my plan for "my time" -- regardless of my daughter -- would have been selfish of me. To have made the plans in the first place was not selfish.
Richelle, I think the other thing you're asking is if the book you're reading is too secular, and if that then cancels out its good advice. While I think it's prudent to be on guard when we read secular materials, when we weigh them against the Church's teachings, we needn't fear. St. Charles Borromeo's quote above nicely illustrates that the Church does not think we must totally neglect our own needs in order to serve others. I'm not familiar with the particular book you're reading, but my general advice is always to weigh such things against Church teaching (which is exactly what you're doing by sorting this out.)
I do think it's true we may need to sacrifice more than most of society would recognize as "healthy" but then, the Cross itself is seen as "unhealthy" by those outside of Christianity ... it is a stumbling block to them.
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Karen E.
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Karen E.
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| Posted: Nov 04 2005 at 7:39am | IP Logged
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Leonie wrote:
I tend to think that something can be a sin for me IF it detracts from my primary duty and vocation.
But the discernment can be difficult - there's the rub! |
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Perfectly put, Leonie!
And, also great that you point out that what might detract for an introvert may not detract for an extrovert. That's exactly why we shouldn't judge one another on such decisions. They are so individual. (Btw, I'm not saying that anyone here has judged anyone ... I don't think anyone has. I just think we ALL have the temptation to come up with THE answer ... if only it were so simple!)
I also had the thought that God uses whatever vocation He's placed us in to purify us. For introverts who want a lot of time alone, it can be purifying to sacrifice some of that. Not the extent that we neglect our needs, but to the extent that we do make some sacrifices, if that makes sense.
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Karen E.
mom to three on earth, and several souls in God's care
Visit my blog, with its shockingly clever title, "Karen Edmisten."
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tovlo4801
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Such wise women here!
I'm still mulling, but I wanted to jump back in with some things your thoughts mixed with mine have produced.
I think I truly do need time away by myself to think with no secondary reason for that time. I take long walks by myself on Saturdays, but the secondary reason in exercise. I will have time alone in the car as I drive to run errands, but there is the secondary reason of errands. I listen to books on tape or music while I do my data-entry on the computer, but it's still primarily work time. I have multi-tasked ALL of my alone time. It is quite a lot of time actually, but none of it is as restorative as it needs to be because I'm still draining as I do it. I truly need time away with no other purpose but to allow me time to just sit and stare and think.
Another thought. Even though taking time away occasionally is not an acceptable option for many women, the truth for my situation is that my husband was perfectly fine with it. Since I truly believe I need it and my particular situation allows for it, then I need not feel that I'm doing something wrong taking it.
Finally, the whole sacrifice thing. My husband is fine with me taking time off by myself. Some afternoon when I want to go, he might not be. If he tells me that and I go anyway, then I've crossed a line. If he's fine with me going and I go, well where's the problem? I was feeling like I had to be sacrificing every moment of every day or I just wasn't serving properly. I certainly didn't sacrifice all the time, but sure felt a great deal of guilt over my failure. I'm figuring out that I'm not actually asked to sacrifice all the time. I better be ready to when asked, but there is not the need to sacrifice something no one has asked me to give up.
Discernment plays in here too, doesn't it? Will I know when I'm being asked to sacrifice? Maybe, maybe not. But here's the other thing I'm slowly getting. I'm not perfect nor will I ever be no matter how high I jump (or how hard I think about things ). The process of discernment isn't perfect. Will I always discern the right path? Nope. Will anyone? Nope. I'm going to take wrong turns along the way. I can't be complacent about that, but I can't beat myself to a bloody pulp everytime I falter either.
I'm thinking now that if I give myself that TRUE time of recharging, then I actually will have more sincere energy to give my family when they need it from me.
And I'm still working through the outside commitment issues. That needs to change, I'm sure of it, but I'm not exactly sure how it will look. There are some underlying issues of fear and being isolated there that I'm going to need to mull over for longer, I think.
Just where I'm at right now.
