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mooreboyz
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| Posted: March 28 2011 at 6:41am | IP Logged
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Hi,
We decided not to vaccinate our kids for chicken pox. We had thought that they would get them in time and would then have a better immunity. My oldest is turning 14 next month and still hasn't had them. I'm wondering now if I should have him vaccinated. I'd like to hear any useful information you all can offer...please don't turn this into a debate on vaccinations.
I've searched the net and haven't found anything really helpful. My concerns are that chicken pox seems to get worse as you get older and there is talk of even sterility, but I don't know if there is truth to this. On the other hand they still don't know how long the vaccine lasts. Would you have to get boosters every 10 years for the rest of your life?
Thanks everyone.
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Jackie
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Bridget
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So far I haven't faced this but my plan is that if I have a child who reaches 16 without getting the disease, i will vaccinate. But then, yes, my understanding is that they will need boosters.
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Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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hylabrook1
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| Posted: March 28 2011 at 9:43am | IP Logged
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One thing about waiting/hoping that your dc will get *real* chicken pox is that, since most people are vaccinated, there is very little of the actual illness going on out there. No one to catch it from!
Actually, 5 of my 6 have had it. The first four at the same time, when there were only 4 children. Then #5 got it all by herself, and we worked really hard to expose #6 to it. She didn't get it from her sister. So, at age 14, the dr.checked her for immunities and she had none! The doctor was very surprised. But at that point we vaccinated. Our pediatrician had gotten chicken pox as an adult (during his residency from exposure to patients) and was extremely sick, developing a bad pneumonia. He felt strongly that it was a good idea to either have the illness or be vaccinated before reaching adulthood.
Just our experience...
Peace,
Nancy
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We're in the same boat you are, Jackie.
Our priest had chicken pox in high school and told us of some of his extreme complications, and my dad, an immunologist, has conveyed some of the very serious complications that can result from teen/adult exposure and contracting of varicella (chicken pox). We had a conversation about this not too long ago in relation to the requirements of vaccinations for nursing students in the small Catholic liberal arts university he teaches at.
This vax is a live, attenuated virus, therefore only a person with a strong immune system should receive this vaccine. This vaccine is absolutely NOT for anyone with an egg allergy/sensitivity. Just mentioning so that if there are concerns you can be sure to speak with a pediatrician/doctor that understands your concerns.
Another benefit from the vax as opposed to acquiring natural immunity seems to be that persons are less likely to contract shingles having been vax against varicella. Obviously, this is not an across the board thing, but there seems to be enough evidence to suggest a strong trend.
The boosters aren't necessarily needed. Following those that received the first vaccinations (25 years ago), many of them still maintain immunity. It's a two shot series initially - but beyond that, boosters are probably not necessary. Blood tests are the clearest indicator of necessity though.
We are prayerfully considering the vaccine for our 14 yo at this point. Like you, I still have a little more research I'd like to look into, but hopefully my little start in researching this can be a help.
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Jen Mackintosh
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CrunchyMom
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Jen, my understanding is that the way the chicken box virus works is that you maintain your immunity by being periodically exposed which is why shingles emerges if one's immunity declines, presumably as an attempt of the virus to reintroduce itself.
So, is it possible that the reason the booster was not needed for those receiving the original vax 25 years ago is that not many people in the following years were getting it, and they were being exposed. So, now that the majority of people are vaccinating, and it is harder to catch the virus, people will not be exposed regularly enough to maintain their immunity, and the booster will become more important?
If my theory is true, it really doesn't change one's decision in this regard becaue that regular exposure would be needed and harder to get regardless of whether you had the disease or were vaccinated. I'm just trying to correctly apply your Dad's shared knowledge to my own understanding.
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Christine
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Chicken pox has been going around Washington state since January. We chose not to get the Varicella vaccine. All of my children have now had the chicken pox virus. My oldest child with chicken pox was 12. I know teenagers and adults (a friend and a priest) who got chicken pox with absolutely no complications. I also know a child who was vaccinated and still contracted chicken pox. The downside to my children getting the chicken pox is that some of them now have scars.
