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Bridget
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Making the leap to trusting God with child spacing can be hard, especially when there are difficulties with finances, previous loss, small houses, etc. I have had a few conversations, recently, with women who maybe feel called but, understandably, just can't quite make the leap. I know we've touched on this in other threads. I was wondering what kinds of things might help someone overcome their hesitation.
There doesn't seem to be much Catholic writing about large families and being open. I don't think everyone has examples of large families around them to show that it can be done and how great it is. And sometimes when the examples are in the midst of troubles they don't look like a good example on the surface.
I have a handful of friends whose children number in the double digits. Their struggles have been huge. Sometimes they didn't look very impressive. Now they are having grandchildren. Their steadfast faith, trust and perseverance is paying off. Their adult children are adamantly pro-life. They know the faith and are devout. They plan to homeschool and are open to life and large families. To me, those are sweet rewards indeed.
These friends have been an excellent source of encouragement and ideas for me. This forum is an excellent source of encouragement and resources. What else can we do or say or be that would help? I keep thinking about a web site with articles and resources. Or a book. (I don't mean by me, I'm not a writer.) Or a magazine.
There just seems to be a lack of Catholic resources for the large family, both spiritual and practical. I have met moms who had never even THOUGHT about being open and trusting God with their fertility. I remember one really sweet young mom who was so thrilled at the thought and excited about the possibilities after we talked about it. (She has 6 lovely children now.) I think there are couples who would be open and trusting in this area if they had examples.
God isn't calling everyone to have a large family, but He is calling everyone to be generous and trusting. What can we do to help them? Any thoughts?
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Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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Martha
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Bridget wrote:
| God isn't calling everyone to have a large family, but He is calling everyone to be generous and trusting. What can we do to help them? Any thoughts? |
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I have no idea. I often come across this issue. The "HOW!?" How to stop worrying. How to not get bogged down in the "what if's"
It's incredibly difficult to convince someone it is actually a great relief to let God worry about it.
Especially as I really have been there and done that, so I know just where they are at. A good part of our acceptance is based in a foundation of experiences that have taught us we have reason to trust.
It's also a hardship for me to convince others because they see me with my nearly 8 and, honestly, I'm what they are scared of. They think, "If I don't control this - I could end up with who knows how many kids like that crazy lady!" lol sigh The reality is that unless they marry young and are very lucky, they are unlikely to have more than 5. (The average for no ABC use families.) Most couples take much more of their fertility for granted than they should, imho.
Anyhoo. Like I said, I have no idea!
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Bridget
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Martha wrote:
A good part of our acceptance is based in a foundation of experiences that have taught us we have reason to trust. |
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I know, everyone arrives at trust through their own experiences and their own journey. I'm not thinking of trying to convince, just encourage. I know how important examples have been in my life.
By the way, this post from today is really funny.
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Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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amyable
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Here are some random things that have helped us (because I only have a few minutes). We've never used ABC but definitely used NFP in the past with a contraceptive mindset (i.e. we'll have only the kids we want and that is enough thankyouverymuch). But recently we've "made the leap".
The thoughts that help us:
-you only have to decide one child at a time. Not all 12 at once  . Can we be open to ONE more? Do we have grave reasons not to be? Then after that one is born...can we be open to one more? Do we have grave reasons not to be? ad infinitum. 
-we are living for heaven, not here. Yes it will be difficult to have kids. SO WHAT. Life should not be about your comfort, entertainment, pleasure, etc, when there is a greater good to be achieved. I guess that sounds harsh, but it gets me through the day! 
-thinking of the future/the big picture, not the daily struggle. Remembering that the more GOOD people we have on earth the better things will be for everyone. Knowing that in only 10 years or so I'll have kids leaving the nest and will want others there to replace them. :) Grandchildren! Having lots of family around when things get bad (having lived in a small family, when something goes wrong there are just not enough people around to lend support!) Knowing that if social security goes away that my 4+ kids and grandkids won't let me starve but if I only had one or two the burden would be much greater on those families.
- reading Kim Hahn's Life Giving Love was helpful.