Karen, it sounds like our paths have travelled a very similar road. I suppose that's why everything you write resonates so strongly with me. Well, that and you are a gifted communicator. Thanks so much for your thoughts!
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Karen E.
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We're leaving for the library shortly, so I'd better make this quick, but this is a topic I can't stay away from.
tovlo4801 wrote:
| Another thought. Even though taking time away occasionally is not an acceptable option for many women, the truth for my situation is that my husband was perfectly fine with it. |
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I agree that this makes a huge difference. My husband, too, is fine with it, and even encourages me to take time for myself. He and the girls have some wonderful Daddy/daughter times.
tovlo4801 wrote:
And I'm still working through the outside commitment issues. That needs to change, I'm sure of it, but I'm not exactly sure how it will look. There are some underlying issues of fear and being isolated |
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I should emphasize that the "outside commitment" thing is something I constantly discern, too. It's been very different for me at different seasons of my life. And even though I think of myself as having "no" outside commitments right now, I realize that what I mean by that, for me, is "no regular, weekly church committees." I do have a Moms Group that meets at my home bi-weekly, and on the in-between weeks, I've been trying to get a small homeschooling group going. My husband and I are also discerning whether or not we're being called to teach a baptism class at the parish (a commitment which would involve teaching only about four times a year.)
I do admit to feeling a bit "out of the loop" of our parish because I'm not currently involved in a weekly sort of meeting-thing. But, on the other hand, pulling back in that way has been good for my family, and I think it's what God has called me to do for awhile.
tovlo4801 wrote:
| Karen, it sounds like our paths have travelled a very similar road. I suppose that's why everything you write resonates so strongly with me. Well, that and you are a gifted communicator. Thanks so much for your thoughts! |
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You're very kind, Richelle. I also think we have a lot of similarities, and that's why I often relate to your posts.
It sounds as if you know what's both good and acceptable for you ... it was just a matter of verbalizing it.
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Karen E.
mom to three on earth, and several souls in God's care
Visit my blog, with its shockingly clever title, "Karen Edmisten."
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amyable
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tovlo4801 wrote:
| I was feeling like I had to be sacrificing every moment of every day or I just wasn't serving properly. I certainly didn't sacrifice all the time, but sure felt a great deal of guilt over my failure. I'm figuring out that I'm not actually asked to sacrifice all the time. I better be ready to when asked, but there is not the need to sacrifice something no one has asked me to give up. |
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Ahhh, THIS is where I get confused. I thought we were supposed to *totally* die to self. Am I wrong? Having a needy husband and 4 young girls there is not one moment where my family or household couldn't benefit from my giving them/it attention, even all night as the baby is quite attached, literally  . But if someone can prove to me that my perceived needs come before their needs - even their desires when it's just for more of my love and attention - then I'll be booking a nice day at the spa tomorrow
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The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
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kingvozzo
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tovlo4801 wrote:
I think I truly do need time away by myself to think with no secondary reason for that time. I take long walks by myself on Saturdays, but the secondary reason in exercise. I will have time alone in the car as I drive to run errands, but there is the secondary reason of errands. I listen to books on tape or music while I do my data-entry on the computer, but it's still primarily work time. I have multi-tasked ALL of my alone time. It is quite a lot of time actually, but none of it is as restorative as it needs to be because I'm still draining as I do it. I truly need time away with no other purpose but to allow me time to just sit and stare and think.
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Yes, I have often thought this myself. It seems like I'm multi-tasking myself to death, and there isn't anything that is really and truly JUST for me  But, then I think about how "worldly" these thoughts make me. It struck me particularly when we were reading the Little House books with my ds last year. I need to find the joy and peace in my service to my family, which is something I often struggle with.
When I read Holly Peirot's book, many things resonnated with me, but the idea of a Mother's Sabbath seemed a bit much. I think that if I took this time to myself, it would just mean more work later But, I'm not giving my dh enough credit either. He has encouraged me to take time to myself, but it does often take the form of going to the grocery by myself.
Sometimes, I even fantasize about being able to clean the bathroom by myself!!
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Noreen
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Karen E.
