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ALmom
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We would love ideas on how to deal with a variety of social issues that come up in the teenage years. We are fairly isolated - not by choice and have attempted to start various activities among Catholic homeschoolers in the area with very little to no participation. The protestant groups have all kinds of things going.
How have other folks handled the social needs of teens? How about issues that come up about "dating." We have not felt that dating is a healthy aspect of our culture and have discussed the importance of building good friendships with different people - girls and boys. Our daughter really does see our point - but it is hard to form friendships with the opposite sex, even in group and family settings, when that is not the position of people you are with.
How do you help your teens recognize peer pressure and resist? In this area as well as in dress and music.
Janet
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Willa
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No answers for you, Janet. I'm in somewhat the same boat in a way-- 3 teenagers and fairly isolated because of distance and because of budget and the range of ages in my family. My kids are all on the "shy" spectrum and it makes me feel we are not good witnesses for homeschooling (what about Socialization???) -- I was far shyer than they are, to the point of selective mutism for 6 of my school years, and I was public and private schooled all through, but then that starts sounding like a covert motive to homeschool in itself, though it is by no means my real motivation! It really vexes me and I can't seem to feel peaceful about it!
My kids are in various youth activities at the church and the younger ones are in baseball, plus we have a weekly homeschool meeting, but have not been able to find any really good friends outside the family. It does let them see a bit of other kids and hopefully prepare them a little for the "real world".
About dating, we won't allow it -- it hasn't come up, but it's outside our comfort zone unless it was a mixed group of boys and girls at a public function. My teens have pretty much internalized our opinions on this without much actual discussion -- in fact, they generally come to me and express their opinion about the modern world and its errors. Dress and music have been the same way -- they make their own standards which are generally more conservative than we would insist on-- and perhaps that's one plus side about the shyness and geographical distance from community. I think it has made for a bit of loneliness though, as you say.
I think it's helpful to soak the home environment in the good old things ... dd absorbed a modest sense of style from old movies and books... and to discuss life choices in Catholic terms. I'm sure you already do all this and that's why I'm afraid I'm not much help. Hope someone else will speak up!
Oh and one more thing -- a BIG plus for my daughter has been pen pals, email and snailmail... it allowed her to "meet" some other Catholic girls who share her ideas and dreams about life. She has been able to meet a couple of her pen-pals in person, notably Chari's oldest daughter, and our whole family has been able to meet with other Catholic homeschoolers through the west coast annual camping trip that Chari basically spearheaded  Even a once a year meeting is really refreshing and gives the kids hope that there are others out there who are "kindred spirits" and come from families as large as theirs with somewhat the same learning lifestyle! It has been a real blessing for us!
I know there are other Catholic Cmers down south so maybe a similar type of meeting would be a possibility for you, though there's only one Chari 
Also, another thing you are surely doing, but prayer always brings results though sometimes not the ones you'd expect. I keep praying about this too and will add you to my intentions.
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Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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Elizabeth
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My ds 16 has taken an art class offered by a homeschool mom for the last four years. Our families have become good friends. As fate would have it, this particular family has four wonderful daughters (how convenient is that?). Michael has formed close friendships there. And I know that he spends considerable time thinking about and talking to one girl in particular. There is no dating yet, thought I do not think I'd rule it out, particularly his senior year in high school. I'd like to see him navigate some of those social situations while he is still at home. He'll be eighteen when his senior year begins. He is well-read regarding Christian dating--Josh Harris, Mary Beth Bonacci, John Holtzmann and others have influenced his ideas. And I'm not quiet on the topic . He has the blessing (or is it the curse?) of having parents who dated each other (and borke up with each other) through high school, for better or worse...
His friends are mostly former homeschoolers who have gone on to Seton high school or to Trinity. His best friend is Mary Hasson's son Jimmy and they have an evniable friendship that comes with knowing each other since they were very small and growing together, sharing a passion for sports and for God. Michael is quieter and more sensible and Jimmy is gregarious and mischievous. They make quite a pair.
The homeschooled teenagers here always include former homeschoolers for parties or outings, so there is a rather good sized crowd. They had numbers enough for a prom last weekend at an officer's club. It wasn't a date thing; just a dressup dinner dance. Honestly, there were too many restrictions, imo, and it was a bit stifled.
Michael doesn' toften socialize with the homescholed group--maybe three times a year outside of art. Until recently, getting him to functions meant my lugging everyone else along, not terribly practical on weekend nights (dh is away most weekends). He has no neighborhood friends, though a girl in very skimpy clothing followed him around for awhile.That situation turned disastrous quickly and he ended it quickly, a bit wiser for the brief encounter.
