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MamaFence
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| Posted: Sept 12 2011 at 10:26am | IP Logged
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I had typed this out before the weekend, then my mouse did something funny and I lost the post. ARGH!
I need help. How do I create a sense of order and discipline with regards to our homeschool time, without turning into a meanie mom? This morning, for example, I read the story of Noah, and asked the girls (5 and nearly 7) to illustrate part of it. They've done this before! Of course I follow that up with narrations, which I write for my youngest and encourage my oldest to write on her own, or I write what she narrates, and then she copies it. My 5 yr old keeps whining "I can't! I don't want to! I don't know what I want to do!". How should I handle this?
Also, how do I handle the "I don't want to" situations, when they are things that are within their ability and interest? I have greatly limited other distractions, like screen time, to days that our work and chores are complete, and we've had positive attitudes during the day. We have a lot of attitude going on lately! I'm struggling! Someone from another board told me I need to change my attitude first.  Yes, but I'm not the one starting on the wrong foot here. (I do know that some more organization and materials prepped ahead of time will help some, but!) I can start out our days cheerfully, with the same routine as normal, and meet with defiance and refusal to cooperate. I'm trying to still have fun worked in to our schedules so we're still enjoying each other, but I don't believe I can throw out everything just to make them happy.
Our lessons are short, our time outside is growing, I've given time for breaks and snacks in our schedule, I allow time for the girls to read and color whatever they desire as well. I just cannot figure out how to encourage and gain their quick cooperation and attention to lessons when they are in this "I can't/don't want to" mode.
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Gina, mother to 4
DD 7yr (11.04)
DD 5yr (6.06)
DS 3yr (6.08)
DS 2yr (11.09)
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MNMommy
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| Posted: Sept 12 2011 at 1:06pm | IP Logged
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I only have time for a quick reply. Your story brought me back to when my oldest were those ages and I wanted them to illustrate bible stories. I had a vision in my head of what I wanted our homeschool to look like, and my little students didn't have the same vision! They just did not want to illustrate stories at those ages. My sons still have no desire to complete coloring/drawing schoolwork.
Honestly, I quit requiring them to draw narrations and I let our homeschool evolve. Instead of requiring drawings, we read stories and discussed them. Then the kids would go play and act out the stories in their free play. Everyone was much happier even though I didn't have the cute illustrated bible stories that I wanted.
For us, the illustrations were really just fun busy work. The kids weren't actually learning from doing the drawings. So, I would evaluate if the activities you are requiring are truly necessary for learning. If not, consider dropping them.
6yo and 5yo are still very young.
Please disregard if this doesn't match your situation. I really saw our family in your posting and you brought back all those new homeschool mom feelings and angst!
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Jennifer
Tired mom to - 10yo dd, 7yo ds, 6yo ds, 4yo dd, 2yo ds
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wifemommy
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| Posted: Sept 12 2011 at 3:02pm | IP Logged
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I second Jennifer. We mostly do discussion. and in case you are interested in long term. My oldest high school students remember it all and the little ones in the too young for school age learn it too  -Annie
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kristinannie
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| Posted: Sept 12 2011 at 5:20pm | IP Logged
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I have given in on some things that were not completely necessary and I have also changed phonics and handwriting programs that were causing grief (although recently DS5 has been begging to do MCP Plaid Phonics again and loves it now  ).
I realized that with my child, it was an obedience issue. He was whining and complaining through it all and things were taking way too long to complete. So, I changed my approach. I read in CM's books that you need to work on a child's attitude. She suggested explaining to the child that if things were done correctly and quickly, they would have more time to play. I remind him when he starts to dawdle that he has a set "playtime" between our little amount of seatwork and our unit study after lunch. The longer he takes to finish his work, the less playtime he will have. This has really resonated with him (he is a logical kid). I did have to later explain that the work had to be done neatly because he started rushing through handwriting. 
Since his attitude has improved greatly, I will give him a little reward on days when there is NO complaining before or during school (just the seatwork portion...there is no complaining when we do the unit studies because the kids love them). I have a "treasure box" filled with cheap little items that the kids love to pick from. It works well for us. I know some people are totally against bribery so disregard this if that is the case! I don't look at it as bribery though. I feel like it is a reward for a job well done. He definitely doesn't get this every day. He only gets it when he does exceptionally well which is happening more and more often.