-I try to think of ways that my life would actually be easier/better if I had just left the planning up to God from the beginning. Like now that I'm getting older/more tired I may have had older children to help out not just 4 8yo and under. I sing to myself the song of Junior Asparagus in one of the Veggie Tales videos "God's way is the besssssst waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!" Seriously though, if God is all loving, and all knowing, who am I not to trust Him? I mess up everything ELSE I try to do on my own, so why wouldn't "planning my own kids" be any different? 
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Cay Gibson
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Reaching the people who are open-minded/open-hearted enough for this message is an awesome thing to contemplate...and do-able via the Internet. But we have to keep in mind that the voices of those around these couples are very loud and intimidating and often stiffles the quiet wisdom found outside the family unit.
It can be a very long journey. Now I sigh with peace at the fact that I'm gung-ho large hs family and everything that that encompasses, yet sigh with disappointment at the fact I'm turning 40 next month. 
Why didn't all this stick in hardened plaster when I was 20 and newly married?  At the same time, I'm grateful I found the beauty in my 20's rather than too late in life. Or perhaps I'm just noticing how quickly the past 20 years have flown and I'd love to have it all back. Not to do it all over (I wouldn't change anything) but to enjoy it all so much more.
I think many of us pretty much know our own minds and have stuck to our guns concerning our families. Family members may discourage us and insult us, but we still have a large sense of commitment to that inner calling or tend to be more contemplative-minded and hear the voice of God louder than others. Because of this, I believe mainly in the Holy Spirit's intercession.
I know Mary Pride of Practical Homeschooling had a magazine once committed for large families about large families. If I remember correctly, it didn't last long. Lack of a large audience? She has several books out. Again, if my memory serves me correctly her book The Way Home was the first (or one of the first) that I read that explained to me the Why!? people would have large families. I simply picked up the book at a Christian bookstore one day. It was my bedside companion for the first five years of my marriage and motherhood. From there the holy spirit worked on me and I had to combat society sterotypes and family prejudice over large families.
Of course this was a Protestant influence but then I became acquainted with the audio tapes of Scott and Kimberly Hahn through our pastor and listened to every tape they made.
I also had a good friend who repeatedly told me what a gift children were...long before I got pregnant. She never stopped telling me that. And I could tell she believed what she preached. I wonder what the success rate of her message is. Was I the only one recruited? I hope not. She still talks the talk with family and strangers alike...and is godmother to my fourth child. 
I knew a few large families in my church but I was barely married and had been through college and beyond being programmed that "reasonable" "educated" people had only two children...perhaps three is the first two were same gender.
There is one family, the M-----s (which I will mention again later) who had a large family during my teen years. Now their youngest is the age of my oldest ds and they are all getting married and beginning their families. The newer M-----s are having babies and hsing their children and I think it's a beautiful sight. I spend much time (too much time) admiring them coming into church with their families. It's beautiful. They are very pro-life and have been blessed.
I can't see how anyone would think otherwise. But my eyes (rather, ears) were harshly brought back to the 21st, secular century the other day, at a child's b-day party, no less.
We were at the b-day party for my nephew's little girl. They don't attend Mass with their girls because they have a two year old and everyone knows how humbling it is to take a two yr old to church. But they don't understand the reasoning of *humility*. They just see plain *Humiliation* with no graces to soften the blows.
So that was my nephew's wife reason for excusing their lack of Mass attendance. Her grandmother and m-i-l (my s-i-l) began telling her why she should bring the girls to Mass and how she was sinning twice by not taking them, when someone commented that there was a cryroom in the back and she should make use of it.
I could tell she was under pressure and she threw up her hands and said, "Have you ever been in the cryroom! It's a circus in there! And if someone would tell that M----- family to stop popping babies out all over the place, maybe there would be room for the rest of us."
Instead of horrified looks and corrections, everyone (who, I might add are all Catholics) burst into laughter. I was the only sitting there in sad shock.
I don't believe any of this answer your questions, Bridget,  but it felt good for me to think it all out. Are we making a list of resources? Can Protestant materials be added? I'm asking because I must say that Mary Pride's book was what sucked me into the mind frame and I must give credit where credit is due.