I have been encouraging him to find friends with other homeschoolers on line (hey, worked for me, huh?). He and Kim Fry's son Zach "discovered" each other last weekend and Kim and I had some uproarious laughs over the whole thing.
My second teenager is 13. He's very shy, Willa, and would fit right in at your house, provided you installed a basketball hoop on the premises. He is best buddies with the boy next door, who is about eighteen months younger and speaks English as a second language. They both speak "basketball." And for right now, that's all either cares about. He is also a soccer referee and there's a boy from our parish who works with him frequently. I see a friendship blossoming there. I can't imagine this child dating--that does require speaking doesn't it?? The thought of him talking enough to get to the point where he asked for a date makes me . Maybe someday...
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Leonie
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We have always tried to organise group things -even long distance things like email groups for young Catholics. I have also encouraged my children to be involved - perhaps with me - in volunteer work or in a homeschool group or a political party or a church group.
Sometimes this has meant a lot of work or travel for me. Sometimes it has meant a teen getting out of his comfort zone. But it *has helped with socialization and with not dating but getting to know others in groups.
Leonie in Sydney
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ALmom
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Our daughter is involved in orchestra (she took up violin at age 13 due to lonliness and we discussed finding an activity in her interest area as a way to meet people in a natural setting. Orchestras don't use pianos much thus the violin. She is now in the community hs youth orchestra which we are very proud of.) She has no trouble carrying on a conversation with anyone in the orchestra - from the atheist to the evangelical homeschoolers and everyone in between. She is truely socialized in that sense - one of the few that moves among all the cliques. She would enjoy a close friend who would invite her to things, etc. She can move among all kinds of people, but she doesn't quite fit or belong anywhere - whether it is our parish (this has been extremely hurtful to her) or the evangelicals that are friendly enough but stick very much together and have their church and school support.
She would like to learn some ball room dancing - but who do we invite. The evangelicals don't believe in dancing, the Catholics don't participate in much and are very divided among themselves, the public and private schoolers stick to their own outside of orchestra - they are too busy with school plays, summer camps, etc. She wants a formal graduation complete with pomp and circumstance - but she will be the only Catholic hs graduate and feels funny wearing a cap and gown as the only one. However, she is playing in an orchestra (the protestant group forms their own orchestra for a graduation ceremoney and fills in a few slots with hs from the youth orchestra) for a protestant hs graduation so the comparison is pretty in your face.
There are a few Catholic hs girls that we get together with. They are great for each other in one sense, but don't share a lot of interests with this dd - more with the 13 yo. They really do not enjoy music and especially do not like playing an instrument which is what our daughter fills her day with. They love reading and history. Our daughter will read some, but hates history. Our dd is really into music, esp. classical and orchestral. She plays piano, violin and organ. She is in orchestra and chamber groups, works for a Presbyterian church and next school year will begin work with our parish (this is a new parish so hopefully her experience will be more positive). She has accompanied choirs in the public school and various string players. She will be doing several music camps this summer (she saved up the money for them). So the need isn't for activities - we have more than enough of that and they have helped. At least she no longer absolutely hates homeschooling. What she really needs are good friends and some reinforcement of our (hers and mom and dad's) values.
We have had a no dating rule and feel it is for the best. She is not resistant to this and basically agrees as it has been something from early on. We have discussed how we believe it best to interact with a lot of people in group and family settings and are not real keen on a lot of age segregated stuff. We have found a protestant group that does not require us to sign a statement of faith - just that we have read it and will honor it at school functions. The statement of faith is more than your typical sola scriptura - it includes things against the sacramental system and tradition. There are a number of former Catholics in the group. However, they have a lot of participation and family to family interaction. The dads are very active, the older children help with the younger while visiting with each other and it fosters a great deal of service and discretion in dealing with each other. They have a strict dress code, but one we agree with for our own. They also have a clear no - dating/pairing off rule which seems to take the pressure off interactions since everyone is operating from the same set of assumptions. We have been thinking about associating with this group - we still won't fit in completely because of being Catholic, but it would be a support for our dd. They have a formal banquet and graduation, plus opportunities for recitation, etc. In orchestra, the non - hs are into the typical dating scene and most of the boy/girl interaction is looking for a new girl/boyfriend. This is also typical at parish youth groups, etc. Basically this means friendships don't really form. How do you get family or group things going to provide a healthier environment for interaction when no one shows up - not even to a retreat with the Fr of Mercy that our hs arranged. Our daughter is not drawn into this dating thing - it just makes it impossible to get to know the kids very well and much of a conversation is easily misinterpreted. There is one Catholic hs boy who is a good friend and shares her interests in music of sorts. The problem is - how do you get a group together when a group doesn't exist. Too much individual time can quickly turn into romantic notions before its time.
