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10 Bright Stars
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| Posted: March 16 2012 at 1:27pm | IP Logged
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Hi all,
I was wondering if you all have any advice on getting kids that share a bedroom with much younger siblings to get enough sleep with all the noise at night!
My two oldest daughters are 10 and 7. They share a room with their 3 younger sisters, one set of twins, aged 6, and then a 4 year old little sister. The younger set NEVER seem to get tired, despite running around all day, and none of them take naps, but they can still be very revved up, even if we put them to bed at around 830, at 11 p.m.!! My eldest daughet ends up hollering at them, we end up having to go up and try to get them settled over and over. Lately, my eldest daughter has been really tired looking, even my Mother just mentioned that she didn't look like herself, and I wondered, since I had just had her at the doc for tests thinking she had something wrong with her and they found nothing, if it was just a sleep issue. She has been in this room for about a year now. The boys (3 older) all have their own room since they tended to not get along together. (One was a night owl, one early to bed early to rise type, and then the youngest...well, just too young for the olders.) I also have two little in our bedroom, and we can't sleep either!!! I had take the two littles downstairs to sleep on the couch with me last night so my husband could get some sleep. (Which he plans to return the favor on tonight..thankfully, since my now one year old didn't think sleeping right next to me on the couch was as fun as I did.  )
Should I just try to move the older two? We do have one room that we use as the kid hangout. One side has the boys Wii and then the other side is used for the littles to watch a movie when Dad and I want to listen to the news or something that requires thought! 
I have tried the "Super Nanny" thing where I would go up in the hallway, in the dark, and sit there and whoever made a noise..I would FLIP on the hall light very quickly and then tell that girl to get in bed. But, who wants to do that each night when husband and wife time is VERY limited anyway, and frankly, my foot problem is acting up moreso that time of night and I just want to sit. 
The only thing I could think of would be to move them, but the boys are upset about the loss of their "play" room, I really don't have a bed to move down there, and that means that would be on the first floor right off the family room etc. which might cause its own problems for their rest/privacy.
And, I wonder WHY my kids are so hyper? I mean, why don't they get tired at bedtime?? We don't have a bedtime routine, I must admit...as far as MY personally going up there and doing the bath (we tend to do those in the mornings due to a few still wetting at night and pull-ups don't always do the job well, although if needed one night, we obviously do) and then they brush their teeth and show me, and then they go to bed. Is that not enough of a "soothing" routine? I just don't know if I have the time with a nursing baby and toddler who I am trying to settle down in the family room before husband is finished with the schoolwork for the evening, a husband who is already helping go over high school work until 8 or sometimes 830, so we go to bed at 10...therefore if I was up there with the girls..the hour or so we have to "chill" together would be gone.
Thoughts??? Suggestions??? Prayers????  Is 830 too late? I just don't see them ever going to sleep and then having the older girls go up later type of thing. They have never, EVER gone to sleep by the time the older girls go up at 9.
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Kim married to Bob (22y)
Mom of 11 blessings:
Bobby 19, David 17, Noah 14,
Mary 12, Gracie 10,
Isabelle and Sophia 8,
Gabrielle 6,
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JennGM
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| Posted: March 16 2012 at 1:44pm | IP Logged
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From my experience, my children get more wound up and excited the more tired they are. My boys don't want to miss anything so keep more to stay awake. They can't read their body's cues that they are exhausted and need to sleep.
So if it were my house, I would separate the older ones and then really work on a calm no stimulating bedtime routine. Sometimes siblings feed off each other, so it would be good to see if it the presence of the losers that might be the trouble or it is each other. At one point my mother separated the little ones so it was an older with a younger in each room.
But to reiterate, calm routines, no screens or electronics, but baths, prayers, books, snuggling all encouraged.
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: March 16 2012 at 1:56pm | IP Logged
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I found with my kids that giving them the option to look at books in bed for a while after "bedtime" really helped. For one thing is gave me a nice immediate consequence for not staying in bed (lights out!) but I also found that if they have something to do like looking at books that they would lay down and relax.. where if I turned off the lights they'd wind themselves back up.
I also might just "try out" having the older ones sleeping in another room and see how it works out with getting everyone to sleep.. I'd let the older ones "camp out" in the extra room rather than moving furniture around at first.
You might find that some new ideas for getting everyone settled, and a short time apart will make the shared room work again.
