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chicken lady
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| Posted: Nov 14 2007 at 2:20pm | IP Logged
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my oldest dd has been going to a literature coop weekly. She really enjoys the class and is doing quite well. Her one complaint is that there are these 2 girls there who are not very nice. I pretty much ignore this, tell her just to be charitable, turn the other cheek etc. Then yesterday I am talking to the mom who teaches the class and she tells me these girls are really being cruel to the other girls and she does not know what to do. These girls belong to families we know, and it is awkward. So I say a prayer to the Holy Spirit and call one of the moms that I know fairly well. I explain that it seems OUR girls are not getting along, perhpas we could get them together outside of class, so they can get to know each other better and perhaps end these bad feelings. To this I was met with, "well Molly I think the problem is you are one of those types of HSers, that always wesar dresses and my girls don;t want to be associated with that type"! I am speechless, first that someone would even admit that they felt this way and secondly that another mom would not want her dc to be charitable to everyone, even if we are "those types".
We have many friends who don;t wear dresses, we are not judging anyone, how do you respond? My dh said that it was so irrational that there is no use talking with her. I guess he is right, I am just shocked!
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Nov 14 2007 at 2:36pm | IP Logged
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yep.. probably no use.. but I may have said something at that point about well that's fine, I don't feel the need to associate with you, but your daughter needs to be more polite in class.
And the teacher should address this to the parents really. The behavior is inappropriate to the classroom.. and after being warned they should be asked to leave if they can't curb this.
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Martha
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I agree with Jodie.
The teacher should simply say very clear and point blank that if they can't say something nice, they should not say anything at all and then divide the rude girls up. It's amazing how much bullying and nastiness can be put to a stop by removing the support system.
Kids will do these things and be cruel, that's just what kids at times. All kids have their less than appealing moments. That's why they have parents.
Honestly, I wouldn't be bothered in the least that the girls were doing this. I would be furious that they were getting away with it and worse, that the parents basicly seem to think it's okay to act like that.
If mom wants to let them be that way, well that's her mistake to make, but the girls will quickly catch on that other kids and teachers will not and you can rest assured their behavior will likely change in class.
Assuming their mother isn't oneof those who is offended when people don't accept her girls bad behavior - in which case it's likely she'll chose to leave the group.
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kingvozzo
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Wow, Molly! I'm shocked, really, that a grown woman would speak like that, and I'm sorry that you had to have that said to you. With that type of talk coming from the mother, it's no wonder the daughter is being mean.
But, I second what Jodie said, although I'm never quick-thinking enough to say those things when they're needed. Personal feelings are irrelevant to the basic courtesies expected in a co-op situation.
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KackyK
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| Posted: Nov 14 2007 at 3:29pm | IP Logged
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Wow Molly! I gasped when I read what she said to you...where did that come from???
Yikes!
I know my dh would say EXACTLY what your dh said...I think it is a gift (sometimes a gift) that men can so easily say, well she's being irrational, forget her and then go on their way. We women can't just do that...I think!
I agree that the big thing is what is the teacher going to do about it. You tried and obviously got nowhere with the mom. So it really is up to the teacher to separate them or something. And I don't know how your dd feels about it, but she may really have to stick her neck out and let them know what they are doing is wrong. Martha is right, it seems like now it is up to the kids and teacher to point this out to them and maybe some negative feedback will help to curb it.
Good luck!
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Angie Mc
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Sheesh...as if life isn't difficult enough. Although I find the mom's reponse irrantional AND unkind, I am not at all surprised. Maybe I'm battle-worn but from my experience, these types of comments are commonplace among homeschoolers and need not be taken personally. (Unkindness happens other places too but when they are connected to a parish or faith-based group they are even more biting and frustrating to me.) Molly  , I'm sorry that you were the recipient of a lack of courtesy, but I give you credit for trying and I do think your dh is right about not trying again  . I'll pray that the teacher does her job and takes care of this classroom concern.
Love,
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chicken lady
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I told my friend (who is also having difficulties with these girls) what the mom said to me. After she picked her jaw off the ground, she said, "thats it, my girls are wearing skirts to that class from now on". 
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Cay Gibson
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I agree 100% with what Angie wrote. This type behavior happens everywhere the world over. We live in a fallen, fallen world.
God help us all. It just hurts us worse than it does our children.  Think of Mary at the cross and pray for perserverance.
Will you continue with the class, Molly? Does your dd want to continue?
Life is so hard, isn't it.
