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Maria B.
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| Posted: March 22 2007 at 3:31pm | IP Logged
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Along the same lines as the thread about Ruth's family's reaction and everyone sharing their family/faith situations, I would like to go out on another tangent. How do you handle siblings/family members who have chosen immoral lifestyles or choices for themselves and their children? It pains me to use my sister as an example, but it is reality. Her first marriage was annulled. She is now living with the guy she is marrying the day after Easter. Her boys live with both parents on and off and are being raised with very few values and little faith (Mass on Sunday and nothing else). As little guys, they were playmates with my kids. As time goes one, it is getting more and more difficult to be around my sister and her boys and shield all of this from my kids. The older ones are mature and well formed enough to handle all this. It is the little ones that I am so concerned about. I don't want to be uncharitable to my sister, but I also want to protect the innocence of my children.
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Maria in VA
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msclavel
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| Posted: March 22 2007 at 4:46pm | IP Logged
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Maria, I wrote a REALLY long post detailing the problems we've had with my husband's family. Details don't matter. I know how hard it can be. My husband, who has dealt with all that dysfunction a long time has hardened his heart  and is willing to just walk away. I'm torn...no advice..many understanding prayers.
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chicken lady
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| Posted: March 22 2007 at 6:43pm | IP Logged
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NO advice just prayers and sympathy
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juststartn
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| Posted: March 22 2007 at 8:00pm | IP Logged
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I've got a sister living with her second man...they are supposed to be getting married in October. I made the mistake of letting her (them) have the older two dds go visit (while DH has been deployed and I desperately needed a break).
I have since realized my error and am now trying to keep from making hard feelings and still not let my girls go down there to visit again.
And it has since come to light that she fully intends to use any opportunities I give her to undermine my and DHs parenting decisions.
I have been placed in a bad position, mostly due to my own poor decision making in the past...it's not going to be pretty, when I keep putting my foot down. At least, she's really busy planning her five-six figure wedding so hopefully there won't be too many invites between now and then....and after that? Well, I can figure something out.
But yeah. How does one deal? None of the rest of my family is Catholic--or even a practicing Christian of any stripe. So its not like I can appeal to them on moral grounds.
SIGH
((HUGS))
Rachel
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saintanneshs
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| Posted: March 23 2007 at 1:09am | IP Logged
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I'm so sorry you're going through this, Maria. Is there any such thing as a PLEASANT confrontational discussion between siblings? Oh, it's so hard, I know.
I'm in the same boat. A very sad, frustrating situation for everyone in my family except the one who is choosing to live in sin. Basically, I'm handling things the way my mom did when she was in my shoes. I try to make my position known as gently and yet as assertively as possible, without sounding "holier than thou." I think the wrong tone in any discussion would just harden hearts instead of softening them. I love our old priest's tactic of softening up someone who had dissenting (and often LOUD) opinions by asking them reflective questions which would somehow always lead back to the Catholic church's answers, rather than the ones the challenger was throwing out in the beginning of each discussion. Somehow, if Father only asked questions and didn't really spell out any answers and let the challenger talk long enough, that person with the dissenting theories would just talk himself into a circle and realize that his answers were bogus, all on his own. It was amazing to watch this in action.  (and very humbling)
I don't have the gift of using that tactic, so I rely on my mom's example.
Growing up, we had a cousin and an aunt who were living with someone. As kids we weren't allowed to stay the night with them and when they visited and stayed the night with us, Mom insisted on the couples maintaining seperate sleeping spaces while under her roof. Her house, her rules. She didn't even have a discussion about it with them, just made up 2 beds and "showed them to their rooms" (where they could lay their things) when they arrived. Neither of the couples was daring enough to try to persuade her otherwise, (I think they knew the visit would go better if they just went along with her, thankfully).
I hope I'm as kind and gracious ("love the sinner, hate the sin") as my Mom was. I try to be polite and kind without allowing my children to be present for discussions of the couple's "home." Unfortunately, I don't feel comfortable going for a visit but if we absolutely had to (meaning it would be uncharitable to the family member involved for me to exclude my family from a major event), there would definitely be some focused family discussion of the wrongness and sin of living with another woman (or man) without being married to them. I think I'd keep it simple. The less details my kids know, the better. After all, I love this family member and don't want to disparage his character, even though sometimes I think he's determined to do it himself. I suppose I'd rather focus on loving others in spite of their sins, even mortal sins, hoping that our prayers and our mortifications might win them over, rather than laying down ultimatums and severing all ties for the sake of being right. I suppose some would disagree and think severing all ties would be the only way to protect their children. I wanna preserve my children's innocence but I also want to preserve their relationship with an otherwise WONDERFUL uncle who is making a terrible decision, who without our prayers and example and spiritual encouragement might not make it into heaven. He's part of our journey too.
Mom and I are praying for him and I encourage my kids to do the same (although they don't really know why they're praying, just that this family member "needs our prayers to help him make good decisions that would please God").
I've babbled long enough. 
I hope this helps.
I'll add your sister to my prayers.
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Martha
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| Posted: March 23 2007 at 9:13am | IP Logged
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I decided some time ago not to expose my children to toxins. I don't put them in a room with drano or a bug bomb and, unfortunately, I can't put them in a room with my side of the family either. They are toxic people.
There's wiccans, drug dependency, adultury, sick manipulators, and worse, and just hateful people. I don't want them poisoning my children. They are a miserable lot of people who cannot bear to be miserable alone. If given the chance their misery can seep into other's lives just like a slow poison. 