Nor is our dd grossly immodest in dress. She and I sometimes don't see eye to eye on whether something is getting too tight, but she is using the same basic guidelines that we have taught her. However, I sense that some of the change in her choices stems from trying very hard to fit in at our previous parish.
Until her 13th year, she was pickier than I was on modesty, always wore dresses (which she sewed herself since I cannot sew) Everyone thought that she was a lot younger than she was. No one spoke to her. She tried to volunteer her musical talents in the parish and was hurt by a few things that happened. She also volunteered for VBS and helped a CCD teacher teach the children how to make rosaries. So it isn't that we didn't try to be involved. Somehow she just didn't feel welcome - and I have to admit that my dh and I didn't either. We felt like we had been pegged as pre-Vatican II (we taught NFP and hs). Plus the deviations from the rubrics sometimes got so bad it was an agony for our whole family. We did not go around stirring up trouble, but we did try to live our faith which meant thanksgiving after Mass in the midst of chaos, some act of reverence before receiving communiion, etc. We tried to be positive and volunteered where we could. Also the high schoolers came from either the one public school or the one Catholic school and seemed very cliquish. At first we just assumed that some of the lack of welcoming was due to us not participating in youth group activities. We felt the groups were lacking in supervision, they watched a number of movies that we thought inappropriate, held lock-ins, etc. Parents never had a clue what was going on on any given week. We tried to find out about service projects and felt that there might be a way to make this work. Unless we went to the youth group we couldn't get a schedule of the service projects so we basically accepted the situation. It did hurt our dd not to feel a part.
So I guess what I am saying is that while we have dealt with the socialization issues as best we know how, we know our daughter has experienced a great deal of suffering. The orchestra and activities have helped some, but we don't feel like this is the real answer. Our teens need the support of others outside the family, that will confirm the families choices and re-inforce it. They are so young and it is hard to fight the world's values even with support. If you happen to click with the few people that do show up at functions that is great, and one or two really good friends sharing some common interests can mean all the difference.
I guess there isn't much else to do but keep praying.
Janet
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Kim F
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We have three teens currently and I have not arrived yet when it comes to formulating *policy*. ; ) My oldest had personal ownership of the no dating position and is very spiritually minded so it wasnt a problem. Son #2 thinks its nuts to be blunt. He has gone to a dance at the local school and also on a couple group outings. I am not keen on it but I can see his dilemma. He plays basketball for the local ps and by comparison he is still remarkably conservative and our rules are unusual.
Son #3 wants to begin playing ball at the hs this summer which I assume will roll over into regular league next fall. I am very concerned about what effect it will have on him. Dh feels pretty strongly that athletics are a normal healthy part of growing up and that many ps and private school kids learn to make good decisions. Conversely we know many hmsc kids who don't or who are very inappropriate socially.
SO, not sure what will shake down with that. My boys arent that friendly with the kids in our hmsc group. By high school there arent that many boys left and many of them that are prefer video games and fantasy play (LOTR etc) to sports. This effectively leaves my boys with the sports league or no social life.
I find its already different with my daughter coming up. She is 11 this summer. I expect her to have fewer social challenges since there are more girls available and even the older girls seem not to care much for boys.
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Kim F
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Janet I noticed you are dealing with a similar issue - do we go to Catholic or secular social events that may be more liberal than we wish or do we go to the morally desirable yet theologically troublesome evangelical groups? We do have a large Prot. co-op program and many of the Catholic kids attend. I really balked because its exorbitantly expensive and very difficult to get class choices unless you volunteer. With 8 kids and always a nursing baby I just cant. Also more importantly while the Catholic teens we know who go are more conservative as a rule they still seem to have a bit of an attitude about things Catholic.
I sometimes wonder if we are cutting off our noses to spite our faces but I struggle with compromising my beliefs in light of their statement of faith when you never see that happen with evangelicals coming our way you know?
Course that leaves them with no friends. I don't know if the answer is to hold out or to help them makes good decisions in a mixed group of kids with different backgrounds. Dh feels it should be the latter.
The 'hold out' folks we know seem to have better results than we do with their kids' moral/faith convictions but honestly we wonder how some of these kids, the boys in particular, are going to manage out in the world due to their odd clothing and mannerisms etc. We are in mostly dresses etc so I don't mean because they are conservative. Just that they are often plain odd. Not that *fitting in* takes priority over faith but geesh, its frustrating to think we have to choose between our kids being misfits and their being moral you know?
I also wonder what the implication is if they can't keep their faith in the presence of those who don't share it. Is this the message we are sending them by restricting their interaction?