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chicken lady
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| Posted: Nov 14 2007 at 4:37pm | IP Logged
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Cay Gibson wrote:
Will you continue with the class, Molly? Does your dd want to continue? |
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Yes, we will continue, Flannery has really learned ALOT! I think this is a great opportunity to grow in virtue. Because the dear teacher, who is actually on this board, is very sensitive to the situation, it will be OK.
I was just shocked to have someone openly confess this prejudice to me. It is an eye opener, sometimes I think I live in a bubble, where I just don't think people act like this
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Rachel May
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I'm incensed for you!
My sister was telling me about a similar situation recently where her daughter was the problem and was asked to leave. It was difficult for her, but she understood why and agreed. (It doesn't sound like this lady will be as rational!) The one comment that my BIL had was that the behavior was tolerated by the teachers for a while before it was addressed, and it was never mentioned to him or my sister until my niece was asked to leave the group.
I thought the lesson was a good one that when we are the authority, we have to make it clear that certain behavior is unacceptable even if it is hard for us to do it. Which I guess takes us back to Jodie's post. It was really an issue the teacher should have and should now deal with.
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Martha
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I guess I'm not bothered by the prejudice? Others are right, these things are everywhere. And really, her girls are entitled to decided there's certian people they don't want to "be associated with".
That really doesn't matter though. What bothers me is the opinion that not wanting to be friends means it's okay for them to be "turdy" as my husbands' grandfather puts it. Not agreeing or wanting to be buddies with someone is perfectly fine, but common curtesy is a requirement as christians and in most group settings.
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mimmyof5
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I was wondering if this was a Catholic or Christian book club? Because that attitude certainly isn't Christian. This kind of behavior among homeschoolers is so upsetting. We've had it happen to us - only in our case it was because we were in jeans. The family didn't know us that well, and the few times we had met on field trips we had jeans on. If they were to come by today they would find us all in dresses.
Even so, how does this excuse their rude behavior? When people act this way so often it is because they feel threatened by something - nothing you did but by their own insecurities.
I'm glad you're looking at positively and seeing it as an opportunity for your dd to grow in virtue. God gives us so many opportunities in life! 
Janet
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lapazfarm
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It sounds to me as if the apple didn't fall far from the tree. If the parent is rude enough to say such things to you, then you cannot really expect anything better from the child.
I agree with your husband that you may as well write her off as a lost cause and focus your energies on helping your daughter deal with it in a positive way.
Hopefully the teacher can find a way to curb the in-class behaviors of the mean girls, but it does not sound like she will get much parental support for it.
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SallyT
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Drives home the importance of character training, doesn't it . . .
I'm currently teaching a co-op literature class for high-schoolers, and so far we haven't had that problem, but I can think of things that would help:
1) this is a "for next time," since obviously it's too late this time: have all participants in the co-op sign a parent/student contract spelling out policies, including policies for behavior and other issues, and consequences for non-compliance. Having had people sign something makes it easier to deal straightforwardly with problems when they occur. Spelling things out on the front end also gives parents a chance to decide whether they are going to make their kids comply with the rules, and decline to participate if they don't like what's been laid out for them. This kind of goes against our relaxed grain as homeschoolers sometimes, but I am very glad we did this in the co-op I'm teaching in and administering.
2. The teacher needs to separate the girls if their ganging up is a problem in class. Outside class she may not be able to do that much, but in class, having a zero-tolerance policy for any kind of rude or negative behavior seems warranted. She can also opt to speak to them outside class, one on one, and say that she's noticed such-and-such happening, that she feels it's detrimental to the class, and it must stop, or the girl will not be able to participate, because the teacher can't let people treat each other badly.
I am so sorry your daughter is having to deal with this treatment (and you, too!) in what sounds like an otherwise terrific experience. One thought I'm having, as much as I love doing our co-op, and my daughter loves it, too, is that I remember now why we didn't like going to school . . . even in a group where things are going smoothly, negotiating differences between families and their ways of doing things is always an exercise in diplomacy . . .
Praying for you.
Sally
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Nina
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Wow!Such blatantly rude behavior.You somewhat have to feel sorry for the girls-to have such a mother.
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Kristie 4
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You were much more gracious than I believe I would have been- and have been so much of a help steering your daughter through all this.
I have also noticed at our hs chess club group a handful of children who are borderline rude to me on a regular basis. It is so hard to see- not that mine are perfect all the time, but there is that edge with these children.
But I agree with Theresa, I don't think you'll have a lot of luck with the girl's mother, unless you two were much better acquainted.
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: What do you say to this....
