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Olivia
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| Posted: Oct 13 2010 at 12:36pm | IP Logged
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Hi,
We have a 2 year old girl, and another girl on the way due on Christmas day. I am currently struggling with putting our daughter to sleep, using the method of reading to her to fall asleep, but it can take 2 hours and still be in the active mode, and wants to get out of bed etc. She is still sleeping with us, in our bed.
Here is more background: Up to a month ago, the baby fell asleep with breastfeeding, lying next to me in our bed. This was the only way she knew how to get to sleep, and it worked wonders. However, given we will have a second baby who will need breastfeeding, and I am not ready to do tandem, we decided to stop her from breastfeeding, which we did gradually (first cutting all day time etc), and it was quite easy to do, we only had less than a week's worth of difficult nights. Now she has forgotten about breastfeeding altogether.
But the problem now is I don't know how to put her to sleep. So first I used the method of breastfeeding in her bed, and that worked perfectly. Now I am using the method of reading with her in bed, and it is not working well. It takes so long, up to 2 hours. What other methods do you recommend for me to try? We have stuck to our normal bed time routine other than the breastfeeding.
What's more, is that we have to get her out of our bed, because when the new baby arrives at Christmas, it will have to sleep next to me, to breastfeed her to sleep, and keep her next me the whole night. There won't be enough room for the 4 of us. My husband is already finding he has too little room with our 2 yr old in bed. What is the best way to transition her out of our bed, and maybe even into another room?
Many thanks for all your help and advice.
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Oct 13 2010 at 12:57pm | IP Logged
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OK, first of all I'm very big on parenting to sleep and rarely recommend any sort of crying it out.. BUT
I had one child that would use anything including my presence to keep from going to sleep. Cuddling, rocking, laying down with him, lights on or lights off etc would not work because he wouldn't let it work.
So.. I put him to bed in his own room lights off, door closed. He cried.. but it was a MAD screaming fit (and I could definately tell that it was anger, not at all feeling abandoned). he cried himself to sleep in 20 minutes. This compared to fighting us for over 2 hours each night. The next night it was 10 minutes. After that he would go to bed and to sleep without any fuss at all. He apparently NEEDED to be left alone to sleep.
Should you let her cry? I couldn't tell you. But it may be that the reading or cuddling etc could be overstimulating. Maybe try reading her 1 or 2 stories and then leaving her with some books that she can look at as long as she stays in bed.
You might also look at her overall sleep pattern. Maybe she's napping too late in the day? maybe napping at all is making it hard to fall asleep early enough? maybe she's sleeping too long in the morning to fall asleep as early as you want at night? She may also need less sleep than you'd like.
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Olivia
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| Posted: Oct 13 2010 at 1:39pm | IP Logged
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Hi
Thanks for your reply and advice. I think you are right when saying we are over stimulating her with many stories. This is exactly what I was discussing with my husband earlier today, and we thought we should remove the 10+ books and only leave 2 books.
The problem I can imagine happening is that I will read her 2 books, and she will quickly get bored, and get out of bed, and start crying for more stories. I am planning to just lock the door so she can't get out of the room, and wait for her to come back to bed. Hopefully this will work. It's going to be a tough night, but I will let you know how it goes.
With regards to moving her out of our bed, I was thinking of putting her cot mattress on the floor next to our bed, and lying down next to her to get her to sleep. Is this a good first step to putting her to sleep on her own? maybe I shouldn't lie next to her at all, so she doesn't get used to it. Or maybe I should just put her in her own cot, where she can't get out of it. I can then stay sitting next to her cot until she falls asleep, but it will be a big transition for her to sleep without me being next to her, and I can imagine she will be crying and trying to get out of her cot.. I'm not sure what to do.
She is generally a very calm baby who rarely cries during the day unless for a proper reason. But this sleeping at night issue has become the exception since I stopped breastfeeding her, as she doesn't have a method of falling asleep anymore.