I really do believe in God's timing and the Holy Spirit's intervention. I also believe it is our job to "plant the seeds." One tangible opportunity I can offer is "strewing" large family literature in the lobbies of local ob-gyns.
Sorry I got so long-winded. Is it time for bed yet?
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Genevieve
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Bridget wrote:
Making the leap to trusting God with child spacing can be hard, ....
God isn't calling everyone to have a large family, but He is calling everyone to be generous and trusting. What can we do to help them? Any thoughts?
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I'm not sure where to post this, here or Covenanted Happiness but here goes.
There seems to be much thought on large families but what about the opposite extreme? When the couple is or knows conceiving a child is hard? Does NFP have a place then? I know Bridget you have spoken to Elizabeth about this in the other thread. I'm hoping you or anyone else will share insights from the other perspective here too.
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Bridget
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Charting can provide you with a lot of information about what is going on. CCL has helped compile a huge amount of knowledge about our fertility. These are great gifts. There is nothing wrong with using this knowledge to help a couple concieve or postpone pregnancy for grave reasons.
But I do have friends that agonize over those charts. Sometimes when they ditch the charts and just joyfully embrace being their husband's wife and trusting God with the outcome, they are happier. Their husbands are happier, relations happen more often and usually conception seems to happen then. (Well, at least in the few instances when I was close enough to the wife to discuss these things.)
After my first miscarriage we tried for about a year without success to concieve. My fertility signs were easy to figure out so we never bothered charting. But it was also a conscious decision not to get too bogged down trying to make something happen that we really didn't want control of.
We have always tried to focus more on the marital relationship and trust God with the fruits of it. Every couple and every situation is so different.
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Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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Bookswithtea
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Making the leap...
I'm scared every day about it. Our background? We started out early in our marriage as protestants with Mary Pride's The Way Home (now I would recommend Life Giving Love...I think its much much better). From there I began reading Gentle Spirit magazine. Our first three children were born when we considered ourselves "quiverful."
When we converted several years later we went through many many long discussions and prayer as we considered whether it was even ok to use NFP. We finally decided to take CCL's training (an excellent way to monitor thyroid function too, btw). We had babies 4 and 5 after that training.
One of my dearest friends is a protestant "quiverful" hs mom. She really gets the culture of life. She is a good mom and wants dearly to honor and please God. She just had number 6. He was born with Down's Syndrome. She is so overwhelmed. She spends all her days nursing, pumping, and finger feeding him because he has a difficult time nursing. By the time she is done with finger feeding she has about 30 minutes before she has to start again. He also has a hole in his heart and is facing open heart surgery if she can't get him to gain weight (he's 12 weeks old and not yet 9 lbs). They love him to pieces and don't regret their decision to get pregnant at all. But she feels incredibly torn. Her other children are from 8th grade on down to about 3. She feels terribly guilty because she feels like she's a parent to only her baby while her other children are essentially left to fend for themselves, is getting no sleep, etc. I know she's questioning her own beliefs right now. I remember reading some of the posts about Aidan a few years ago...I know there are answers to this question, but its still not easy.
Did anyone get the latest issue of Family Foundations? In it they have chronicled the story of a family with 6 children (youngest is 6). The father is 38 and was diagnosed with an inoperable brain tumor. He will die unless there is a miracle. The story was a testimony to how God has provided for them in particular (somehow they ended up on tv and have had their mortgage paid off, were given a new car, and have college educations paid for for all 6 children). Its a beautiful story, but not everyone is given such blessings. Some families lose their husbands and the mom has to go to work and quit homeschooling. What about when mom is the one diagnosed with something awful and is told she is going to die and has many young children? It happens.
My best friend and sponsor into the church, a year ago, lost her baby (her 4th child) to a brain tumor. They are diehard Catholics, they were NFP teachers for years. It was 14 months in the hospital of watching their son (5) die a slow painful death while they tried every imaginable thing and relied on God, day by day. Their children pretty much either lived with family or friends or at times they were able to live in Ronald McDonald houses as a family. After something like this happened to someone close to me, I was forever cured of the "oh, that's rare and only happens to other people" syndrome. I didn't even know I thought that way until I was confronted with it when he was diagnosed. I can still hear her phone call to me from the ER room in my head. I see his face because our children played together. I remember washing his chubby little hands after eating pb and j at my house after homeschool sports day. I still miss him, although I know he is in heaven.