Thinking out loud - sorry! Dealing with all this ourselves right now. Kim
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Elizabeth
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Kim F wrote:
SO, not sure what will shake down with that. My boys arent that friendly with the kids in our hmsc group. By high school there arent that many boys left and many of them that are prefer video games and fantasy play (LOTR etc) to sports. This effectively leaves my boys with the sports league or no social life.
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This has been our experience with as well. The difference, I think, is that the very small handful of homsc friends MIchael made when he was little, but who are in school now, still include him in their social circle--mostly because sports provide a bridge. They play club soccer so it's not tied to a school. However, it is rather extraordinary that at least three of these boys play at the elite level that club soccer demands. It has just worked out that way. With the next few, I expect we'll re-invent the wheel.
My daughter is only eight but she is blessed to dance at a Christian dance school run by a devout Catholic. There are many homeschooled girls there, as well as ps and parochial school girls. I see it filling both a social need and a need to achieve excellence in dance.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Elizabeth
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Kim F wrote:
| I really balked because its exorbitantly expensive and very difficult to get class choices unless you volunteer. With 8 kids and always a nursing baby I just cant. |
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I think this is HUGE. Ever since Michael was in eighth grade, there have been countless co-op opportunities. some of them are very attractive. But, I could spend just as much as I would on private school and spend hours and hours running from one to another. It's just not practical nor desirable with little ones (is it desirable with big ones?). I remind myself again and again that when we decline, we forego the good of those classes for the BEST of being at home and learning in a famiily. Now that he can drive, it's natural to expand his horizons a little and add a class or two at the co-op, but that seems a right and good part of the growing process.
When we moved to this neighborhood, there was no one his age. He played by himself or he waited until homeschool gatherings to play and he played soccer a few times a week. He never seemed unhappy and he's very well-adjusted socially by any objective standard. OTOH, his siblings have lots of peple their age in the neighborhood now (it's grown by leaps and bounds) and it seems that with community come so many things that compete for their hearts and their time. Not all of it is good and very little of it is BEST...
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Natalia
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Janet and all,
I don't have teenagers yet. My oldest ( a girl) is going to be 12 in July but this is a topic very close to my heart.
We belong to a Covenant Community and our family, kids and adults, have learned a lot about friendship in the context of the community. But even though some of the Community's branches are big with lots of families, our branch is small so that means trying to find friends for our kids outside of the community.
What we have found is that a lot of people don't seem to be interested in their kids to form friendships. When you homeschool people ask you about socialization but I just don't get it. School kids are suppossed to be socialized because they have a lot of opportunities to interact with others? I wonder how do they define socialization? I see a lot of kids who have no manners. I see that when kids join groups sometimes the adults encharge don't even introduce the kids to one another. I know that my kids have been in some groups and come away not even knowing the other kids names. I see girls that intereact in ways that I consider unhealthy (cliques and cruelties to others) and adults take that to be normal and unavoidable. Is this socialization?
On the other hand, my kids are social kids. They like to be at home but they like to play with friends too. One thing I have encourage my dd to do is to take the initiative. For example, this past Monday she invited her friends from ballet to come to our house. They had a good time. Some times taking the initiative has brought success sometimes it hasn't. We have tried to form friendships with other Catholic hmschers but it hasn't worked too well, they either are content at home or they don't consider us Catholic enough because we belong to a Charismatic Covenant Community.
For now I am trying to help my kids to be happy with who they are and to learn to enjoy being at home with themselves. I know that now that they are young it is up to me to provide them with opportunities for them to meet other kids but as they grow older they will have to take responsibility for finding the opportunities to make friends and to keep those friends. For now I try to teach them about friendship and relationships, correct ways of relating to adults, member of their own gender and the opposite gender.
Another thing that I think is good for the kids is to cultivate a wide variety of interests- the more interests they are involve with the more chances for friendships they have. I feel that I building a foundation but I see the world out there and sometimes it makes me tremble.
I hope you don't mind my butting in with no experience to speak of ...