One other thing I have noticed at this age is that some days kids just aren't in the mood for school. They have moods just like we do. On a day like that, we will just do a little bit and then head to the park or something like that. It definitely doesn't happy often, but I do allow for that if necessary.
I honestly think that the most important thing we can work on in our children right now is obedience and diligence. These are the things that will help them most in life. Those are two of my main goals for K. Of course, we are learning to read and do math, but I want to train them in their characters as well.
Best of luck. It is a hard thing to homeschool, but God always gives us the grace if we ask him for it.
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John Paul 8.5
Meredith Rose 7
Dominic Michael 4.5
Katherine Elizabeth 8 months
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MamaFence
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| Posted: Sept 12 2011 at 10:41pm | IP Logged
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Thanks for the advice! My girls LOVE to draw, so I was thinking that the draw/narrate/journal would be a great way to approach narrating, etc...but maybe not. Maybe I need to work more on discussion, as well (or instead).
Krisinannie--what you said really resonates. I think it *is* more than anything an obedience issue. Once I had typed up my original post this morning, I went back to the kitchen to finish chores and then read with the littles. I found that while I was doing that, my 5 yr old had finished getting dressed, and was already sitting at the table illustrating the story of Noah, without my reminder. And then she let me know when she was ready to narrate to me. My older one fights more. It's been on my mind to try rewards for exceptional work, or a week's worth of pleasant attitudes and good school-time...maybe it's time to actually do it.
Do you have advice on how to approach this character training? Perhaps I need a new thread for that. ;)
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Gina, mother to 4
DD 7yr (11.04)
DD 5yr (6.06)
DS 3yr (6.08)
DS 2yr (11.09)
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kristinannie
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| Posted: Sept 12 2011 at 11:38pm | IP Logged
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CM has some great info about habit training in her book Home Education. Start in Part III. She basically talks about choosing one habit at a time and telling the child that you are working on this with them and getting them excited about it. Then you are really consistent, really, really consistent. You don't yell or punish, but you give them a gentle reminder every time they don't do it. Then you "lay down new rails" in their minds where the new virtue then becomes a habit. I know I am not doing this justice because it is after midnight and I read this a few months ago!  Anyway, it has really worked well for us, with my DD3 especially. DS5 is very strong willed and it is harder with him (especially getting him to stop screaming in the house)!!!!
I really think you need to set expectations. I told DS5 that he was not going to complain about school before school or during school. We were going to get our work done and then have a lot of free time to play. I reminded him that his friends in PS are in school for 7 hours a day and then have homework. We are done very quickly. I told him that if there were no complaints and he did well in school that day, then he got to pick something out of the treasure box. Whenever he starts to complain or take too long to get his work done, I gently say, "You are wasting your playtime." That gets his attention and he immediately gets back to work. When he has done especially well, I praise him and remind him how much playtime he got because he worked hard. It really didn't take long for a change in attitude (maybe a couple of weeks to see a huge improvement). Instead of 90 minutes of whining and gnashing of teeth, we have an occasional comment and I usually have to remind him once a day to stay on task. I am excited to instill this diligence in my kids since I have trouble in that area as well. It is much harder for me to retrain myself!
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John Paul 8.5
Meredith Rose 7
Dominic Michael 4.5
Katherine Elizabeth 8 months
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MamaFence
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| Posted: Sept 14 2011 at 12:04pm | IP Logged
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Thanks for the book recommendation. Our library just got a brand new set of CM's books, so I'm on my way soon to get one to read!
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Gina, mother to 4
DD 7yr (11.04)
DD 5yr (6.06)
DS 3yr (6.08)
DS 2yr (11.09)
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: Sept 14 2011 at 1:37pm | IP Logged
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I agree with Jennifer and think that 6 and 5 are still pretty young to *require* any sort of narration. I also don't require much seatwork that young. I would read the story, and then I might suggest that they draw a picture. If they want to draw one of Noah, fine. If not, they can just draw. If they don't want to draw, that is fine, too. At this age, it is much more about the process than it is the product, and I absolutely would not fight to have them do required seatwork. I'd just focus on lots of reading. 