Its not the world's opinions that I find convincing. I love to see the faces of people when we walk into a store or restaurant. Senior citizens smile and tell me to "keep going!" because they don't regret their large families who were reared before birth control was commonly available.
I agree with whoever said it was "one pregnancy at a time." That has been the only way we can even begin to consider such decisions. God gives us the grace for each pregnancy when we need it and not a minute before. But honestly, its the tragedies, the what-if's that haunt me when I am overtired and allowing fear to get the best of me. I know that all of this can happen with only 1 or 2 children too. But when I try to imagine one child dying in a hospital with me at their side while my younger children go motherless, or when I try to imagine myself parenting a larger family as a widow, I am scared.
For those who don't struggle with these difficult issues, how did you overcome them?
~Books
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JennGM
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I've been thinking over this thread and the Covenanted Happiness thread. Last night when I read the question about NFP and infertile couples, I started thinking about our journey and prayed about it some more.
Short answer: I must take a day by day approach on our fertility...for us, it's not even pregnancy by pregnancy. I can't become complacent and coast...I must renew myself and examine my motives every day.
I've written about this before, but briefly, I was 33, dh was 36 when we got married. I'm the oldest of 7, and my sisters were marrying and having children before me. I'm surrounded by generous siblings. I really thought I would have a honeymoon baby!!
We took the NFP class with one other couple, so it was more private situation. It was a GREAT help for both of us who had been chaste before marriage to bring things out in understanding the woman's cycle and the miracle of life. Dh was clueless about all this, and to have things presented in a medical/scientific/spreadsheet format was VERY good for us. It opened many lines of communication that I was a bit squeamish about.  Plus having things presented in that fashion helped so that it wasn't only coming from *ME* -- I wasn't him bossing around.
In all my single years when people would ask me "How many children do you want/plan to have?" I never could give a number. I always thought "whatever God plans to send us." How can I possibly know before I got married what number would work in my life? Everything changes! I can now see God was preparing me, because what has happened was nothing what I had expected.
When we first got married I didn't chart. I was clockwork, so it was easy to see fertile times, and we were taking advantage of that. But as months got into a year and more, we decided we needed to start charting to see if there was a pattern the doctors could see. That helped us see a lower thyroid and low progesterone need, but eventually I needed some extra help to get pregnant.
Since ds' birth, I've on and offed charted. I don't like overexamining the problem. I thought if we were more "carefree" I could get pregnant, like Bridget mentio. Well, I'm one of those people that it doesn't happen. I turn 39 this week and my cycles are changing. And two miscarriages in less than a year are indicating something might be wrong. So I'm charting again to present to the doctor.
But we always need to remind ourselves that just because we are doing *EVERYTHING* by the books and charts, it's not necessarily going to work. We're not in control!!! That's why I say it's a day-to-day renewal--I have to keep committing to give God the control. I can and do get bogged down in the details and me trying to control the situation. And I do get impatient and sad and feel sorry for myself, too much navel-gazing, which is wrong. In this thread I wrote of my favorite things in prayer I turn to. The common theme: I need to TRUST, have CONFIDENCE! The infertility cross we bear is a lesson in trust....just the same as deciding to have more children, use NFP or not. Elizabeth has seen my tendency to fret over things...it's a constant uphill struggle. 
There are two ends to marriage: the unitive and procreative. We have to keep both of these open at all times. If I'm using Natural Family Planning for selfish reasons, I'm elevating the unitive end, and pushing aside the procreative end. With infertility there is the opposite tendency to put the procreative end as the only one, removing the love and unitive side. I merely make our act a babymaking move.