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mathmama
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| Posted: Oct 13 2010 at 2:55pm | IP Logged
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My 2 older girls liked to play with my hair so when they stopped nursing to sleep that helped soothe them. We would read one story and then we would turn the lights out and I would lie next to them and hug them. Often they would play with my hair. I rarely had any problems getting them to sleep. I think reading until the child falls asleep could take a really long time since one needs light to read. These days my 3yo will fall asleep during the story, but at age 2 there would have been no way 
Also, to solve your sleeping situation, could you push another bed up against your current bed? We have 2 full size beds side against each other in our bedroom. They are off the frame but on box springs. This also makes a nice place for the kids to jump during the day 
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Barbara C.
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| Posted: Oct 13 2010 at 9:31pm | IP Logged
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I usually wean around 16 months. Then I give them a good night cup of warm milk before bedtime. As they approach two, we start reading a maximum of three books. Then it's time for lights out. Then I rub/scratch their back and/or massage legs and feet. Sometimes I sing a few songs (everything from hymns to nursery songs to soft rock songs) if the child likes to be sung to. Then I say goodnight and *I* pretend to go to sleep.
Never underestimate the power of pretending to go to sleep yourself. It denies them an audience but not your presence. Your daughter is also conditioned to pick up cues in your breathing, so you really have to relax if you want them to relax. If you are tense and in a hurry for her to go to sleep, she will pick up on it.
I am not a fan of making a kid cry it out alone (mainly because my first would never give up and only get more and more pissed off). But I have been known to intentionally upset a toddler by pretending that their sleep buddy is going to sleep with me instead of them. Sometimes a little bit of crying helps burn the last of that energy. But I am always there to rub their back and feet or snuggle until they calm down.
Which reminds me that you might want to see if there is one stuffed animal she favors or take her shopping for a special sleep buddy. (I always had the rule about no more than 2 sleep buddies in the bed.) My oldest (8) still sleeps with her Elmo at night. My second (5) has a rotating list of sleeping buddies. My third (2 1/2) has her Cookie Monster.
Sleep environment can also play a big part...finding the right level of lighting and noise (we use fans to block out sound from outside the room). I also shut the bedroom door (and if need be lock it) so that they understand that if they get out of bed they can not leave the room. And most won't want to get out of bed in a pitch dark room.
Naps can be trickier since it's not as dark, but you could try a similar rhythm: three books, closed off room, back rubs, pretend sleeping. Or even better take a nap with her.
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Barbara
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SuzanneG
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| Posted: Oct 13 2010 at 9:40pm | IP Logged
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Barbara C. wrote:
| Never underestimate the power of pretending to go to sleep yourself. |
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I have this strong desire to write this in lipstick on our bathroom mirror or something. It's just so TRUE and FUNNY!!!!
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Barbara C.
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| Posted: Oct 14 2010 at 11:49am | IP Logged
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In the fullness of disclosure, I should admit that I am much better at dealing with post-weaning issues than moving-them-to-another-bed issues. We moved DD#2 (just turned five) out of the family bed a year ago, and I STILL have issues getting her to stay in her room at night. (I wouldn't care when she went to sleep if she would just play quietly).
I had to have two surgeries when my youngest was 2 months old. It put me out of commission for almost two weeks, and during that week bad bedtime habits formed and it seemed like every child's sleep needs changed. I've spent two months struggling to figure it all out and get things back to "normal" while in a haze of exhaustion.
Right now I am just trying to accept that this is a season in our lives where the two older kids and I don't get to bed until midnight or later, and we all sleep in until 10:00. It's either that or walk around tired, cranky, and depressed. 
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Barbara
Mom to "spirited" dd(9), "spunky" dd (6), "sincere" dd (3), "sweet" dd (2), and baby girl #5 born 8/1/12!!
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LLMom
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| Posted: Oct 14 2010 at 2:39pm | IP Logged
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My dc never slept well, and I think I was a huge part of that. I finally figured it out with my last 2 and they slept better than the rest. I was not a good mommy when tired. I can't nurse and sleep at the same time so when I had dc that wanted to use me as a human pacifier, it was awful. I got sick (mastitis) often and was very grumpy. All of this (and other things) led to my depression and anxiety problems.
If I had to do it again, I would night wean by age 1, letting my dh take over. I would let them cry, although with him. Moms needs are just as important, imo. But by 2, I think they can understand that night is for sleeping. I would sing 1 song, read 1 book, and say prayers and then tuck them in. Maybe stay and pat the back for a few minutes and say "goodnight. Go to sleep now." I think a child would fuss for a few nights. You might have to walk her back to her bed several times and say the same things, but if persistent, I think it can work. We eventually did this, but not as early as I would do if I had another chance. Just my thoughts.