And we have 3 bedrooms, mine and dh's and a boys room and a girls room. That's it. Age difference etc makes no difference. there is no where else.. though if there's a particular problem on the occational night I might let someone sleep in the living room. But otherwise, it's just the way it is and we make it work.
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stellamaris
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| Posted: March 16 2012 at 2:39pm | IP Logged
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I question why the boys don't share a room? They can learn to get along together and it seems pretty lopsided to me that there are five girls in one room, and yet each older boy has his own room, if I understand you correctly?
I know boys are more feisty, but they do need to learn self-control and how to keep their more aggressive natures in check. I see this situation as an opportunity to give them a chance to grow. I'd put the two older boys in one room, the two older girls in one room along with one of the younger girls. I think part of your problem might be too many littles riling each other up! That leaves two little girls in one room and the youngest older boy in his room.
I agree that the little ones are probably getting overtired and that, as tough as it seems, concentrating on getting them into a routine at bedtime might really help. Turn off the "screens" at 7 or 7:30 at the latest. Limit screen time during the day, too. One idea is to have a sort of whole family wind-down time around 8. You could pray the Rosary or read aloud, even color or draw quietly, but the little ones need to be taught to be quiet during whatever you choose to do. This could help them calm down and prepare to sleep. Dimming the lights at 8 helps, too, as our bodies respond to light and dark by waking and sleeping. Only problem with this idea is that you will want to fall asleep early
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Caroline
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Erin
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| Posted: March 16 2012 at 4:24pm | IP Logged
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In the past I have had mixed ages share, we used to get the younger ones to sleep first, sometimes it meant that younger ones would go to sleep in our bed and then be carried to theirs.
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3ringcircus
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| Posted: March 16 2012 at 4:26pm | IP Logged
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Maybe it would help to stress to the older boys that they can either share a bedroom willingly & keep the play room, or they will lose their room to the girls?
I agree that the littles likely need more sleep and are overtired & getting riled up.
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DominaCaeli
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| Posted: March 16 2012 at 4:55pm | IP Logged
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Ditto what Caroline and Jenn said--sounds like the littles are overtired and need some wind-down time in the evenings.
Also, I would prioritize quality sleep over a game room, and I would transition at least two of the boys to sharing a room to allow more bedroom options. I think Caroline's room-assignment suggestion sounds great.
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stacykay
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| Posted: March 17 2012 at 11:11am | IP Logged
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I think the ideas mentioned are great- reasoning with older boys about getting along and sharing bedroom, or losing their play room. Also, if they could all three fit into one room, it would free up another room for the youngers in your room, enabling you and dh to sleep.
The most I have had together were three boys. They were younger, and we used to have to do a bath in the morning, too, on occasion, for the reasons you mentioned, but we also have to do them at night, too, due to the accumulation of sweat and dirt they pick up in the course of a day. My now 13yods showers every night, even though he also showers in the morning, due to his allergies. His doc said that pollen and other allergens could be picked up during the day, in his hair, especially, and it is important to shower.
After all the youngest boys get bathed and teeth brushed, dh says prayers with them and then reads to them. By that time, our youngest have often already fallen asleep.
Another thing my boys like to do is keep a small fan on in their room, at night. It helps circulate the air and provides "white" noise.
Oh, we also take a walk after dinner, so I think that fresh air and extra bit of exercise helps to get them ready for a night of sleep.
In Christ,
Stacy in MI
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elynnmom
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| Posted: March 17 2012 at 1:52pm | IP Logged
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I'm wondering what time the youngers wake up in the morning, because 8:30-11 does seem late for going to sleep. I completely agree that children get "wound up" when they are over-tired. Many of the suggestions are ones we have found helpful for our 3 boys who share a small room successfuly (ages 9, 5 1/2, 3 1/2). What works for us:
1. Routine - very important. A routine helps the wind down process. We definitely dim lights and no screen time or any stimulating activity after dinner at all. Our routine is pjs on, teeth cleaned, book time(often read by older sibling while parent finishes up dishes), prayer (decade of the rosary and sometimes holy family chaplet), then bed.
2. White noise machine - very helpful.
3. Sometimes a flashlight with book in bed (headlamps are really cool for this), but honestly, this can be more distracting than helpful for the younger kids.
4. We aim for no later than 7:30pm for the 5 and 3 yo (usually closer to 7). They wake up at 7am.
I really think routine and clear expectations are what make it work. We had our trials with getting the youngers to stay in bed without us laying next to them for a long time, but by the Grace of God, we are past that stage!