I have big beefs with the terms even "Natural Family Planning" -- I think it sounds too much like birth control. Dh and I gave talks at an engaged couple's workshop. Part of the program was NFP, brief overviews. I think understanding the cycle is a wonderful gift...I just don't agree with the presentation. I think it should be called "Fertility Awareness Method" to remove the "control" or planning part out. It's presented as an "approved alternative" to birth control. And that's how the couples perceive it -- we had a question from the audience: "If NFP is supposed to be so effective at preventing pregnancy, why does it seem everyone who teaches it has so many kids? Doesn't that indicate it DOESN'T work as birth control?" 
Learning the NFP we used CCL's book "Art of Natural Family Planning." I still get annoyed that there is SOOO LITTLE written in the book about how to get pregnant! There's only small parts, basically saying to get pregnant, just do the opposite of the rules. Isn't that presenting a NEGATIVE approach?
I prefer the secular approach Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Weschler for a more positive approach...although I can't heartily endorse because 1) it promotes birth control if trying to prevent pregnancy and 2) the lack of God in the approach would make one think you're in control. But with those two in mind, the book is much better at presenting fertility than AONFP.
I always get so long-winded! I'll stop here before I take up another page!
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Bridget
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Please keep going, Jenn. You have so much wisdom....
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Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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Bridget
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Bookswithtea wrote:
| For those who don't struggle with these difficult issues, how did you overcome them?~Books |
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The only time I really struggled with that kind of fear was when Kevin had a heart attack, 3 years ago. I was newly pregnant with number 6. While he was home recovering we talked about maybe limiting our family .
We prayed and both felt strongly that God was calling us to continue to trust Him and be open. God is the author of life and death. He can call any of us at any time. Really, our lives belong to Him.
We got some preassure to use NFP or ABC to stop having babies. In this case, I'm sure NFP would have been a sensible and moral decision. We just felt very strongly that it wasn't what He was asking of us.
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Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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Genevieve
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jenngm67 wrote:
There are two ends to marriage: the unitive and procreative. We have to keep both of these open at all times. If I'm using Natural Family Planning for selfish reasons, I'm elevating the unitive end, and pushing aside the procreative end. With infertility there is the opposite tendency to put the procreative end as the only one, removing the love and unitive side. I merely make our act a babymaking move.
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Jenn & Bridget,
Thank you for explaining this so eloquently. It's not something I've heard people talk about and all you women have obviously put in much thought about this. Too often the message I hear is to use birth control and have fewer kids. So I hardly get to discuss with someone or ask questions. Thank you so very much.
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Rachel May
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jenngm67 wrote:
| I have big beefs with the terms even "Natural Family Planning" -- I think it sounds too much like birth control. It's presented as an "approved alternative" to birth control. |
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I think this is a great point. Don't some methods call it fertility awareness? Maybe Billings? But maybe there is a little "marketing" going on too. You have to hook people at first, get them thinking about it, before they buy into it completely.
jenngm67 wrote:
| we had a question from the audience: "If NFP is supposed to be so effective at preventing pregnancy, why does it seem everyone who teaches it has so many kids? Doesn't that indicate it DOESN'T work as birth control?" |
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I think a good answer to this objection is that many of us become more open to life as we follow God's plan and have more children. You have to remind people of the stats--it's 98% effective--and that those stats mean that MOST of the children born to NFP couples are not "accidents" or some sort of plan mistake. I think Billings lit makes it very nice and clear that if you are not using the plan to avoid pregnancy you ARE using the plan to procreate. There is no "taking a chance."
As for how do you come to peace with the decision to trust God, I'm wondering if everyone can. I believe that of the 7 deadly sins, each of us have some that are more effective temptations than others. So maybe Lust is not my problem, so I can be at peace with the abstinence required for Bill and me to use NFP, but that is where he is attacked. However, maybe Vanity and watching people point at me in the grocery store is where the devil attacks me so I worry more about the next child in those situations.
Bill and I have come a long way in our NFP journey and a few years ago decided that what God really calls all of us to is to trust Him completely with our fertility. We see NFP as a stepping stone towards that decision, but we understand not everyone steps past it! We trusted Him completely with out fertility and are now expecting #6, but with the EXACT SAME SPACING as with the children we used NFP to space. Interesting......
Bill needed non-Catholic books that approached NFP from outside the Church's teaching since he is not Catholic. He loved the Torode's Open Embrace and the Bible and Birth Control which I bought through CCLI.org Even with that great conviction, we are still considering NFP after this child is born. One step forward, two steps back.