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Mackfam
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CrunchyMom wrote:
| Jen, my understanding is that the way the chicken box virus works is that you maintain your immunity by being periodically exposed which is why shingles emerges if one's immunity declines, presumably as an attempt of the virus to reintroduce itself. |
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It's a bit of a mixed bag, Lindsay, and there's not a way to tell which type of immune response a given individual might have once exposed (and this goes for exposure via natural circumstances or exposure via the vax). For most, introduction to the disease (whether through another infected person, or through the live vaccine) results in lifelong immunity, in other words, the body recognizes the disease, builds sufficient antibodies against it, and you're done. For some, the virus remains latent in the person and re-emerges years later as shingles. I don't understand enough of the immune response vocabulary to understand why this is, and it's my understanding that those that are immunologists don't necessarily know why this happens either, but the trend is such that those exposed to the vax with subsequent immunity do not present with the latent virus later on, and have maintained a sufficient antibody count to quantify as *immune to the disease*.
CrunchyMom wrote:
| So, is it possible that the reason the booster was not needed for those receiving the original vax 25 years ago is that not many people in the following years were getting it, and they were being exposed. So, now that the majority of people are vaccinating, and it is harder to catch the virus, people will not be exposed regularly enough to maintain their immunity, and the booster will become more important? |
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That's a good question, and my answer is I don't *think* so...but I'm not an immunologist. So, take everything I offer with a big grain of salt!!! Those that have been exposed to the disease are (sometimes) tested for antibody response - the result of this is a qualitative result (In other words --> IMMUNE OR NOT) which is based on a quantifiable result from the lab (so many parts per million antibodies to varicella). The result from this test doesn't necessarily indicate waning immune response...just that you have sufficient antibodies present or not. If an individual that received the vax 25 years ago is tested, and has sufficient antibodies to generate an IMMUNE response, then that is a reflection of their own immune response to the introduction of the disease. This however does not preclude the possibility that a person, vax 25 years ago, could have encountered the disease again, generated another (likely mild) response to the disease and therefore built immunity further. Does this make sense? From my understanding, it isn't necessary to have continuous exposure to this virus to continually build or sustain immunity. Edited to say....that though it isn't always the case/norm (that continuous exposure is necessary for consistent immunity), it IS true that some do experience a declining in their immunity to the disease, prompting a reactivation of the virus resulting in shingles.
Clear as mud??? I'll try to explain further if I can...or clarify if I didn't really address your concern, Lindsay.
CrunchyMom wrote:
| I'm just trying to correctly apply your Dad's shared knowledge to my own understanding. |
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Hey, me too!!! Not sure if any of this helps!! Again, I hope that some of this information might be useful for consideration as each parent seeks in prudence the best answer for their family. 
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Jen Mackintosh
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CrunchyMom
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Christine wrote:
| Chicken pox has been going around Washington state since January. We chose not to get the Varicella vaccine. All of my children have now had the chicken pox virus. My oldest child with chicken pox was 12. I know teenagers and adults (a friend and a priest) who got chicken pox with absolutely no complications. I also know a child who was vaccinated and still contracted chicken pox. The downside to my children getting the chicken pox is that some of them now have scars. |
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It is going around, but it used to go sound s lot more  I never thought I'd have to worry that my children WOULDN'T get sick.
Though, I suppose that is something that was more common before so many childhood diseases were vaccinated against. My dad tells that his mom actually put him to bed with his cousin when his cousin got the mumps! My dad never did catch it, though, but it's possible he gained his immunity through exposure without actually coming down with the sickness 
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Lindsay
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Mackfam
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CrunchyMom wrote:
| It is going around, but it used to go sound s lot more I never thought I'd have to worry that my children WOULDN'T get sick. |
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This is exactly what I thought. I just thought we'd encounter it somewhere, be exposed and be done. Yet...here we are...with my oldest 14 yo, and no exposure thus far. Thus, I can really relate to Jackie's question and concern!!!
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Jen Mackintosh
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mooreboyz
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I'm glad to hear a lot of conversation on this. I did some soul searching too about what my real concerns were and I asked myself..."are you worried about them being uncomfortable, sick, etc?" and to that no, I'm not. My kids are very healthy and strong. My concern is this voice that was planted long ago that said boys will go sterile if they get it after puberty. Well, I searched that and it sounds like that is extremely rare. Also, it seems that the US boosters at age 20 while Canada boosters at 12 years. So, I wonder if this means that they would need boosters every 10-15 years throughout their life. I'm leaning towards going without the vaccine at the moment. But, I am anxious to hear more input here or to review any info you all can send my way.
Thanks again for the great discussion on this!