Final thought: It may take a few weeks to transition to a new routine (for you and them), so get ready to offer all the challenges up for special intentions. Lent is a good time for this :) And it will be helpful to lay out clear consequences for not laying in bed quietly. Good Luck!
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Pilgrim
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| Posted: March 19 2012 at 8:00am | IP Logged
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We also wind things down in the evening with a calm routine for all, and find it helps a lot. After dinner dh gets all the youngest in pjs while dd and I clean up from dinner, or feed chickens, we have prayer time, then I read aloud to kids, and dh starting with the youngest gets all the children off to bed. Right after prayer time the youngest goes to bed while I read to the twins(3 yos) and the 4 yo, then I read to the oldest while dh is then free to do whatever.
I agree that I would be giving some of the girls separate rooms, probably the 2 oldest in one and the younger 3 in another. I would also do as suggested and have the older boys in one room, and the two youngest children start having their own room. We find that after a certain stage in babyhood, the young ones actually sleep better in heir own room, and then Mommy and Daddy get more sleep, too.
We have quite mixed age in the girls room(11,3, and 1). They have all learned to deal with the fact that they share a room. The youngers sometimes have been woken up by older dd and her noise or lamp, and the oldest has sometimes had to deal with a cranky sibling after that. They've all learned to get along, for the most part because they have no choice, as we only have 3 bedrooms, and Daddy lays down the law if they don't. there is something very necessary in a Daddy laying down the laws to kids, that this is how it's going to be. not being mean, authoritarian, etc. just firm. I know that when I try to lay down the law, it has absolutely no where near the effect as it does when dh sets things straight with the kids. It might be best if dh lays it out to the kids, and follows through each night, even if it means a little less schooling getting done in evenings for a week or two.
Hope you find the best solution for you all!  God bless you during this difficult time, it's hard to loose sleep, and deal with children who are loosing sleep too.
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stacykay
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| Posted: March 19 2012 at 8:09am | IP Logged
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Oh, I have to add, one of my boys mentioned that it helped, having shared a room with his brothers, when he went away to college. The adjustment of sharing a room with someone else wasn't even a factor for him, while many of his friends had a tough first month or so.
This same son (23yo) is now graduated, home, working (yea!,) and sharing a room, again, with his 21yo brother.
In Christ,
Stacy in MI
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stellamaris
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| Posted: March 19 2012 at 8:18am | IP Logged
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stacykay wrote:
Oh, I have to add, one of my boys mentioned that it helped, having shared a room with his brothers, when he went away to college. The adjustment of sharing a room with someone else wasn't even a factor for him, while many of his friends had a tough first month or so.
This same son (23yo) is now graduated, home, working (yea!,) and sharing a room, again, with his 21yo brother. |
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Absolutely ditto this! My older children had the same experience!
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Caroline
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Servant2theKing
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| Posted: March 19 2012 at 11:02am | IP Logged
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Kim, God bless you! May our Lord give you and your dh the grace and wisdom to discern what is best for your entire family! Sleep is SO vital to family health and harmony! You've received so much wise input! I simply want to echo the idea that sharing a room indeed prepares one for other situations in life ~ college, as already mentioned, as well as married life! Many a spouse who had a room of their own in their youth finds themself having difficulty adjusting to sharing space with their spouse. Sharing a room with siblings can help develop character and virtues that will serve a young person well for a lifetime!
How blessed you are to have enough rooms to provide options that will suit your family dynamics! Praying for your family to find whatever solutions will best suit your needs and offer grace-filled, restorative sleep for your entire family!
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10 Bright Stars
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| Posted: March 19 2012 at 10:03pm | IP Logged
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Thanks everyone! So many great ideas to mull over. Maybe taking it to prayer is the first thing, which of course, I didn't think of doing. We did used to have all the boys in one room, but then they had the sleep troubles, and frankly, dealing with cranky pre-teen/now teen testoterone filled boys seemed to be harder for me to deal with than the girls! They wouldn't be like that now, especially since the older two have matured so much. The older two were also very "odd couple-ish" with one reading well into the night and blazing his light on brother, while the other got up early and therefore needed to go to bed earlier. So, I was reluctant to move them around again since they seem to be doing well in their own rooms, and in both cases, the younger son would definately have his rights transgressed, somewhat due to personality etc., not that the older two are not nice, but he just tends to get the short end of the stick sometimes, so I wanted to give him (the third son) some space of his own since he is sandwiched between two older boys who are not so much strong willed, but strong personalities perhaps. And then the oldest girl is sort of the family "darling" and is also a leader type etc. and gets attention without really us giving it to her on purpose, but she just does a lot for the family without being asked, so I think it was my way of giving him a "spot" to call his own and blossom in. Also, the girls room is the biggest room in the house. (even bigger than our "master" bedroom if you discount our bathroom.) It has the nicest view, the most windows etc. This is the room all the boys used to be in. So, they do have plenty of space, but as someone mentioned, probably more a lesson in teaching the littles more self-control.
