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Erin
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| Posted: July 28 2008 at 3:29am | IP Logged
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I am asking for mil advice on behalf of my sister. She asked me to ask you ladies as she thought you may be able to help, I'm unsure as to what to advise.
A bit of background first, my sister is newly married, she married in February of this year, she married a man seventeen years older than herself. Sis turned 28 last week, her husband is 45, and his mother is 80. Until his marriage my bil had lived most of his life at home with his parents, caring for them in the last several years.
His mother is very strong, controlling and crosses boundaries all the time. Since their marriage his mother has entered a nursing home and after an initial period of adjustment is enjoying a new social life.
My sister writes:
Daphne gave me a card yesterday for my birthday. She signed it
“love from Nan and your darling husband Michael”
She did not discuss this with him and of course he didn’t ask her to.
She did this at Christmas but I turned a blind eye at the time as he was living with her.
Comments please……
then:
Yeah, I have to buy her a skillet (she went on and on about it yesterday) ASAP, so I don’t know if I should say something when I take it there. Michael was touchy about it when I talked to him about it, he didn’t like what she did, but I doubt he will say anything.
I am sick of her crossing boundaries but I don’t know what is important and not anymore as she gets away with everything. HELP…
Maybe your forum could help?
BTW – I got a bike for my b’day from Michael. (and a lovely card too – just from him) Daphne’s card kind of spoilt it a bit. Is that silly of me? It was my first birthday as his wife.
So what would you advise?
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Erin
Faith Filled Days
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SusanMc
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My advice? Ignore anything that doesn't draw blood or require stitches. 
Seriously, at age 80 it is highly unlikely that the MIL will change her ways anytime soon. While I understand being irked about the card, the skillet issue escapes me.
Either way, since her husband has cared for his mother thus far, I think the best option would be to continue to let him take the lead on providing things like skillets to his mother when needed. Her job is to support her husband and not create unecessary drama by dwelling on weird card signatures.
My MIL has odd (but different) boundary issues and the techniques I describe have kept family harmony.
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stefoodie
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I have an MIL who has boundary issues as well. When she lived with us and then when she moved out (we all three -- she, dh and I recognized that it wasn't going to work with all of us living together) she would do/say inappropriate things.
The most important thing for us was for DH to know the boundaries and make sure that no one was crossing those as much as possible. The bad thing about that is he has to absorb a lot of stuff. He also had to learn to ignore most complaints from her and just make sure she had what she needed.
As long as he and I understood each other, we were fine. MIL and I could then be civil to one another and just focus on pleasantries whenever we had to spend time together. I wanted us to have a great relationship but I realized quickly that almost nothing I did/said would please her; as soon as DH realized that too we then knew where we stood and could make decisions based on that. So our relationship wasn't ideal, but it worked for all of us. (She is now in another country so we hardly have to deal with her but for the occasional phone call.)
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stef
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PDyer
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| Posted: July 28 2008 at 9:45am | IP Logged
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Saint Monica had a difficult MIL. I have her story here, and in part it says,
Quote:
| "her mother-in-law treated her with suspicion and dislike... Monica did not seem to notice unkindness, repaying the many insults she received with little services tactfully rendered, but she felt it deeply." |
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Later, when her MIL has a change of heart,
Quote:
| "how had Monica repaid her unkindness? With never-failing charity and sweetness, with gentle respect and deference to her wishes, never trying to assert herself, never appealing to her husband to give her the place which of right belonged to her. She had been content to be treated as the last of the house. |
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As I read this, I am convicted that I need to print it out in BOLD CAPS put put it on my own refrigerator.  
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Patty
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Mackfam
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I just wanted to echo some of Stef's thoughts...I too have challenges with my MIL. We pray for her, and I love her dearly. I learned early on in my marriage that I would never be able to have a close relationship with shared values with her or my FIL.
The key has been communication with my husband. As Stef did, my husband and I talked together and made an agreement early on about things on which we would not compromise - intrusion of the husband/wife relationship (decisions, privacy) and issues of discipline and safety of the children. We simply try to be accomodating regarding all else. I'm certain we fail, but we try to love them and be examples of our faith and values.
It is so important for my husband and I to continue communicating together regarding his parents because the situations can be confusing.
I am sad when my husband has to bear the brunt of much suffering on our behalf or theirs, but he does so willingly and says it is his way of protecting his family.