Blessings,
Natalia
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stefoodie
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i don't have all the answers as we are just starting out with teens (oldest is 14) so i'm looking to gain some wisdom here too.... but right now 14-yo dd is active in the church choir (and she cantors most weekends), plus karate (lots of boy and girl friends) and violin (a bunch of much younger friends there). we used to be active in the local homeschooling group but people moved away and we're not really comfortable with the newer people, so we gave that up. then we started a Catholic homeschooling group (right now about 7 families, nothing formal) but again she's one of the oldest there. there are also a bunch of neighborhood kids, most of them Catholic and go to the same church we do. as for dating, we've made it clear to her we think dating is for people who are spiritually, mentally, emotionally, and hopefully financially prepared to get married. we don't discourage friendships (she talks on the phone, sometimes long distance with angie's daughter devin, she blogs, she chats) but there are still limits (about half an hour to an hour only each day on the pc, and we need to know who she's chatting with). her friends are a mix of boys and girls, some younger, some older.
she dresses very decently because she sews and the concept of dressing conservatively is something that's been drummed into her since childhood so not much resistance there -- she still asks us if what she's wearing is acceptable. she does make and design jewelry and she wears some magnetic earrings (so it looks like she's got her ears pierced 2 or 3 places) and has started to grow her nails just a tad, but no makeup. we did allow heels last year, 1 1/2-inches high and a conservative style, no stillettos. no sheer fabrics at all. so far so good.
music has been a bit more of a challenge. she's into classical music because of violin, but she's also into other forms like jazz, and she loves charlotte church and josh groban. however, she has been influenced by her uncles' and cousins' tastes, so she'll listen to some enya and some avril lavigne or norah jones. i'm not too thrilled with those choices but we figure as long as we monitor her every now and then and give her other options it won't be that bad.
recognizing peer pressure? lots and lots of talking, discussing, reading the saints, etc. so far it's not a problem.
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stef
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ALmom
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I'd love to hear more about "holding out" vs "joining" a protestant group as we are very much trying to discern here. We do not take this lightly and would not, under any circumstances, sign a protestant statement of faith. We have committed to creating Catholic opportunities and were a part of starting the first Catholic hs in this area.
Our state is a church school state so by law hs have to be part of a "school" that is a ministry of a local church. Generally you can join these schools for official, legal purposes or as associates in order to participate in some activities but not the supervisory ones that make you a "legal hs". Over time, the protestants have managed to really come together - they have large cover schools incorporating a large variety of denominations, beliefs, etc. and have managed, for the most part, to learn to act in charity towards one another - trying not to offend against those in their group and thus have managed to unite despite differences. It does help that they have no problem using church facilities and the pastor of a church is often the founder of the school so there is true local church support for them.
The Catholics, sadly, have managed to splinter, whether through hard feelings, misunderstandings, etc. There are those that aren't picky about dress and music and dating and those that are, those attached to the Latin rite(some driving 3 hours for Mass and others feeling forced to attend unapproved Tridentine Masses -none are approved in our area) some disputes over petty things that aren't a matter of doctrine. There are now a number of cover schools which is fine (different folks want different things) but very little coming together for activities and sometimes rumors and hard feelings. Some support groups have formed but seem to be closed except by invitation only (and we are not invited). When we or our hs cover attempt to have an activity, almost no one shows up. And so many of the high school age have either gone to ps or have joined the protestant covers and no longer come to these functions so that when there are a few shows - you might get 1 or 2 high schoolers and its always the same ones.
Parish activities around here are very cliquish because the kids all attend the same school - hopefully our new parish will be a little better in this regard. And, quite frankly, the R.E. is combined as part of the youth social activities and they seem to fixate on sexualty which tends to degenerate into discussing every imaginable abuse. We do not think this good for our dd and are selective in what we attend. If we know it will be a sports day or service day, OK but otherwise we don't go. The local parish youth group looks just like any high school club and seem to be intent on bringing the world in as a means of attracting the teens to come - after all most of them easily go across the street to a very vibrant and active protestant church youth function. So the secular is just as prevalent in our church as it is at orchestra or anywhere else in the "real world". I have heard rap, loud rock, etc. They have lock-ins and watch movies that I wouldn't want my dd to watch and we're viewed as strange just for asking ahead of time what is in the plans (Hopefully our new parish will be better). But I do get worn out with all the liturgical experimentation (admittedly it is getting less blatant, but in the meantime I sometimes feel anger at how the goofiness has impacted all of our children and undermines our authority as a parent. We have sat through homilies where we have been told that parents are uptight if they don't let their children watch Harry Potter. This right after we had answered a question our children had about, "what's all this about Harry Potter" and we had carefully explained why in our prudential judgement we did not think it a good movie for us to see. Note - we said prudential judgement, and it is assumed that each parent must come to their own prudential judgement based on reasons so we didn't ridicule anyone elses choice to allow it. Neither would it have been all that upsetting if the homilist had come to us and spoken privately to us, the parents, about the harm they felt we were doing our children by not letting them watch Harry Potter. Our children didn't even really want to see Harry Potter, but the manner in which this was done implied some sort of church teaching that meant parents who were not in rebellion with Vatican II would allow this movie. It implied that we were a little ridiculous. When this happens a number of times, it does tend to make mom and dad look pretty extreme. There were issues like this and related to reverance before the Blessed Sacrament, etc. Letters were sent to the diocesan paper about all that was wrong with hs (basically we are viewed as Catholics who are more evangelical Protestant than Catholic or very pre-Vatican II and divisive). This came out the year our oldest thought we were ruining her life by hs.