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Jackie
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Jackie,
The complications from Herpes Zoster (varicella/chicken pox) from a virology article (this is a technical article, but very informative):
Quote:
2. Complications of Herpes Zoster
1. Secondary bacterial infection - as in the case of chickenpox, mild secondary infection of the vesicular lesions is common.
2. neuralgia - postherpetic neuralgia is the most common and important complication of herpes zoster. Most patients experience severe constant pain at the site of the lesion but it usually remits within 2 to 3 weeks. However, in some patients, a chronic disabling neuralgia occurs. Most of these patients (80%) improve and recover over one year. In others, the pain is so severe and unremitting that it may lead to suicidal tendencies.
3. Encephalitis - this is a very rare complication of herpes zoster. Other rare CNS manifestations include motor neuropathies, myelitis, Guillain-Barre syndrome and contralateral hemiparesis associated with ophthalmic zoster have been reported.
4. Disseminated herpes zoster - disseminated zoster is much more likely to occur in immunocompromised individuals. The patient is likely to be extremely ill, often with visceral involvement but the outcome is rarely fatal.
5. Occular Zoster - the presentation of ophthalmic zoster is complex because many structures of the eye can be involved ie. the eyelid, conjunctiva, sclera, cornea and iris. Fortunately, blindness following herpes zoster is rare. Anterior uveitis and kerititis are the most common intraocular complications. Sight threatening complications include neuropathic keratitis, perforation, secondary glaucoma, posterior scleritis, optic neuritis and acute retinal necrosis. |
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Nowhere in any of my researching have I encountered the idea of sterility as a possible complication.
If you read about this online, and there are several articles that could be helpful, it's important to consider (as I'm sure you already know) that almost all are skewed in one direction or the other. For your consideration:
Varicella - CDC (It should be obvious the slant in this article, but there are still some good numbers/statistics presented that can be helpful in consideration.
New England Journal of Medicine (2007) summary indicates a waning immunity in some children and CDC recommended booster to the vax.
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Jen Mackintosh
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ugh...I hit post before I was done linking to articles for consideration...
(Some of these are technical articles...hope that's ok to link.)
New England Journal of Medicine - Efficacy of Varicella Vaccine
Abstract - Post-exposure effectiveness of varicella vaccine
Journal of American Medicine article that suggests that though immunity does drop after the first year of vaccination, beyond that it is not a "statistically significant" decrease.
For balance to all the above medical journals I just linked you:
Children of God for Life - A Medical Critique of the Varicella Vaccine
Hope this is a help.
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Jen Mackintosh
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JodieLyn
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Mumps is the one I'm pretty sure had sterility as a complication.
And Jen, what about there being more cases of shingles in younger populations? That seems to have gone hand in hand with the increase of the use of the vaccine.
And while we're not required to avoid, it may be something someone might want to consider. The chickenpox vaccine is from an aborted cell line and there is no alternative in the US/Canada.
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Tami
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The sterility issue is more associated with mumps, I believe. I've not heard of it with chicken pox.
I was in the same position. My youngest 2 never had the disease. Having seen adolescents who caught it, I was extremely reluctant to let that happen. It was truly awful.
One son is taking a class at the local high school. That was the deciding point. He had to have the vaccine. The other dc will be getting it as well.
I wonder if colleges require it?
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Mackfam
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JodieLyn wrote:
| And while we're not required to avoid, it may be something someone might want to consider. The chickenpox vaccine is from an aborted cell line and there is no alternative in the US/Canada. |
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This is true, and something for consideration, Jodie. In looking around, I found that the original line for varicella was derived from aborted fetal cells, but it is my understanding that current lines are no longer derived from that (aborted fetal) tissue, thus the material cooperation could be considered more remote (I believe). However, please do not take this as an implication or an endorsement one way or the other, just an observation. As Jodie says, we are not required to avoid, but this is one of those decisions made in prayerful prudence in light of specific family circumstances, and is definitely something to be considered.
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JaysFamily
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I strongly recommend that you have their titers tested to see if they have caught the disease, but were asymptomatic. I had to get the varicella vax as a teenager because I never caught the chicken pox. I'm constantly paranoid that my vaccine will wear off and that I will catch it as an adult when it's deadly, especially since it's not going around like it used to. I was exposed to the chicken pox several times as a child, so I really wish they would have checked my titers since the vaccine may not have been necessary, yet dealing with boosters is something I now have to worry about. None of my doctors can give me a straight evidence-backed answer about varicella boosters.
