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Kathryn
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| Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:11pm | IP Logged
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I have restarted my "strike" system with my 10 and 11 year old. It basically consists that if they break a "standard, they know better rule" then it's 1 strike. Each strike means 5 minutes of lost play time at the end of the school day before they can play. This also keeps me from asking, asking, asking and then ending up yelling and being upset etc. etc.
From the time they get up, they may earn as few as zero to as many as 6-8 strikes resulting in what amounts to 30-40 minutes of, in essence, time out.
My question is whether this is enough discipline and/or punishment for this age? The reason I ask is b/c I feel like they just sit in their room and it's almost "free" time in their room as opposed to punishment. May be I'm focusing too much on punishment. They typically are required to lay on their bed and do nothing for that time period. Usu. the reason one or the other has too many strikes is b/c they didn't get enough sleep and I feel like they need this rest time.
I was just wondering if I should make them do more during this time such as an actual extra chore (scrubbing baseboards, pulling weeds etc. comes to mind). 
Thanks,
ETA: Honestly, I think I'm feeling like this isn't enough consequence for one child which is why I'm wanting to add a stiffer sentence.
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Kathryn in TX
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Erica Sanchez
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| Posted: Aug 18 2010 at 12:06am | IP Logged
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I remember a thread here regarding discipline and St. John Bosco (I'm too tired to search and link - sorry) that mentioned that he did not put his boys in time-outs. It had something to do with the devil and maybe some kinds of temptations or something that could happen when a child is sent to be alone for discipline/punishment.
Does anyone remember this discussion?
My husband really likes the idea of doing work/chores for consequences, especially for boys as they most likely just need to burn off some energy. I'm struggling in this area, too, Kathryn.
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Grace&Chaos
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| Posted: Aug 18 2010 at 12:30am | IP Logged
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I would also love to see the link. I have a dd 10 and like you Kathryn sending her to her room sometimes just doesn't seem like enough. As for the work/chores consequence (which my dh completely advocates) I have trouble enforcing. It seems to drag (she will take as long as she has to) and just gets me more frustrated that the original issue isn't resolved. 
My other concern (being such a newbie to CM) is how does "discipline/punishment" compare to habit formation? Does habit formation just assume an education discipline or does it spill over to every aspect of self?
I will be anxious to hear more about "discipline for our olders" and like always continue to pray about it. 
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Becky Parker
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| Posted: Aug 18 2010 at 6:11am | IP Logged
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We have 4, soon to be 5 boys and we find that some sort of work is the best discipline. The "most dreaded job of all time" is cleaning up the yard after the dog. That's easy enough that the younger two end up with it most often.
We also have a wood pile that gets moved. There's no reason for moving it, but my DH says it allows him to cut the grass under it  .
We've also been known to make them run laps around the yard. My neighbor, who's always working in his flower beds loves to come to watch that spectacle! He'll usually comment to them as they run by ("Are you really going to let your brother beat you?", "the little one is catching up!" or some such thing.) It gets the boys laughing (and us!) since he's like a grandpa to all of them.
My oldest (16) has been given the task of clearing the scrub trees off the back hill. He's old enough that we can trust him with the tools required for that job.
I actually had to make a list of things the boys could do so that in the midst of my frustration I had something to help me. Sometimes I get so upset I don't know what to do so sending them to their rooms is the easiest thing I can come up with. But, we find too, that it is not very productive, especially with the boys.
We've found a hidden benefit to the hard work too. Besides getting something done that needs it (like clearing scrub trees or poo-scooping ), my boys have a very different disposition after they have done some hard labor. They seem to have a sense of accomplishment and maybe even pride that they were able to do the difficult job. This usually gives them a better attitude around here too.
For my dd, it's a little different. I find that the most effective thing for her is to "ground her" from calling her friends or missing something like a park day. She's very social and would much rather clear a whole field of rocks than miss time with her friends. But, her attitude certainly doesn't change for the better. I'm afraid I'm making her bitter when I do that, so I'm sort of at a loss with her.
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Kathryn
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| Posted: Aug 18 2010 at 8:02am | IP Logged
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So, it does seem my instincts are right that the "time out" punishment works for the DD but not the DS. I have done the chores as a means of punishment before but it usu. ended w/ me being more frustrated b/c I felt he wasn't doing it well enough or hard enough or found it "fun" sometimes even. Also, like Jenny said, it seems to drag. But, in the end, I believe this might be a better route for him than idle sit on the bed time. We don't have a large yard but I'm tempted to get a woodpile and rocks just to give him something to do! LOL We did have a wagon full of rocks one time and I had him move them from the front yard to the back yard and back and forth (some made up chore) but after a while it became "fun". I wonder if that matters if he's really burning off the energy he needs and getting that sense of accomplishment that doesn't come so readily inside the house and sometimes results in too many strikes.