Our daughter does function in the secular arena in all her areas of interest (ie music). We are not talking about pulling her out of these. We also try to be cooperative at the parish level, participate in as much as we can without compromising what we believe to be not in our children's best interest. We will continue with this - but would love to see the day when we can attend a Mass that is offered reverently, according to the rubrics.
Our daughter has learned to blend in somewhat with the non hs crowd by buying some of the fads and modifying them to make them modest (I, personally, preferred the nice jumpers she sewed but bite my tongue most of the time as she is trying to be modest while not looking like she has a neon sign on her forhead shouting hs.) She also learned to give a school name when asked where she went to school instead of saying hs. When people had never heard of her school and asked she learned to smile and say, "Oh its a small, private, church school." To the initiated that means hs, but most people just thought she was in private school and she felt she was accepted more easily this way. IE, they would get to know her first, instead of making an instant judgement of "Oh, you are weird." I see this as negative peer pressure. Does being accepted mean you have to look like everyone else? I know it is somewhat normal for teens to go through a sort of crisis of confidence but that is just when they need a good guide to help them sort through this and give them courage to be themselves without feeling like they have to join the crowd or blend in to be accepted. Were the fads really all that attractive to her or was it the pain of never being welcome and being unsure why not? As parents, we try to gently point some of this out and PRAY, PRAY, PRAY but a support network with peers that actually reinforce mom and dad's message sure does help. It would be nice to go somewhere and not feel like you stand out just because you are modest in dress or conservative in your choice of clothing or hs. To be somewhere where the values you have tried to instill are not being attacked allows a little breathing room as your try to handle all these prejudices.
We resisted joining the protestant group a few years back because we felt like submitting, even just in principle, to the supervision of a protestant cover would make us less a Catholic hs. We embraced joining in activities with protestants that were open to hs from all different hs (our daughter played softball with a hs softball team). The sports program for hs was organized, and put together by a Catholic hs dad for his sons but it was the protestant covers that had the money to back it. He coached the boys for many, many years even though it was under a protestant cover. This seems like positive cooperation to me. The particular protestant cover has been open to Catholics and even allows Catholics to sign the Nicene Creed as their statement of faith. There has been a great deal of discretion and charity - protestants reminding organizers of events to be sure and have non meat items for a Friday function during Lent, for instance. Yes, there are still those who think Catholics are going to hell and not Christian. They either avoid you or try to convert you. But there are many others who are just plain curious about what is really true of Catholics and a great deal of breaking down of prejudices through conversations.
The group we are thinking of is very discreet and we doubt Catholicism will really come up much. We simply will not attend a few things, like a movie about Martin Luther. Nor would we begin a debate on the sacraments. However, we have been assured, in writing, that we are free to defend our faith even if it means contradicting their statement of faith, which it would. No one who joins or associates with this group actually signs the statement of faith - we read it, agree not to stir up trouble, and to abide by the dress code and no - dating policy at their school functions. We have met a number of the people from orchestra, our daughter is comfortable with them and none of them have attacked our Catholicism. I have shared hints with them about where to find or how to modify clothing and they with me. There does seem to be a spirit of genuine interest in simply providing a haven for the children to interact away from the worldly pull so that they are strengthened to go out and transform the world instead of being transformed by it.
We know that if we do associate, we will need to remain with our Catholic hs cover and continue to try and bring about some sort of unity where we can support our own. My fear in associating with the protestant group is that we are, in effect, saying to our children and to these protestants, that we have been unable to serve our own and I look at Fr. Hardon's picture on my wall and am reminded of how he said that if Catholic texts did not exist - we were to create them, if Catholic support wasn't there, form it, etc. But I am a mother of 6 and have limited time and energy and I cannot force Catholics to come to events we try to sponsor. My high schooler has needs now - not 10 years from now. We have tried for the last 11 years at least to create an active Catholic support group. I am not a leader, so we were never in charge, but we hired a sewing teacher for a sewing class, advertised, etc. We have contributed our time and support to other functions started. We began an All Saints Party which was well attended for 2 years in our home - but then as the original hs got older, they no longer came. We do have a May Crowning once a year and that is about the only event that all the Catholic hs seem to support.