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Trinity
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| Posted: Oct 15 2010 at 12:25pm | IP Logged
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I have a 2 year old DD as well. : )
For us, I have found trying to stick to a set bedtime each night helps a lot. We also follow a bedtime routine each evening. My DH or I will announce it is "time to get ready for bed", then we head upstairs for baths, toothbrushing and prayers. We try to read stories together as a family, although sometimes my children will have seperate stories too. My daughter does still nurse before bedtime, but at her age she does not nurse until she falls asleep. She is usually pretty good about falling asleep on her own without any tears.
We have a pretty big bedroom and DD has always slept in there with us. When she was younger she had a crib in there, although sometimes we did cosleep. When she turned two back in early March her grandmother bought her a lovely toddler sized bed which we put where her crib was. She has almost always refused to sleep in it. She just keeps climbing up into our bed! At first we tried to put her back in her little bed, but then we decided after a couple months it didn't really bother us, so now she sleeps in our queen sized bed all the time.
There is room for us all, but I can see how in your situation adding a baby would make for a tight squeeze. Have you thought about maybe a co-sleeper for the baby? There are full size Arm's Reach Cosleeper and smaller versions available. Arm's Reach Mini Cosleeper
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Olivia
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| Posted: Oct 16 2010 at 6:32am | IP Logged
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Thank you all for replying with suggestions. It's been a very tough two nights for us! Where do I start? Let's start with the good. Thanks to your suggestions, we now restrict the number of stories to just TWO, and we think that works great, because on the second night she seems to accept that there are no more books to read and doesn't look for them anymore, this is good because it removes the distraction of having too many books around where she used to reach out for all of them.
The problem however, is that after we finished doing our prayers and reading the two stories, we said good night, and switched the light off. Then she got really annoyed, and started screaming (standing up) and getting out of control (which is not like her at all during the day, she is almost always calm and hardly ever has tantrums). Her screaming and crying is so bad, that it makes her body shiver. We tried to remain calm the whole time. We waited for her to lie back so she falls asleep... but that never happened. She got more and more worked up. We spoke with her gently explaining it is bed time, we sang to her, we cuddled her, but nothing worked, she just screamed louder and louder, and she was kicking and pushing me away. After an hour of this ordeal, we couldn't take it anymore and we got out of bed and she immediately came to me and wanted me to carry her. And she calmed down almost immediately. She refused even to be carried or touched by my husband. She only wanted me to carry her around the room. But I can't keep doing that going forward as I am 7 months pregnant and only getting bigger and heavier. In fact I am already struggling carrying her now as I get pregnancy contractions and pelvic pain when I carry her.
I should also mention that the problem is not just the initial falling asleep but also getting back to sleep when she wakes up 2 or 3 times a night, because she also wants to be walked around to fall back to sleep.
With regards to moving her out of our bed, rooms in England are unfortunately very small, and we can't fit in another bed next to our bed, we can only fit her small cot next to our bed. So our options are either put her in her own cot (in our room or another room) but she can't get out of the cot by herself, the guards are too high. So the other option is to just use the cot mattress on the floor. I'm not sure if we should delay getting her out of our bed until she first learns to fall asleep better. We actually tried putting her in the cot about a month ago for a few days, but I ended up sleeping with her in the cot half the night, and it is not comfortable at all.
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Barbara C.
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| Posted: Oct 25 2010 at 2:55pm | IP Logged
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I hope things are getting a little bit better for you. I know sometimes it takes little ones to adjust to new routines.
One other thing I thought of is to incorporate her as much as possible in some of the processes. For instance let her pick the books and bring them to you and then put them away. If she is capable, let her turn off the light and/or shut the door. As they enter the twos, kids become so obsessed with "doing it myself". It gives them a sense of control. Of course, sometimes I have to say, "Either you turn off the light or I will" to give them so motivation.
I'll continue keeping you in my prayers.
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Barbara
Mom to "spirited" dd(9), "spunky" dd (6), "sincere" dd (3), "sweet" dd (2), and baby girl #5 born 8/1/12!!
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Getting to sleep methods for 2 yr old