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Servant2theKing
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For those of you who may be concerned about using the chickenpox vaccines you may want to research varicella homeopathic nosodes. My understanding is that they are made from diseased tissue, but you can't catch any disease from them because none of the original substance remains. Their main function is preventing disease. If you have a homeopathic practitioner in your area, that would be the ideal means of learning more about this alternative.
"Homeopathy, An A to Z Home Handbook", Alan V. Schmukler contains a chapter on Preventing Illness with Homeopathy, with a subtitle Homeopathic Immunization. The chapter focuses mainly on using homeopathic nosodes as a preventative, instead of vaccines, or as a remedy for those dealing with harmful effects of vaccines. The website www.elixirs.com carries homeopathic nosodes (including Chickenpox Varicella http://www.elixirs.com/products.cfm?productcode=S151 ). The site also has a Step by Step Dosing Guide link section, as well as the option of consulting by phone with a Homeopathic Health Counseler (there is a fee involved). Here is a page with information focusing on vaccines, which might be helpful for those discerning this matter http://elixirs.com/vaccine.cfm
For those who support the use of traditional vaccines, I certainly don’t wish to offend anyone by sharing this information. For those who may be concerned over the use of chickenpox vaccines, possibly seeking alternatives, the above information might be worthy of research and prayerful consideration. The book I mentioned above refers to Pope Pius X and Mother Teresa as just two of the famous people who have used homeopathy. It also points out that four homeopathic dispensaries are run under the auspices of Mother Teresa’s Missionaries of Charity. This information lessened some of my own concerns over using homeopathic remedies.
I have been having ongoing struggles with Shingles (which comes from the same virus as Chickenpox). In searching for relief from the Shingles (which only worsened with continual use of acyclovir and typical forms of medical intervention), I've run across multiple online references to greater incidence in the medical community of Shingles in younger and younger people, including children, which has led some people to suspect the higher incidence could possibly be related to widespread use of Chickenpox vaccines. I am no expert and even hesitate to share this information. Please know that I am simply offering this information for anyone looking for alternatives to the vaccines.
This subject certainly warrants prayerful discernment and prudential decision within your own families.
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MaryM
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As much as I love the internet and access to "information", another aspect is the perpetuation of information that is not necessarily accurate. That's what I'm seeing with this chicken pox sterility issue. If you do google it you find the claim that it is a possible side effect or complication. My thought was as others mentioned - this is a complication that is associated with mumps for older boys or men. So to clarify for those interested.
There is a condition that is sometimes a complication of mumps (or other infections). That is orchitis, which is an inflammation (infection) of one or both testicles. Orchitis (usually unilateral) is the most common complication of mumps in men post-puberty, occurring in between 20-30% of mumps cases in that age group. In severe cases of bilateral orchitis, sterility is possible. This is rare. There is more frequently sub-fertility issues many of which improve over time. Again these are still only in a minority of cases of orchitis.
So, now to chicken pox - orchitis is not a common complication of chicken pox though there are a couple of cases of it occurring as a result of that disease (a couple of cases total, not even a percentage of cases). So theoretically if one were even to get orchitis as a complication of chicken pox (extremely unlikely) then the risk of it leading to infertility is also rare, based on the general statistical rates of orchitis and infertility.
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Barbara C.
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My bigger concern for me would be my daughter not having ever having chicken pox/vaccine, getting pregnant, and THEN getting exposed to chicken pox.
As for the high outbreak of shingles, my MIL has had issues with what she thought was shingles, but her doctor said that a lot of cases of what they thought were shingles are really herpes, like a fever blister outbreak. And they seem to be linked to stress. They are in the same family of viruses.
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Erica Sanchez
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Mackfam wrote:
CrunchyMom wrote:
| It is going around, but it used to go sound s lot more I never thought I'd have to worry that my children WOULDN'T get sick. |
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This is exactly what I thought. I just thought we'd encounter it somewhere, be exposed and be done. Yet...here we are...with my oldest 14 yo, and no exposure thus far. Thus, I can really relate to Jackie's question and concern!!! |
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Me, too!
Thank you, everyone, for this information. It makes my head spin, but I know I have to face this/deal with this soon. I did not realize you could be tested for immunity. Would you do this at your pediatrician's office?
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Topic: what if teen hasn't had chicken pox