Someone mentioned that protestant coops involved lots of time which was impossible for large families. I can see where this would make an option unreasonable. My understanding of the different protestant groups here is that it is run very much like a volunteer organization so the committment is different - not as impossible. The protestant hs around here also have large families (7 + children) and most of the activities at the school we are considering are family functions where the teens not only interact with each other but also with their siblings. We went this evening to their graduation (our dd was invited to play in their orchestra) and saw the teens talking in groups with 2 yo siblings in tow, introducing their siblings to each other and the siblings freely going between mom and older siblings. It really was quite beautiful. I could see it as an extension of our family life. It was also nice to see how active the dads were (a rare event in homeschooling circles around here).
I am sure that we will run into some anti-Catholicism but I'm not sure it will be at functions at this school, though there may be a evangelical motive in being welcoming and non-confrontational. Around here your typical questions like "Why do Catholics worship Mary" were coming up so frequently in the public school lunch room that the Catholic teens were begging for apologetics (not by name)instead of the endless drither about sex so that they could answer the challenges. IE I am not terribly worried about the typical challenges to faith - around here its likely to come up at the grocery store, your next door neighbor, post office, recreational ball, and the door to door evangelists from all kinds of denominations (not just Mormons) and any other public activity. It is debated rather loudly in the halls during break at orchestra.
We might not feel quite a part of the teenagers at this protestant cover because we won't be attending teen pact, but the challenges we are likely to face are not any different than those that come up in daily life. It may be hard when we feel accepted by protestants, but not by our own parish, not to feel bitter and this, in and of itself, could be a temptation if you don't really know your faith. But, we might have opportunities to break down barriers and prejudices and we certainly have many things that we can learn from them and the moral, and family environment would be a breath of fresh air.
Anybody have challenges - things to think about - suggestions for other ways to deal with what we are facing?
Thanks,
Janet
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time4tea
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This has been a topic of discussion between dh and me for awhile now. Our oldest just turned 12 in February, and we have a very difficult time finding opportunities for him to socialize on a consistent basis with other children his age. Another simialr problem is being able to get him together with the same children on a consistent basis, so that the opportunity to begin a friendship is there. We are kind of the odd family out in our neighborhood becuase we homeschool, so our kids don't have any neighborhood friends. We have tried to make friends within our homeschool group, but many of the families in our group are involved in a lay apostolate group that has its own, separate social schedule that only members can be involved in, so if your not a member, you're kind of on the periphery. I have come to accept that fact that perhaps God is simply not calling us to have a huge social involvement right now. I don't always care for this, and am often quite, quite lonely (thank goodness for friends on the internet!). At this point, we make it a priority to have social contact with others, period, regardless of their age. I try to get the kids to weekday Mass as often as possible, and to take advantage of the activities at our parish as an opportunity to socialize. We try to have family prayer time and movie/game nights. My husband, who enjoys weight training, has begun to introduce our sons to this form of physical fitness. No, these may not be what most people view as "social" activities, but this is what we do. We pray about this every night, so I have to believe that God is answering it in His own way with what is best for us at this time.
Blessings,
Jenny
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theNetSmith
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Jenny-
Our boys have been able to make new friends by participating on the local swim team (and did the same when they were playing soccer a while back). Although most (if not all) of the children they meet through these avenues are public-schooled kids, I have been pleased with the interaction that I have seen amongst them -- I guess I sometimes fear that my boys will be perceived as "odd" by non-homeschoolers because they don't share the same interests or social aptitudes or whatever.
In any case, team sports are a great way to help your kids get involved with others, assuming you haven't tried this avenue already.
(Forgive me if someone else mentioned this earlier in the thread. I just realized this one is 2 pages long and I haven't read all of the posts.  )
-Tim
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Kim F
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Tim I am fascinated that you responded as a dad. My dh could have written your note. I wonder if Dads have a different comfort level with team sports for teen boys? Elizabeth and I have discussed this at length and have both bowed to our dhs gut feelings about it. They both agree with you <g>
My new freshman to be started summer league basketball at the high school since the thread started. He has done remarkably well - was invited to play with the varsity and has scored several points in these first games. Gosh these decisions would be easier if they weren't coordinated. ; )
He knows the issues we have had with his brother and that its vitally important he continue to fly straight if he wishes to continue. In fact last night he did a *jerk check* - ie to see if we felt he was becoming one! He isnt, I am proud to say, and I am praying hard that he can hold tight to his faith while spending the time up at the school.