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amyable wrote:
Ahhh, THIS is where I get confused. I thought we were supposed to *totally* die to self. Am I wrong? |
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No, I agree we're supposed to totally die to self. Dying to self is a lifelong process. I do believe I'm being purified daily through motherhood and I'm the first to admit that I have miles to go before I sleep ....
amyable wrote:
| But if someone can prove to me that my perceived needs come before their needs - even their desires when it's just for more of my love and attention - then I'll be booking a nice day at the spa tomorrow |
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I look at it this way: I bear the responsibility to meet a true need of mine. I am the only one who can perceive what that is. If I'm perceiving faultily, then I fall into sin and selfishness. If I'm perceiving correctly, then I'm taking care of my family by meeting a real need. My children's and husband's needs come before my needs, and also before my desires, but sometimes my true needs come before their desires, if I can manage that without taking away from them.
All of this falls by the wayside when we have children who are literally attached. That's why I can't conceive of an overnight away from my 3 yr. old at this point ....
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Karen E.
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Willa
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Karen E. wrote:
| I also had the thought that God uses whatever vocation He's placed us in to purify us. For introverts who want a lot of time alone, it can be purifying to sacrifice some of that. Not the extent that we neglect our needs, but to the extent that we do make some sacrifices, if that makes sense. |
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I haven't finished reading the thread -- you ask MY questions so often, Richelle . But I think Karen is absolutely right.
In "The Temperament God Gave You" Laraine and Art said that Jesus had the perfectly balanced temperament. But at the same time, I do think that because He was human AND perfect, He had to work at it. I hope that doesn't sound strange -- I am thinking that sometimes He would be trying to withdraw from the crowd in order to pray, and He would be stopped by desperate, hungry, ill people. At other times He really wanted companionship and He was alone -- like in the Garden of Gethsemane "Will you not stay awake with me for one hour?"
Given that God has given us our temperaments, they are not bad. They are our orientation to life. But they shouldn't become excuses for sin or "attachments".
I found it SUCH a relief to read "The Introvert Advantage" because I realized that my seeming limitations were the reverse of the coin for the strengths I rely on daily. I think I would even like reading it if I were an extrovert, because it would help me understand myself and the introverts around me who talk with more difficulty, get tired more easily, focus on things in great depth, etc.
Then knowing that these things in themselves are the temperamental cards I've drawn, not virtues or sins in themselves, I can move from there to balance my introversion and drop a bit of the guilt and shame that used to make my school days miserable, and still come back to haunt me now and then.
Knowing this helps me work on coping mechanisms without beating myself up or wondering if I am crazy. I've already found several of her strategies to be helpful. Having those tools must be an aid to develop virtue and balance, I think. "know thyself.."
Now I think I'd better finish reading the thread.
__________________
AMDG
Willa
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guitarnan
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Willa's right; we don't pick our temperaments. We're given them at birth. A lifelong introvert like me CAN learn to enjoy giant Navy cocktail parties (it just takes 20 years of marriage to the World's Most Extroverted Man!). However, I know I'll always need my time alone with books, car trips and silence. I think it's talking that wears me down the most. When I read "Raising Your Spirited Child," I think I learned as much about my marriage as I did about my son. Now, when my husband is down, I have a party so he can recharge. (Even when I have NO desire to invite people over.)
I don't think it's a sin to know your needs and to fulfill them in a way that doesn't sacrifice your vocations as wife and mother. I don't go on long solitary mountain drives to recharge...I can't, because my family needs me here. I do read every day, and I do take time to sit away from the TV (dh and kids love TV!) to do this or to work on paperwork, writing, etc. while they enjoy "Daddy time." I don't feel guilty about this because I know I will be a better parent and spouse if I use that time wisely. Sometimes I'll "escape" to do the shopping (an hour's drive each way) by myself, but usually only when the kids are at an afternoon/evening event they would really enjoy even if I stayed at home.