My advice to her Erin? Invest some time right now with her husband setting priorities and boundaries. Once the two of them come to an agreement and are happy with a shared and mutual plan, little things like the signed card will be sad, but not an issue for family upheaval. Allow for the reality that his mom will often/always step over those boundaries in an attempt to exercise territorial rights over her son. Knowledge that she and her husband do not allow for those intrusions in private matters of their marriage is of comfort. Then, she can attempt to establish relationship in neutral areas - if she can find them. I pray often to St. Anne to help me find those safe areas of relationship to help me with my MIL.
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Jen Mackintosh
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folklaur
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Hmmmm....well she is 80. She is not going to change now, IMO. Her relationship with her son is pretty much established at this point, considering her age. She will really have to learn to just let things go, IMO. It isn't with getting upset about, really.
My MIL doesn't even know when my Birthday *is* and I have been married for a very. long. time. I did get a keychain once that MIL was upset that I wasn't wearing because she thought it was a necklace (it was on my keys). 
You just have to let things go. You will go crazy otherwise.
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PDyer
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cactus mouse wrote:
| Hmmmm....well she is 80. She is not going to change now, IMO. Her relationship with her son is pretty much established at this point, considering her age. She will really have to learn to just let things go, IMO. It isn't with getting upset about, really. |
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I agree, based on the examples given, and the fact she's 80, and living in a nursing home. Now if the MIL takes their children to movies the sister specifically asked they not attend or gives their children very inappropriate gifts, my advice would change. 
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Patty
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MommyD
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Ignore it, learn to laugh at it, chalk it up to old age, be glad she isn't living in their home .
Melissa
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Milehimama
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I'm on the other side of that problem - my husband was his mother's baby, and my MIL was the same age as my grandfather. She lived in assisted housing after being abandoned by my husband's father (at age 60+)
She drove me crazy! She would call and complain about her neighbors. She would not listen and gave the kids things they could not have (for health reasons, my oldest has a restricted diet), and I would have to take them away from him.
Any "free" time (my husband worked 6-7 days a week) always seemed to be taken up taking her shopping (she didn't drive, we had to take her to get food) or.. something. She enabled his sister who was a drug addict. I could go on and on and on.
She became very ill and died after a long stay in the hospital. I stayed with her - my husband could not be there so I went. I was with her - alone- when she died suddenly in her sleep.
I so deeply, deeply regret all of the times I saw her number on the caller id and didn't pick up. All of the times that I pushed and pulled my husband away from helping his mother, and the snipy comments I made when we were driving to pick her up - again.
Always, always err in charity. May God forgive me for my hardness of heart.
Don't take it personally, and try to appreciate the things you like about her (even if the only thing you like is that she raised your husband!)
Also, Mother Teresa's book "No Greater Love" is a great help.
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guitarnan
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You know, this MIL is undergoing serious separation anxiety of her own. She is bound to be difficult to deal with - she has spent her entire life, and it's a long one, doing things for her son and signing his name on cards.
Any marriage requires everyone - spouses, parents and in-laws, to make big adjustments, and it is hard. I know this from personal experience, and I've watched my parents try to adjust to their new daughter-in-law (who behaves a bit erratically but seems to really love my brother). It's a huge change. My brother married at 40, so I know a little bit about how this goes.
What I told my parents, and what I would tell your sister, is that certain boundaries do need to be established. No undermining parenting decisions (including when to become one). No criticizing church-going choices. No badmouthing behind the other spouse's back. No holiday gifts that parents have said they don't want grandma to give to their children.
The little things - they seem SO huge when the marriage is new. Rearranging cupboards - how that used to irk me. Now I've learned to appreciate my M-I-L's love of tidiness, because she cleans my whole house when she visits. It sparkles. I just put the glasses back my way after she leaves. Endless discussion of family members' personal affairs - still irks me, but I've learned after 23 years that there's often an appeal for help behind the quasi-gossip, and I listen carefully and bring my concerns to my husband, who decides how we'll deal with the underlying issues.
Everyone has to give when the family dynamic is rearranged - whether it's due to birth, marriage or death - and it can be a challenge. I wound up seeking counseling (with dh, from a wonderful Catholic counselor) to learn how to set limits and establish those critical boundaries. (Not just for MIL, but for my own parents, too.) It worked wonders, and I still draw upon the lessons I learned in those sessions. If things get too overwhelming or weird, I would suggest that your sister find a good counselor, who can help her look at the situation objectively and devise coping strategies.