A line I wrote earlier about what kind of faith is it if it flounders at first challenge made me think hard about my motivation to forbid the school activities. Somehow those Mormon kids manage. I need to have as much confidence in our heritage. Easier said than done! Kim
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Kim F
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<<and I look at Fr. Hardon's picture on my wall and am reminded of how he said that if Catholic texts did not exist - we were to create them, if Catholic support wasn't there, form it, etc. But I am a mother of 6 and have limited time and energy and I cannot force Catholics to come to events we try to sponsor. My high schooler has needs now - not 10 years from now. >>
Your words have rung in my ears this week. Fr Hardon is my model in all this as well and I often think of his words to Julia Fogassey about that very thing. But like you, I get tired. And its not the Field of Dreams here - just because we built it doesnt mean they come, not the teens anyway. Not sure what that means. I feel good about what we have accomplished with our TORCH founding here locally but it IS work and my kids have mixed feelings about it. Some enjoy group - the others could really care less and would be just as happy or happier doing those same activities at home and going to 4H instead. Sigh.
Hard to know how to juggle responsibility to the community with the real life daily responsibilities of a large family. Kim
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Leonie
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Kim,
I find that I have had seasons of involvement and then seasons of less involvement. That is how we we have worked it in a large family -so, sometimes we do everything with babies and toddlers in tow. I, personally, liked this option because a) I am a social person myself and needed the company  and b) getting away from the house meant that I could really be with the the little ones while the older ones were involved in a group actvity - with no distraction of household chores! I spent more time playing with babies and toddlers out than I may have done at home. 
Then, some babies needed more home time - or I became too tired. So, we would pull back for a season where possible and give the explanation to the older kids.
Being me, however, meant that when that season as finished we were right back to our socialization! lol!
And having group activities for older kids at my house helped - teens meeting at my house for a games afternoon, for example. Needed little planning and organisation for me and we could stay home while the teens socialized.
And we have tended to do most of our activities with an inclusive group, wherever we have lived - neither Catholic or Protestant, but with Catholic and Protestant families as members.
Leonie in Sydney
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ALmom
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I don't know why our oldest in particular has these needs. She tends to be happiest when she is busiest and has a strong social pull. She is much better than I at functions and seems to float among a lot of circles. It's just that she is not good friends with anyone.
Unless something changes, our other children will be fine with just our few activities at the hs cover we helped found. I think it has a lot to do with really finding common interests with someone and being a friend. Some natural things have happened with our 2nd dd and she and another girl volunteer together at the parish to make crafts for VBS or make a beautiful flower arrangement for someone.
Our oldest had stronger needs to swing with lots of different people and orchestra and other activities have met that need - but added a great deal of peer pressure. She also tends to be more emotional (fine arts bent)and so a lot of the traditions are part of her expectation for say, graduation. She really wanted a formal graduation with all the hoopla but not by herself. This is why we first looked at the protestant cover and perhaps it is a lame reason - but as we looked at their school, I think I felt a real sadness for her lonliness and ours and the pressures of always seeming so strange. I would like to see her mix with some families that would reinforce our ideas on dress and dating to ease some of the pressure a little. (Don't get me wrong, overall she is doing very well and we are very proud of her. She is not becoming secularized or whatever and a lot of things may be me having a hard time letting go).
The other thing I realized after looking into the protestant cover is how much my dh and I could use friends to visit with. Catholic hs here don't want to do much whenever dad is home and we understand - it just is that we feel a need for some family to family support. Very little is set up that way - most is age segregated or mom and children whether it is parish, hs, or other activities.
Leonie, thanks for your sharing. I think what I'm hearing is that maybe we could invite a few families to do something with us and not worry about where they are coming from and not make anything a part of any cover school. Perhaps a family potluck or something. This is probably the best way. We've recently met a wonderful family with 10 children and turns out our husbands went to elementary school together in D.C. so we all have something in common with someone in the family.
Janet
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juliecinci
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About mixing iwth Protestants...
I know there are Protestants who are nuts about Catholics. I just wanted to encourage you, though, that not all of them are. I wish there was more mixing. I think it is healthy for both groups to discover how other people live as Christians and that the world isn't just about their particular niche.
One of the unwitting benefits to being in a Catholic university and Protestant homeschool group is that our kids have exposure to both kinds of faith and are able to accurately represent the nuances of each that elevate and honor the core values articulated in those ways of being Christian.
Raymond Moore used to get angry that homeschooling became another model of schism -with evangelicals/fundamentalists leading the way. His original vision was that homeschooling would be a community of diverse points of view, rallying around the educational model/vision rather than another way for religious viewpoints to be asserted as superior and exclusive, thus inducing competitiveness and suspicion.
So if you have the chance to know Protestants, be that example of Catholic homeschooling that changes how they understand Catholics! So many of you have similar values to the Protestants I know in the homeschooling world, even if theologically, you are quite different.
__________________
Julie
Homeschooling five for fourteen years
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Leonie
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I agree, Julie - we have gained a lot from being involved in inclusive groups.
Leonie in Sydney
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: teens and socialization