Our deacon a few weeks ago told us that he admires our "ministry" which took us by surprise. Who are we ministering to? Our children? The people who don't see large families as a good? That made us take a look at what God has called us to do and work harder to be effective witnesses in public. I try to make sure the kids look extra nice in public, that I have my hair and makeup done, that I am being soft spoken and loving and listening and keeping everyone safe and behaving well....the list goes on and on. But I think of those things before we leave the house so that when other people see us, they don't see dirty faces, mismatched shoes, and a screaming harried mother. My hope is that by seeing a large loving family, like the M....s mentioned above, people will have the same reaction that Cay has. That trusting God is a good thing. That children are a good thing.
Oh my, that went on and on.....
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Rachel
Thomas and Anthony (10), Maria (8), Charles (6), Cecilia (5), James (3), and Joseph (1)
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kingvozzo
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Thank you all for sharing on this thread. It's so good to be reminded of these things.
Rachel May wrote:
| That made us take a look at what God has called us to do and work harder to be effective witnesses in public. I try to make sure the kids look extra nice in public, that I have my hair and makeup done, that I am being soft spoken and loving and listening and keeping everyone safe and behaving well....the list goes on and on. But I think of those things before we leave the house so that when other people see us, they don't see dirty faces, mismatched shoes, and a screaming harried mother. My hope is that by seeing a large loving family, like the M....s mentioned above, people will have the same reaction that Cay has. That trusting God is a good thing. That children are a good thing. |
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Rachel, I think you put this so beautifully. Thank you for that.
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Noreen
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Cay Gibson
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Rachel May wrote:
I try to make sure the kids look extra nice in public, that I have my hair and makeup done, that I am being soft spoken and loving and listening and keeping everyone safe and behaving well....the list goes on and on. But I think of those things before we leave the house so that when other people see us, they don't see dirty faces, mismatched shoes, and a screaming harried mother.
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I don't always succeed in this but I have noticed that when I have the little girls outfitted in something cute and their hair is pulled back in a neat ponytail or bun (a bow always helps with a quick tidy-up job ) people often smile at us or comment what nice looking children I have.
My middle child appreciates comfortable T-shirts. Some are stretched and worn with holes and paint stains. The rule is that these shirts cannot be worn outside the home. I will send him back in the house if he attempts to jump in the car with an untidy shirt on. Why? Because I want our appearance to glorify our values and morals. My oldest ds went through a camouflage, hunting stage (he still adores hunting clothes). But luckily he has tidied up nicely since he turned 18 and got a job. He buys lots and lots of clothes now and I told his father I rather see him spend his money on that than other things that teenagers generally spend their money on.
We live in America. Outter image is what catches the secular eye. It's a case of cleanliness is next to Godliness. People are attracted to our lifestyle and what we value inwardly by what they see on the outside.
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: March 14 2006 at 6:19am | IP Logged
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Bridget wrote:
The only time I really struggled with that kind of fear was when Kevin had a heart attack, 3 years ago. I was newly pregnant with number 6. While he was home recovering we talked about maybe limiting our family .
We prayed and both felt strongly that God was calling us to continue to trust Him and be open. God is the author of life and death. He can call any of us at any time. Really, our lives belong to Him.
We got some preassure to use NFP or ABC to stop having babies. In this case, I'm sure NFP would have been a sensible and moral decision. We just felt very strongly that it wasn't what He was asking of us. |
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I think the reason so many NFP families are larger than average is because NFP really pushes the couple to think about whether or not limiting their family is such a good idea. It may be a bad name (I see that point clearly) but I do think if practiced as its taught, it does move a couple in the direction of openness.
The last time I was pg and thinking about the "what if's" I found myself wondering if many siblings might be *more* of a comfort to the children themselves in the midst of a tragedy. Big brothers and sisters would be there for younger children, and younger children have a way of comforting big people, too.
Maybe I am not the norm in that I worry so much about these kinds of things. Perhaps that's my own biggest sin to overcome.