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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violingirl
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| Posted: Sept 14 2011 at 3:32pm | IP Logged
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My first question is if this attitude problem of "I don't want to" extends to other areas. If it's also happening outside of school work, then it's an attitude that needs to be dealt with in general and probably has very little to do with the school work itself. One of my boys tends toward a very negative attitude and we're always working on having a cheerful spirit in every part of our day.
If it's just about the narrating then I would hold off on that for awhile- maybe try again in 6 months and see if there is a difference in attitude.
For our family I do have a minimum that I want done, even if that activity isn't a favorite for my child. So, even though my first grader doesn't *love* reading out loud to me, I still make him read an appropriate amount a few times a week because he needs the practices. And part of that for him means learning not to complain when I tell him to go pick a reader and read to me for 5 minutes or 5 pages. We just get it done and move on to the next part of our day.
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Erin
DS (2005) DS (2007) DD (2012)
Mama In Progress
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ShannonJ
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| Posted: Sept 14 2011 at 8:39pm | IP Logged
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My five year old is my narrator-in-training. I only read 1-2 sentences before I ask him to tell me about it. My 8yo can typically narrate back 2-3 pages now. I don't ask for any written narration at all. Its more of a conversation and enjoyment of what we are reading together. If it is family reading time I will turn to my 5yo first after just a sentence or two then, dd narrates the passage after we are done.
Occasionally I have met resistance to school time and agree that clear boundaries should be set, but perhaps stepping back for a few weeks may resolve your issues. Sometimes pushing harder only makes things more difficult. If you step back for a few days, weeks, or even a month and then gradually begin requesting more after the period of rest you may find that the resistance has faded all together.
If you truly feel they need to be more involved try giving them choices. "Today we are going to read a story! Would you like to draw a picture about it or act it out?"
or
"We are going to be reading about ..... this week! I have left some pencils and paper/puppets/stuffed animals/art supplies on the desk if you want to draw/act out the story."
It may take a bit, but children left with wonderful ideas and time to use their imaginations come up with amazing things!
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~Shannon
Mom of dd 12, ds 9, & dd 5
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MamaFence
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| Posted: Sept 15 2011 at 12:08am | IP Logged
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Thank you all!!
I'm still learning so much about CM learning, so I greatly appreciate all you've said. Lindsay, your words about this being more about the process than the product hit me (in a good way). I need to remember that!
Erin, it is an attitude that extends through the rest of the day, too. The last few days have been better, and I've praised them for it (I hope appropriately). "Thanks for listening and working so well! We had time for .... now that you've finished your lessons and chores so early." etc.
Shannon, I like the idea of stepping back for a few weeks, also.
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Gina, mother to 4
DD 7yr (11.04)
DD 5yr (6.06)
DS 3yr (6.08)
DS 2yr (11.09)
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Becky Parker
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| Posted: Sept 15 2011 at 5:45am | IP Logged
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MamaFence wrote:
Erin, it is an attitude that extends through the rest of the day, too. The last few days have been better, and I've praised them for it (I hope appropriately). "Thanks for listening and working so well! We had time for .... now that you've finished your lessons and chores so early." etc.
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I think this is an excellent tactic! My 7yo ds is our negative guy. He doesn't really misbehave, he just has a bad attitude about everything but building his forts! School work and chores are like purgatory for him  .
I appreciate that this was brought up because it really reminds me that we need to work on the negative attitude. I like your idea Gina, about helping him to see that there are better things awaiting if he can buckle down and get his work done with a positive attitude.
I'm not good at sticker charts and other such rewards, but maybe there is a way I can help him to remember a good attitude. Is there a catchy jingle or line of rhyme we can start saying around here? Any ideas on that?
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Becky
Wife to Wes, Mom to 6 wonderful kids on Earth and 4 in Heaven!
Academy Of The Good Shepherd
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: Sept 15 2011 at 7:22am | IP Logged
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Becky, we always "obey right away with a happy heart." It relates more to chores than schoolwork, but I do institute "do-overs" when someone is grouchy and whiny and have them do it with a "happy heart."
Because, really, doing things with a cheerful disposition is often a habit and not the fact that the person really wants to be doing the distasteful task.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Discipline and homeschool