Karen's example is excellent; of course you would want to put the needs of your child ahead of your own. However, kids can take advantage of parents, too, and they do need to learn that the universe doesn't revolve around them. They weren't created to be the center of everything. That's where true, loving discipline (not punishment!!!) comes in; we must guide them to see that each person has value, worth and importance, and asking Mommy to pick up our toys all day long or demanding 100% of parents' time isn't how life is supposed to go. I think it's OK to point out to older children that infants need 99% of Mommy's time, but 7-year-olds can do some things on their own (and should want to!).
God made you the way you are. He made me an introvert. As a native Californian introvert, I love driving down the highway with lots of 70's music, all alone...preferably along Pacific Coast Highway...but I'll take 15 minutes of guitar practice time, a few minutes on the front porch, etc. as recharge time.
I think, too, it's very, very valuable to have insight into your own temperament so that you can relate to the temperaments of other people in your life. My brother-in-law, for example, is a total introvert. Sometimes I find him hiding in the garage at family events. He knows I understand why he does this; I don't worry about his absences because I know that some gatherings are just too overwhelming for him. I know my husband needs HUGE social events to feel happy. (I am bracing for the "invite everyone in the command over for Christmas Open House Days" month already!) Not my preference, but I know it helps him, so we do it.
One last thing. I have learned to say, "I need some time to think about this," or, "I'm afraid I'll have to check with my husband," to give myself time and space to decide about social events, volunteer opportunities, etc. In my particular unpaid job as the commanding officer's wife, I am supposed to please everyone, help everyone, sustain everyone...this is hard when you're a homeschooling introvert Mom. So, I give myself enough space and time to figure out what I really can do, and do well...and I don't say yes to everything for myself or my family. It's OK to do this. The result of overcommitment, whether to events, organizations, or people, is either chronic illness or insanity. It's not a bad thing to avoid these effects by giving yourself control over your daily schedule.
The End.
__________________
Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Erica Sanchez
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| Posted: Nov 05 2005 at 6:08pm | IP Logged
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I shouldn't be reading these posts because guilt is starting to set in!!! Well, not too much guilt. Amy, I had a spa day just yesterday!! It was actually a reunion with my sorority friends from college that involved lunch and then an afternoon at a spa. This is our second such reunion and it seems they will continue annually from here on out. My children spent the day, in complete bliss, with their grandparents. That is a complete treat for them and I seriously don't think they minded being away from me for the day.
Now was this a need, a desire, a sin???? Do I need to be getting together with these women once a year? I'm sure our lives would go on without these reunions, but it was FUN! Could I have this much fun with my children and husband? Of course, and we do ALL THE TIME.
I have read all the posts and now as I am typing, I am getting a little confused. It seems we are questioning ourselves if and when we take time away from our family for whatever reasons; shopping/errands, spiritual, fun, or just to be alone. I just can't imagine any woman on this list who is selfish with her time. It seems the complete opposite. We give our whole lives to our children (many of us to many children!) simply by our choice to homeschool and be stay-at-home moms. And, give joyfully and whole-heartedly at that! We can't imagine our lives any differently. I'd rather die than send my children off to school each day!
Maybe I am missing something here. I am a complete extrovert and I enjoy great conversation with other women rather than spending time alone. I don't always get this from dh, which is O.K. Nancy, we're the opposite.....I'm the one planning the parties and dh would rather not have to host or attend another party in his life. He can be quite a fun and social guy, so sometimes this is hard to understand. Anyway, I absolutely love the occassional girls night out or time spent with my favorite sister. My college friends being the exception, this always involves Catholic women who typically homeschool. We are a network and support system for each other, much like this forum is.
I'm probably getting off track and my post is far from the deep and philosophical discussion above, but...
One more thought on my spa day yesterday. These women from my college days are great, but for the most part they can not comprehend my homeschooling and more-than-2-children life. They are so kind and really think I am a superhero for it. They ask me many questions and I try to answer as best I can without preaching. So, and maybe this is justifying a day at the spa, it was a fun day, but I was also able to evangelize a bit.
I'm going to re-read the posts, because I do want to understand this better and I certainly want to make sure my girls nights out or any other time away from my children and husband are not a sin.
__________________
Have a beautiful and fun day!