I really appreciate Milehimama's post. She is so, so right. Once your loved ones are gone, you have to place your hope in Heaven and pray you'll see them again. Best to love people - and tell them you love them - while they're here.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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aussieannie
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I don't have parent in-laws as they had died before I met my husband but my dh does have to face that m-i-l thing, I just wanted to say it has been a most inspiring read, thank you!
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JodieLyn
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Usually the things people do are because of their experiences.. not only do you have habit to contend with.. but maybe she had a husband or father that never gave cards and she signed his name to keep your sister from feeling that same hurt. Even if it's not true.. if you can imagine something that would make what is done seem nice.. then you can handle it much better.
Like when you're driving and you imagine that the person that just cut you off was in a hurry because they were trying to get to a child that was hurt. You feel more empathy for the person and less anger.
DH and I gradually learned that we couldn't mention things that we were considering to parents.. once we'd made our decision we could tell them about it.. once it was a done deal.. or we'd get a great deal of unwanted advice.. it was easier to not mention things that we didn't want to argue about.. or had differing ideals.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
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juststartn
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No advice, as my ILs are both deceased (and have been since LOOONG before DH and I were married (they died in 1981 and 1988, and we married in 1995), and my parents are young enough to be my DH's oldest siblings...so their dynamic is a bit different too.
I think that the other ladies have given your sister some great advice. Set boundaries that they can stick with, TOGETHER...enforce them, and try and spin everything to the best.
And I will pray for her, and for her MIL. She's got to be going thru a lot right now, and old habits die hard. Esp given her DH's age and caretaking of his mother for so long...
Rachel
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Lara Sauer
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When my husband and I were first dating, my own mother gave me some great advice. She said that you don't just marry the son, but the whole family. At the time when we started dating, I was an ego-centric young 18 year old who thought that everything anyone did must have something to so with me (vanity, vanity, vanity!) Anyway, I was very intimidated by my future husbands mother and was concerned that we would never get along, but my mother's word just kept coming back to me. She did not have a very good relationship with her own mother-in-law, although as a testament to her own perseverance and silent suffering, none of us knew about the way she was treated by her mother-in-law until long after my grandmother had died. I have always appreciated this about my mom, because she allowed us all to have a nice relationship with our grandma that wasn't tainted by her pain.
However, I digress. What I would like to say is that I think the Holy Spririt really spoke to my heart one day after my husband and I had been dating for nearly 3 or 4 years. It dawned on me that he REALLY loved his mom (something to look for in a future husband!) and that if he loved her, there was no reason that I shouldn't. From that day on, I prayed this prayer: "Dear Lord, Greg loves his mother and honors her in obedience to your commandments. Please help me to see her through his eyes that I might love and honor her, too!"
God has indeed blessed that prayer and my husband and I will be married 17 years this coming August, and I can say with all sincerity that my mother-in-law truly one of the most beautiful and loving people I know. God is never outdone in generosity.
Peace.
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Martha
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I'm with Susan.
I'd let it all go and let her big boy son, my dh, deal with her.
If she wants a skillet, then let dh go get it.
I wouldn't be hateful, I'd just pass the message onto him that his mother apparently needs a skillet.
I'm not saying to refuse to speak to her or visit and such, or be cruel. Just saying you don't have to babysit her or take orders from her either.
I agree with others, it's highly unlikely mil is going to change, so the dil is going to have to adjust how she reacts and if she even wants to react to these things.
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Martha
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Barbara C.
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If all she has to worry about his her MIL signing her husband's names on cards, she should consider herself lucky. While my husband and I have lucked out with our MILs, both of my grandmothers were complete nightmares.
My mom's mom used to constantly say that my dad was an alcoholic (for having a few beers in the fridge that he only drank about three times a summer) and he (and us kids) were going to hell for being Catholic. And then she was always trying to manipulate and intimidate my mother, and would tell lies about us when she didn't get her way. She actually told people when my grandfather died that she expected all of her children to leave their spouses to come home and take care of her. My mom finally had to cut off contact with her for many years because she was making everyone miserable.
My dad's mom was very "opinionated" (as he honestly described her at her funeral recently), blunt, and paranoid. She was always criticizing everything my mother did and always harassing my dad to obey her opinions. She would yell at him and yell at him because she didn't like the clothes we wore (because they weren't from the 1940's) or my mom bought something necessary for the house with his agreement (she'll bankrupt you!!), and then he would come home and fuss at my mom. And to the day she died, he had a hard time going against her wishes, even when in the interest of her health and wellness he needed to do so.