I am not mean to them in word or deed, but I no longer keep contact with them. I don't feel my heart is hardened towards them. It is simply softer when it comes to my children and prayers are just as effective from a distance.
It should be noted that once they accepted I wasn't going to be their punching bag or doormat and wasn't going to argue the point either - they suddenly didn't seem to care anymore. I took away their misery spreading enjoyment, so they want as little to do with me as I do with them at this point.
I don't know if your situation warrants this or not. Let your children and your family history and prayer guide your actions. If you sincerely feel they are a danger to the marriage and famiy you have - then do whatever you feel you have to without guilt and in prayer.
If the family is your spouse's - listen to him. He's been with them a lot longer than you and may have a truer perspective on what is best.
God bless.
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Martha
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msclavel
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| Posted: March 23 2007 at 9:46am | IP Logged
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Martha-
Very wise! You've given me a new perspective on where my dh is coming from. I think toxic is just how he would describe what his family is capable of doing.Thank you for sharing.
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hylabrook1
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| Posted: March 23 2007 at 11:11am | IP Logged
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Martha -
Amen!
Peace,
Nancy
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Ruth
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Hi Maria,
Like I've said before, my brothers accuse us of being selfish because of our lifestyle. Every time we see them, they ask when we're going to put the kids in school. All of our sibblings live very openly sinful lives. Our parents aren't a great example either. We choose not to let our kids spend any unsupervised time with any of our family members. That doesn't stop them from asking us to let us keep some of our kids for a week every summer. The answer is always no. I tell them flat out, we don't have the same views, so we can't allow the kids to stay with them. The answer usually is, "Let me have those kids for a week, and you'll see how they straighten out."  You'd think my kids are little monsters, with those comments. They're just as active and bicker just as any normal kids, I hope 
I agree with Martha. I think people can sometimes be toxic for our souls. Good luck and I'll be praying for you and all our families facing this cross. God bless you.
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Ruth
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Nina Murphy
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Sigh.....I'm not going to open my mouth on this one, as the wounds are just too raw; but prayers, sympathy, and and I agree with everything said. I am almost tearful reading Martha's post....I have tried that with the "avoiding toxins" approach and it seemed to have devastating effects on pushing people into deeper, darker holes, so I stopped it and returned to more leeway....it is a very difficult dilemma for all of us to be in...I am looking forward to hearing any more wisdom on how you wise women feel about this question.
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Nina Murphy
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| Posted: March 23 2007 at 1:50pm | IP Logged
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Ruth wrote:
We choose not to let our kids spend any unsupervised time with any of our family members.
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I'm getting sad (sorry for sounding self-piteous ). We had made this decision, and then went back on it to keep the peace because we were so attacked and the alienation led to terrible things. Now I'm questioning myself again.
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~~Nina
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Nina Murphy
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| Posted: March 23 2007 at 1:52pm | IP Logged
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Maria B. wrote:
| The older ones are mature and well formed enough to handle all this. It is the little ones that I am so concerned about. I don't want to be uncharitable to my sister, but I also want to protect the innocence of my children. |
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And honestly, I don't think my older one ARE mature enough to handle it, actually, as their emotions are very involved.
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God bless,
~~Nina
mother of 9 on earth,
and 2 yet-to-be-met
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msclavel
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| Posted: March 23 2007 at 6:03pm | IP Logged
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Oh Nina, I go back and forth on all this too. Right now, my husband has decided that our children will not spend time with my in-laws alone in their house. Part of the problem is my mil and the other part is my bil and his son. My in-laws live in this bil's house. My mil freely chose this living situation despite my husband's and mine's cautions against it. I know it breaks her heart. But she consistently chooses in favor of her other son and grandson to the detriment of our children. She will not change. Faced with that, my husband really felt that this is the only option to protect our children right now. And my concern is that my older children are no longer oblivious to the ugliness.We are primarily concerned about our nephew's inappropriate behavior in front of our children, especially directed at my 11 yo dd. This kid is nearly 15, so it is more serious than an undisciplined little boy.
We have to deal with all of them next weekend at my sil's house. The stress of making sure my nephew is not alone with any of my kids is nearly unbearable. Not to mention my bil's drinking. When all of this initially came to the surface around Christmas , we tried to be discreet, so as to protect my bil and nephew's feelings. However my mil felt the need to make sure they both knew how "unchristian" we were being, so let's just say my bil, not a forgiving person in general, is not going to be a pleasant man to be around. I am not kidding when I say I'm going to need this full week of prayer to get ready.
Well, enough...I hate to be negative. My family life growing up was so completely the opposite of what my dh grew up with, like I said, I don't get it sometimes.
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hylabrook1
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| Posted: March 23 2007 at 6:27pm | IP Logged
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Maria -
I will be praying for you this week especially, and next weekend as well. This situation sounds both touchy and scary.
Peace,
Nancy
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Nina Murphy
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| Posted: March 23 2007 at 7:15pm | IP Logged
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Thank you--I'm sorry for the drama, but it is what it is. Well, it certainly *was* a few months ago but is better now (for *now*) since I placated....if that is the right word...tolerated is probably a better one...I hope not: encouraged. ? But probably all three in some way. Oh well, can't really get into it. But I certainly do appreciate you others discussing it here and hearing how others have worked it out for themselves. And I've appreciated all the prayers during this past year for our family from all of you dear people.
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God bless,
~~Nina
mother of 9 on earth,
and 2 yet-to-be-met
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Dealing with difficult family situations