We used to have the oldest daughter in the small room, and she really did seem to do well on her own, being an independent sort, and she is the one who now needs a good nights sleep. She is a bit of a perfectionist, and can get very militant at bedtime about things being straight and all the things put away etc. which tends to get the littles, who may have been settling down a wee little bit, riled up since she is telling them to pick this or that up. I go up/in and tell her that I will help put things in order again in the morning, to be at peace and calm down etc. To try not to be a perfectionist "at bedtime" but maybe "wait till the morning to worry about this or that." So, I can definately see the benefit to putting the two oldest sisters in a room since she likes things "just so", which is probably normal for her age.
The older kids do always shower at night, and I think that is a relaxing routine for them. I used to do baths for the littles at night, and really, this is a seasonal thing now that I think about it, since, as someone mentioned, the kids DO get very dirty outside this time of year!! So, definately in summers the kids will usually take a bath at bedtime every night, and sometimes even mid-day, but during the winter..they are inside so much of the day, mornings just seem to be the way for us for some reason with the toddlers and younger set. (and mealtimes often get so messy with the very little, that they get a rinse in a tub after every meal some days!!) (baby and 2 year old)
We do say the Rosary before bedtime, and the kids are made to sit quietly. I don't do much bedtime reading, I must admit, because the kids have bunkbeds and it is so hard to really get everyone on a bed etc., since all the littles want to be right next to me, so I gave up on that as we read a lot during the day. The littles don't watch t.v. at night very often since we are usually checking school well into the evening, or I am running around cleaning up with them or something like that while Dad does the school check, or trying to get the 2 year old or baby settled in. We do, however, let them watch a movie here and there if, as I said, Dad and I want to see what is going on with the news etc., and again, maybe more of a seasonal thing since lately we have been having bonefires each night in the firepit and staying outside till after the Rosary and till it is dark etc. Also, the bigger kids only get to play their games on weekends IF and only IF they finished all their school work for the week. I agree about the "game room" which, sadly, we call the "library" since it was supposed to be a library filled with books! HA! (I do have a bit of a library building in our basement classroom, but how funny, right, since I don't think there is one book in that particular room!!)
All good thoughts to ponder though. We have been working on routines in so many areas lately, so I will definately take all of these suggestions to heart and try to figure out a working routine and let you know how it goes!
Interestingly, today was my b-day as well as St. Joseph's feast day. So, I had 3 other families over for a nice playdate and the kids played and played outside all day long. Then, we went out to eat dinner with my in-laws for my b-day. Now, the girls are actually really tired acting and all is silent upstairs as I write this!!! They definately go outside several times/hours each day to play, but maybe we don't do enough "hard" playing for their energy level??? Something else to consider! I had thought the other day of having them run little races in the front yard in addition to their regular play since they have so much energy!! The twins, especially, are very kinesthetic girls!! They really should be in gymnastics, and REALLY, REALLY have just loads and loads of energy!! People notice it about them all the time. They are not poorly behaved, but can gracefully alight on beams, rails, tables, chairs, seemingly without any effort or climbing!!! I have been telling them to "get down" more often than all of my other kids combinded. When they were little, they were our ONLY children who climbed on the table, so much so that we had to begin moving the chairs away from the tables after each meal just for their safety. They would climb on the island, on counters, on pass-thrus, on the back of a bench at the table and walk DOWN the bench back which is maybe an inch and a half wide!!!! (They can still do this.) And, again, they seemed too just "alight" there whereas another child would have been caught in the act of climbing and lumbering up into position to pull off such a feat since I am always right there at the table, for example, when this happens, but with them, it is almost like magic!! I chalk it up to genetics. Their dad comes from a long line of gymnastics "stock" and also, there is a little "circus", which I like to tease him about sometimes, in there a few generations back. (Some sort of high-flying act!) These two have it!!! Their Dad can walk a 3 story narrow beam that is hovering over two unfinished floors down to a basement while building our house (and others in his youth) without any effort/fear at all! Now that takes balance!!! So, I think they just have a peculiar "action" oriented physical personality that the other kids in our family didn't seem to have as much trouble controlling, if that makes sense. You would have to meet them, be very charmed by them, and then say, "Oh!, now I get it!" to understand. It's sort of, "just them".