All of the biggest problems my parents have had in their marriage were due to their mothers interfering. So like everyone else said: boundaries for the big stuff (kids, FINANCES, respect) and don't sweat the small stuff (signed cards). Keep other people's feelings in consideration, too.
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Barbara
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Erin
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Thanks ladies for all your varied advice  Such a difficult topic, truly I know with my own mil advice is good, we don't always know what we should or shouldn't say, how to deal with things appropriately.
Barbara, she has LOTS more to deal with from her mil, truly the boundary issues are enormous. This was what my sister was asking basically, which things are an issue and which aren't. (Btw the skillet ladies was a minor thing an irritation, and D INSISTED that it be my sister who picked that up not her son.)
Here is another boundary issue that sis had when she visited, D insisted she visit the man next door who had a bottle of wine for sis and her husband as a gift; He had a bottle of wine for me as a gift for something Michael and I did for him a few weeks ago. Anyway, I was barely in the door, when she told me to give him a kiss. I felt very pressured and uncomfortable. He is a nice old man but I have not been raised to kiss on demand. I feel it is a dangerous practise for children, and as an adult, feel it is an invasion of my boundaries. I kissed the man, and was nice about it to them, but don’t ever want to be put in that situation again
This is not the first time this situation has arisen, it is a constant thing. Now I told M that this is a time to stand up and draw boundaries, but then how to do it, how do you draw boundaries with someone who really doesn't get it/ or want to. Different family cultures is what we are talking about here and not always easy to meld together.
I ask this on my own behalf now, and I'm sure many of you have struggled with this problem. How to we assert our boundaries lovingly, nicely but firmly? What if the other person doesn't respect our lines?
My husband's take on many mil issues (my own or anyone else's) is a very male approach It is 'their problem, it only becomes my problem if I allow it.' I find this very helpful to remember and over time have learnt to let many things just 'roll off'. (taken a few years to get there) but... sometimes we do have to set boundaries. Sometimes we do have to be assertive, this is where he and I can differ as to what is an issue, and I would hazard a guess to say we are not the only ones.
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Erin
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PDyer
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Erin wrote:
Now I told M that this is a time to stand up and draw boundaries, but then how to do it, how do you draw boundaries with someone who really doesn't get it/ or want to.
I ask this on my own behalf now, and I'm sure many of you have struggled with this problem. How to we assert our boundaries lovingly, nicely but firmly? What if the other person doesn't respect our lines? |
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Just like that -- lovingly, nicely and firmly, over and over again if necessary. Say "I prefer to shake hands" rather than kissing someone she's uncomfortable kissing. Say "we'll take care of getting you a skillet" and then send it with her husband, if it's that important to her that she not bring the skillet.
Just DO it, and don't expect her to respond positively immediately (or at all). Some people never get it, and sometimes more drastic action has to be taken (I'm thinking along the lines of limiting contact for a time), but I would save that for major issues.
She may want to look into some books like How to Hug a Porcupine, God Help Me! These People Are Driving Me Nuts or Boundaries.
I'm sorry she's going through this. It is very difficult. The most important thing is that she and her husband be on the same page; it is incredibly damaging otherwise.
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Patty
Mom of ds (7/96) and dd (9/01) and two angels (8/95 and 6/08)
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CrunchyMom
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I think the other advice is good. I think that Patty has it right that you charitably act in the way you are comfortable. Don't argue about it, just do it.
My dad and his new wife read this book when learning to deal with her mother at the start of their relationship. Her mother was pretty awful. It wasn't just a boundary thing, she was mean and nasty about it. She is a very sweet lady, and I have no idea how her mother could be as unkind AND demanding as she was!
Coping With Your Difficult Older Parent
I have not read the book myself, but my dad said it helped them. He didn't agree with part of the premise that they *can't* change, but overall, its advice for dealing with the fact that they are unlikely to change was helpful.
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Lindsay
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JodieLyn
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Quote:
| Say "I prefer to shake hands" rather than kissing someone she's uncomfortable kissing. |
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And quickly introduce another topic..
"I'd prefer to shake hands" (and then do so in a friendly manner without waiting for agreement) and start talking about something else WHILE you're doing it. Don't stand around waiting for approval or argument.
Even if it's just.. grab the hand and shake it oh thank you mr so-n-so for the lovely gift. Hasn't the humidity been awful? we like to be able to sit outside occationally but with this humidity... blah blah blah
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: M-i-l advice please.