~Books
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Elizabeth
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Real Learning
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Here's a thought: One would think that a "Grave and Serious" reason to abstain would be the impending death of the father. That is, if you looked at your chart and saw a fertile window but you had magic ball that said your husband would be dead next week, "prudence" would probably dictate that this would be an extremely difficult, even unwise, time to be pregnant.
Three weeks ago, Stephanie woke up to find her 43-year-old husband dead beside her. Last week she called and said, "George left me a gift before he died." She doesn't see this unexpected, unplanned baby any other way. She has three preschool children, a new one on the way and she is newly widowed. But, truthfully, I can't see anything but beauty in the timing of that new baby. And neither can the people close to her.
This is a most extreme example, but it points up how openness in even the most apparentnly grave situations leaves God room to bring beauty to a broken world.
It also begs the question: just what is grave and serious? How can we begin to think ourselves qualified to decide timing or provision? How can we know the ways in which God will allow us to grow? Why do we think it's all about us? How can we know how our baby might touch the life of our spouse or his siblings or his grandparents or the great big world? Isn't the prudent thing to do to allow God to make those decisions and to do nothing which might thwart the will of God?
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Martha
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Bookswithtea wrote:
But honestly, its the tragedies, the what-if's that haunt me when I am overtired and allowing fear to get the best of me. I know that all of this can happen with only 1 or 2 children too. But when I try to imagine one child dying in a hospital with me at their side while my younger children go motherless, or when I try to imagine myself parenting a larger family as a widow, I am scared.
For those who don't struggle with these difficult issues, how did you overcome them? |
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By remembering that those families wouldn't trade a moment without that pain even if they could. I'll take every minute I can get with my dh and dc. I hope those minutes stretch to decades, but even if they don't - I wouldn't regret a moment I've had with them. Even the ones spent in hospitals, broke, or worn out.
In the case of my dh, I have 8 different versions of him to comfort me if anything should happen to him. I have 8 dc to share memories with each other of their dad long after we're both gone and to lean on each other.
What we're really scared of is our personal hardships. It's normal and human, but as christians we're called let Him rule over us - not fear. It's the cross we all must carry.
I wonder if a good part of it is just modern mindset creeping in? Really, if the kids have to do without mom/dad for a time due to another dc being cared for or whatever.. isn't that good?? Doesn't that teach them the value of loving another, self-reliance, self-sacrifice, endurance, ... As much as we love and want to shelter our dc, we must remember that suffering has purpose in life for us all - even the littlest. Sheltering them from suffering isn't a good thing, imo.
There seems to be a cultural mindset that if our dc aren't in a perfect childhood utopia, then we are somehow letting them down as parents. They shouldn't have worries or responsiblities or ever be touched by deep sorrow. I think that's a shame. Those are the very things that form our hearts and souls to love each other fully and compassionately.
Anyhow... just my ramblings before coffee and breakfast!
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Martha
mama to 7 boys & 4 girls
Yes, they're all ours!
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JennGM
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| Posted: March 14 2006 at 7:58am | IP Logged
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Rachel May wrote:
jenngm67 wrote:
| we had a question from the audience: "If NFP is supposed to be so effective at preventing pregnancy, why does it seem everyone who teaches it has so many kids? Doesn't that indicate it DOESN'T work as birth control?" |
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I think a good answer to this objection is that many of us become more open to life as we follow God's plan and have more children. You have to remind people of the stats--it's 98% effective--and that those stats mean that MOST of the children born to NFP couples are not "accidents" or some sort of plan mistake. |
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I understand clearly if you are praying and open to God's will and using NFP, many times more children are the choice. My point, which was so badly made , is that the presentation of NFP is pushed as a birth control method. Dh and I were pondering and pondering how else to present it. We didn't come up with an answer, but we knew that this wasn't the right way.
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: March 14 2006 at 8:19am | IP Logged
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Elizabeth wrote:
| Three weeks ago, Stephanie woke up to find her 43-year-old husband dead beside her. Last week she called and said, "George left me a gift before he died." She doesn't see this unexpected, unplanned baby any other way. |
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This was so evident in the widows and babies of 9-11 as well.
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Making the Leap