Thanks again for the tips!
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Kim married to Bob (22y)
Mom of 11 blessings:
Bobby 19, David 17, Noah 14,
Mary 12, Gracie 10,
Isabelle and Sophia 8,
Gabrielle 6,
William Anthony 4, Joseph 3 and Luisa Marie - born in M
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10 Bright Stars
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| Posted: March 19 2012 at 10:09pm | IP Logged
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Oh, and as far as bedtimes, someone asked what time the kids get up. The little girls are usually awakened around 7:45 for breakfast. The other older kids are up at 730, if not earlier. I COMPLETELY agree that 9-11 is way too late for them to actually be not sleeping! They are usually asked to get ready for bed at 8ish, then we say the Rosary and they are in bed by 830. Then, they stay up and up and up. Perhaps they are overtired as someone mentioned. I can usually tell when my 4 year old is ready for bed, and she often goes up a little earlier and will sleep if on her own and not awakened, but if she is up and with the twins, then they are the main source of energy since, as I said, they do not seem to tire!!
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Kim married to Bob (22y)
Mom of 11 blessings:
Bobby 19, David 17, Noah 14,
Mary 12, Gracie 10,
Isabelle and Sophia 8,
Gabrielle 6,
William Anthony 4, Joseph 3 and Luisa Marie - born in M
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: March 19 2012 at 10:36pm | IP Logged
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On the flip side there are kids that simply need less sleep. I have a good friend who had a daughter at that age that didn't need more than about 6hrs of sleep a night. My 5 yr old tends to only need 9-10 hours so a 7:45 wakeup time with an 8:30 bedtime would leave her not tired enough to lay down and try to sleep.
If they're not showing signs of sleep deprivation. Then perhaps you could get them up earlier so that they're ready for bed sooner if you don't want to trample on the older kids privledge of staying up.
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: March 19 2012 at 10:39pm | IP Logged
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If your twins are ones that need less sleep I'd even put the 3yr old in with her older sisters and leave the twins in a room by themselves so that those needing more sleep can get it easier.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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10 Bright Stars
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| Posted: March 19 2012 at 11:07pm | IP Logged
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Yes, maybe move the twins since they can tolerate each other well enough due to sleeping and doing pretty much everything together..well..since always!
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Kim married to Bob (22y)
Mom of 11 blessings:
Bobby 19, David 17, Noah 14,
Mary 12, Gracie 10,
Isabelle and Sophia 8,
Gabrielle 6,
William Anthony 4, Joseph 3 and Luisa Marie - born in M
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SallyT
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| Posted: March 20 2012 at 7:27am | IP Logged
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Have you thought about an audio book as an in-bed, wind-down treat? Alternatively, I sometimes sit on the floor between my kids' bedrooms and read to them while they're in their beds, to help them get to sleep faster. I'll also read Compline to them that way, letting them do the responses they have memorized, but I read the rest.
I have one kinetic boy who's currently having a terrible time settling, and reading this makes me think I'm going to move back to this strategy for a bit. Sometimes it's just a matter of giving them a reason to lie down and be quiet for a time, to give themselves a chance to realize that they're sleepy, so they aren't running up and down the room at all hours.
Just some thoughts . . .
Sally
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stacykay
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| Posted: March 20 2012 at 8:32am | IP Logged
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I didn't even think about the outdoor playtime. My boys are generally outside if they aren't doing schoolwork, and it doesn't matter much if it is summer or winter, there always seems to be just so much to do out there!  That may be a factor in their sleeping.
Also, as far as bedtime goes, my youngest boys are usually up later, only because my dh doesn't get home until 7 or 8, and they would have too little time with him if they were going to bed by 8. They need that dad-time! They usually run up for showers around 8:45, and then say their good-nights to everyone. Dh goes up with them around 9, reads, and they go to sleep about 9:30. But, too, they are at the age (7 and 10) that they have been having read-alouds for the past year and a half or so, so there is no need for them to be next to dh to see pictures (they have bunk beds, too.) They usually sleep until around 8, but sometimes they might sleep until 9.
Taking it to prayer! Great plan!!!
In Christ,
Stacy in MI
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Getting sleep in a mixed ages bedroom