Erica in San Diego
(dh)Cash, Emily, Grace, Nicholas, Isabella, Annie, Luke, Max, Peter, 2 little souls ++, and sweet Rose who is legally ours!
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Karen E.
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| Posted: Nov 05 2005 at 7:15pm | IP Logged
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Erica Sanchez wrote:
| We give our whole lives to our children (many of us to many children!) simply by our choice to homeschool and be stay-at-home moms. |
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Erica,
I'm glad you said this. A couple of months back, when talking about selfishness to my spiritual director, he said very much the same thing.
Erica Sanchez wrote:
| And, give joyfully and whole-heartedly at that! We can't imagine our lives any differently. I'd rather die than send my children off to school each day! |
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Amen to that!
Erica Sanchez wrote:
I'm going to re-read the posts, because I do want to understand this better and I certainly want to make sure my girls nights out or any other time away from my children and husband are not a sin. |
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You did not commit a sin! Dying to self doesn't have to mean that we're unhappy. We're supposed to be joyful Christians!
I think we can easily slip into scrupulosity, precisely because we have given our lives in a huge, countercultural way to our families, and our faith is so important to us. It can make us examine things too closely. (My OCD tendencies play into this, too!)
I still maintain that a healthy balance is what God asks us of in our vocations as wives and mothers ... God created mental health -- He wants us to maintain it.
__________________
God bless,
Karen E.
mom to three on earth, and several souls in God's care
Visit my blog, with its shockingly clever title, "Karen Edmisten."
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tovlo4801
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| Posted: Nov 05 2005 at 7:46pm | IP Logged
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Karen E. wrote:
I still maintain that a healthy balance is what God asks us of in our vocations as wives and mothers ... God created mental health -- He wants us to maintain it.
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I'm going to try not to be muddled here, but be advance warned that I might not succeed. 
This is kind of what I was getting at when I posted about realizing that I was contemplating giving up things no one had asked me to give up.
Each one of our situations is different. Our needs are different and what we are asked to do is different. I have not been gifted with many children, but I have to work part time. This gives form to what will be asked of me. Others here are in different situations. Some will have husbands who'd rather their wives did not take time away and others will have husbands who encourage it. Some will WANT that time away and others will have a hard time imagining why others would want to go away. I was spending time looking at everyone else's situation and what was being asked of them. I was trying to emulate the requirements of their situation instead of looking closely at my own temperment and energy needs and talking with my husband about what he expected of me.
I think we are expected to totally surrender ourselves, but I think that means different things for different people. The action that might require very little sacrifice for one person might be a great sacrifice for another. So we can't look at one person who easily spends her days chatting and playing with her kids without expending much energy because she is charged by that interaction and compare it evenly with someone who is throwing their body on the cross every time they are asked to pull out of their thoughts and respond to a child's question. Both do it, but it actually might require different levels of sacrifice for that act. On the other hand for one mom it might be actually heavenly to avoid the hustle and bustle of the world by staying home with their kids and a much greater sacrifice for the mom who relishes the hustle and bustle and is throwing herself on the cross every day she gets up and turns her back on all the activity outside her door to meet her kid's needs.
I guess I'm just suggesting that we need to look at our individual situation when we consider what it means individually to totally surrender.
Does that make sense?
OK. On the balance front, I'm studying Theology of the Body this year with the couples study group in our parish. (Sex and the Sacred City by Bridegroom Press is FABULOUS btw) Last night at adoration I read something in the catechism that struck me on the balance front. I'm going to have to take it a little further down the road, but I think it applies.
364 ...For this reason man may not despise his bodily life. Rather he is obliged to regard his body as good and to hold it in honor since God has created it and will raise it up on the last day.
I think our mental state is similar. Our temperment is a physical thing. It is a result of how God physically created us. So I'm thinking now to despise the way he created us and to disregard the true needs of that temperment is confused unless it is clearly being asked. He created us in certain ways and if we know and understand the beauty included in our particular way of functioning, then we can hold that up in a gift of praise to God.
Probably terribly confused, but thought I'd give trying to express these thoughts a try.
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Introvert Advantage and sin