I'll search for that other thread about St. John Bosco too.
I think the discipline of habit formation def. would/should spill over into every aspect of one's life. I'm new to CM too but that would be my guess.
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Grace&Chaos
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| Posted: Aug 18 2010 at 9:09am | IP Logged
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Becky Parker wrote:
| But, her attitude certainly doesn't change for the better. I'm afraid I'm making her bitter when I do that, so I'm sort of at a loss with her. |
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Ditto this Becky! I've tried so many different approaches 
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SeaStar
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| Posted: Aug 18 2010 at 9:31am | IP Logged
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I just read The Five Love Languages of Children, and it touches quite a bit on effective discipline (what works best for some kids and what only makes them more angry/bitter). For example, my ds's primary "love language" is Quality Time, so sending him to his room for a time out is a bad strategy.
He loves being with people, and being sent off alone feels a hundred times worse to him than it might to another child. He does much better with extra chores, as Becky mentioned.
An idea for those who use the time out strategy: don't send them to their room. Try sending them to the bathroom! There is nothing at all exciting to do in there. It is truly a "time out" place. With that, don't send them for a specific time. Send them in, and then check on them periodically to see if they have cooled down/changed their attitude. This idea came to me from a friend who has a counseling degree.
I used to send my ds to his room for time out, during which he just played. Now, if I wasn't having him do extra work, I would use the bathroom instead.
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Kathryn
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| Posted: Aug 18 2010 at 9:49am | IP Logged
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SeaStar wrote:
An idea for those who use the time out strategy: don't send them to their room. Try sending them to the bathroom! There is nothing at all exciting to do in there. It is truly a "time out" place. |
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I think I *LOVE* that one!!!
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Aug 18 2010 at 10:04am | IP Logged
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Melinda.. that's how I do it.. except I keep them next to me.. facing a wall usually.. I really prefer this because several of mine will talk themselves into being "victims" and by having them next to me I can continue with correction so that they don't fall into this trap.
I've also been known to use pushups.. it's one of my favorites for kids that apparently have so much energy that they can't leave each other alone
I also like a short run to the end of our dead end street and back.. this is less about punishment and more about expending energy and transition.. it's wonderful for transitions for those who also need the work out.. they finishi up one thing.. send them out to run and they come back ready to start something new.. the kids LIKE doing this btw.. as I said.. it's not punishment at all.. but quite helpful regardless.
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Pilgrim
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| Posted: Aug 18 2010 at 10:06am | IP Logged
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The work thing works excellent here as well. Dd sometimes just needs to do something she doesn't like to take the edge off of a mood she's in. Also we've found a good brisk walk around the livng room while we pray our rosary puts the whole fmily in a better mood.
The moving of the pile of wood or rocks is great! I like it. We happen to hve a huge pile of sand about 50 ft. out our back door from when we dug our basement. We thought of moving it by tractor, but then one day I had a Holy Spirit inspiration to have dd move loads of sand when she got sassy, or gave me trouble about doing studies, or is in a general crabby mood. It works wonders! She comes in with a much better mood/attidtude after doing loads of sand. This dd can be a difficult one to figure our dicipliine that works. It has to be strong enough/distasteful enough to make it stick with her that she doesn't want to do whatever it was again.
My other thought when I came up with this particular discipline was that she need something physical to get the mood out, but I also didn't want the discipline to be a chore that she might normally do. I didn't want to make the chores that much more distasteful, and cause more grief/frstration for her or between us when she had to do chores. The moving loads of sand seems to be a perfect solution with her. It is totally a discipline, seperate from all other chores, she doesn't like to do it, but the distaste is not strong enough to cause bitterness, and in our case it is actually getting something done that eventually needs doing, but is not on a time frame. 
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Becky Parker
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| Posted: Aug 18 2010 at 11:28am | IP Logged
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Pilgrim wrote:
My other thought when I came up with this particular discipline was that she need something physical to get the mood out, but I also didn't want the discipline to be a chore that she might normally do. I didn't want to make the chores that much more distasteful, and cause more grief/frstration for her or between us when she had to do chores. |
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Excellent point! 
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sewcrazy
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| Posted: Aug 20 2010 at 8:23am | IP Logged
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I have a jar full of note cards for each child that I use for discipline. Each one has on it a chore that is distasteful but needs doing, for example, scrub the baseboards or clean the ceiling fans. They are not part of our routine chores. They are clearly "punishments".
The chores for my 6 year old are obviously different then the 17 year old.
I have found that idle time, time outs, just cause more mischief.
For sterner measures with my teens, I restrict telephone and internet use as a punishment. The threat of that alone, keeps them in line fairly well
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LeeAnn
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Discipline for olders?
